A Few Thoughts About The Game, in no particular order.....

[dave mcbride]

Stafford was taken first overall. Prior to the draft, I don't recall very many (any?) experts suggesting that this would be a reach.

 

Below is a quote from NFL.com's pre-draft analysis of him:

 

*******************

Quick to scan the field and go through his progressions . . .

 

Consistent with excellent accuracy to all levels of the field . . .

 

Has good deep accuracy and trajectory . . .

 

Aggressive, but has developed into a smarter passer over his career and will take what the defense gives him by dropping to his second and third options . . .

************

 

There were some negatives mentioned as well; most notably concerns about his footwork and accuracy on crossing routes. However, the overall picture presented was of a pro-style college QB who'd demonstrated a lot of what you'd want to see from a franchise NFL QB. His ability to process information quickly, and go to his second and third reads, was an especially important part of that evaluation.

Grist for your mill from walterfootball.com (my favorite draft site). Interesting stuff. The analysis of Stafford's weaknesses and strengths has proven to be true.. We'll see about Manuel, but they do say that he certainly has the talent. As for why the Bills drafted him in the first, many thought that the Eagles loved his potential and would take him. I'm guessing they're happy with the QB they have now.

 

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2009mstafford.php

 

http://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2013emanuel.php

[GunnerBill]

I thought Kiko was poor yesterday too. I can't remember which of the Atlanta touchdown runs it was (think it was the first) where he over pursued on a gap. He has done that from time to time in the running game, but this kid is still a good football player who has had a good rookie year. I thought our run defense had been gradually improving in recent games but it was dreaful yesterday.

Edited December 2, 2013 by GunnerBill

[Orton's Arm]

Grist for your mill from walterfootball.com (my favorite draft site). Interesting stuff. The analysis of Stafford's weaknesses and strengths has proven to be true.. We'll see about Manuel, but they do say that he certainly has the talent. As for why the Bills drafted him in the first, many thought that the Eagles loved his potential and would take him. I'm guessing they're happy with the QB they have now.

 

http://walterfootbal...09mstafford.php

 

http://walterfootbal...2013emanuel.php

 

Thanks for the links. From the Stafford profile:

 

**************

Stafford is a top-notch prospect for the NFL. He is a No. 1 pick caliber player. His ability to read defenses along with his natural instincts will allow him to be a starter right off the bat. Stafford's big arm is one that is rare to come by and it helps him to be a big play type of QB. Stafford has a bright future ahead of him and with good NFL coaching he can become an elite type quarterback. Stafford's biggest need of improvement is his mental clock and awareness of the pass rush, with coaching he can develop this and become a franchise quarterback.

**************

 

From Manuel's profile:

 

*********

Manuel's elite arm strength and athleticism gives him all the physical potential an NFL team could ask for. However, he has major issues as a passer and has never developed into a high first-round pick despite the athletic ability to be that good. . . . .

 

NFL sources who watch Florida State closely have told WalterFootball.com that Manuel is not a natural pocket passer. They don't feel he is as accurate as his completion percentage indicates. . . .

 

The scheme that the Seminoles run also came under criticism. The view is that it is extremely basic and does not have Manuel well-prepared to run an NFL offense. Our sources believe that Manuel too often looks to run when his first-read is covered rather than quickly looking to his second and third options. . . .

 

Manuel is going to need a lot of work at the next level on the practice field and in the film room before he is ready to be a starter. There is no doubt that Manuel has the athletic skill set to be a special player, but he will require developmental time in the NFL.

 

It isn't out of the question for a team to reach on him late in the first round or for Manuel to fall to the fourth round. His stock is extremely fluid.

************

Edited December 2, 2013 by Edwards' Arm

[Russ 'Em]

you mean Dareus, half of the defensive front 4 that allowed Steven Jackson and some no name RBs to run all over is today?

 

Gilmore and Williams that allowed yards to rack up for Gonzo and White all game?

 

Searcy is lucky in spots. He's not a starting Safety. Not even close. Other than his lucky ints, he's not very good. Average at best.

 

Byrd... Your still incorrect. He was not drafted by Buddy. He was drafted by Juron and Russ Brandon.

 

Mario. Your missing the point. Nix didn't draft him. He was a FA. A very good one. Considered the best available pass rusher in a long time on the open market. It's not a surprise that Mario would be good. He was the 1st overall draft. Anyone who has ever watched the Texans could tell you that Mario was a good player. Nix didn't find anyone special that we didn't already know about.

 

The fact is, that this year many if these players have played well, or better than expected but it's nothing guaranteed long term either. Just as much as you point out that these players working out well (Williams and Dareus) Anyone can say they are getting lucky. Anyone remember Anderson on Cleveland years ago? Played great one season and then was never heard of after that. Who's to say Dareus and Williams don't regress? Who's to even say they are playing well? Turnovers and sacks are great but that doesn't mean they are doing their job. Dareus is still part of the line that hemorrhage stone of rushing yards. Williams is still part of the secondary that hemorrhages tons of passing yards.

 

Are you really trying to prove your point using Derek Anderson?

 

Look at your display name, are you forgetting who hired, and then was forced to fire that loser Chan Gailey? Buddy Nix brought in FA RT Cornell Green at 2 mill per in 2010, only to see this player benched and cut by week 5 of that year. Name me the great free agents brought in for 2010?

 

This exact same scenario happened this season with LG Colin Brown and his backup at guard Sam Young. both were benched and eventually cut and gone from the team around / after week 5. The guy brought in to be the backup center is now the starting LG, and god forbid any of the starters go down because all that's left is waiver wire players recently picked up. It was probably Nix who assured Whaley that Brown & Young would be serviceable.

 

Buddy Nix and his half-assed philosophy of guards are a dime a dozen has screwed this team time and again, and this year is no different with inferior play at LG.

 

Nix and his stupidity couldn't find a pass rusher in the draft during his tenure with the Bills, so he signed the most expensive FA DE ever. If Nix was a scout that found Byrd, he was also a scout that found Maybin!!This move of Super Mario while good, also handcuffed the team with other free agents and Bills players they could sign. More on this to come next year when he will cost the team 18 mill per.

 

I could go on and on about Buddy Nix and his screw ups, like allowing the move to the 4-3 to 3-4 and back to a 4-3. Then allowing the hiring of DC George Edwards, and Dave Wannstedt. This man wouldn't know a decent HC, DC, OG if they came up and kicked him in his moronic rear end.

 

This franchise regressed from a 6-10 team that was supposedly "not that far away" to a 4-10 team, and his regime never even equaled the stupidity of Dick Jauron, and his 7-9 teams. How many of the 27 draft pick the last 3 years have become pro bowlers? I'm pretty darn happy Nix is history.

 

You do know that our offensive line is a big reason why we are 3rd in the league in rushing and in the top five in completion percentage when blitzed right?

[HurlyBurly51]

1) Leodis McKelvin is a pleasure to watch. I am the very first to admit that I thought little of him before this season. This man can cover.

 

12) I take it back. Gilmore IS a "shutdown corner." His stupid, ill timed penalties, as well as his poor coverage helps to shut down the Bills ability to win football games.

 

15) GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Another bad game for Gilmore - shocker! I don't like seeing my shutdown corners doing 360's in coverage out there There's always next year.

[Russ 'Em]

I thought Kiko was poor yesterday too. I can't remember which of the Atlanta touchdown runs it was (think it was the first) where he over pursued on a gap. He has done that from time to time in the running game, but this kid is still a good football player who has had a good rookie year. I thought our run defense had been gradually improving in recent games but it was dreaful yesterday.

 

The "over pursuit" everyone is talking about wasn't, in fact. Kiko was playing his gap responsibility. Moats had the gap the play went through but got caught up in traffic trying to fight over a guard or center. Yeah Kiko maybe could have made a better play there, but this defense keeps preaching play your own responsibility and don't over extend. You guys do know that the running back we had to defend today was Steven Jackson right? Just because he was hurt for a couple games this year, people forget how good this guy is.

[thebandit27]

You do know that our offensive line is a big reason why we are 3rd in the league in rushing and in the top five in completion percentage when blitzed right?

 

Run...run now while you still can. You are about to be inundated with faulty logic and PFF "Adnvanced Stats" about Colin Brown laced with irreverence in the face of any fact presented that doesn't jive with the predetermined agenda.

 

Save your breath for someone that's reasonable enough to discuss this issue; you can thank me later.

 

 

 

The "over pursuit" everyone is talking about wasn't, in fact. Kiko was playing his gap responsibility. Moats had the gap the play went through but got caught up in traffic trying to fight over a guard or center. Yeah Kiko maybe could have made a better play there, but this defense keeps preaching play your own responsibility and don't over extend. You guys do know that the running back we had to defend today was Steven Jackson right? Just because he was hurt for a couple games this year, people forget how good this guy is.

 

Kiko did overrun his gap on that play; wasn't his best game. That doesn't mean he isn't a very good LB already.

 

And you're right; the other guys get paid too.

[oman128]

EJ is another Cam Newton its going to take another 2 year for him to have this offense running smooth !

[yungmack]

I have been critical of EJ to the point that I've stated the Bills need to very seriously consider drafting a QB in the first round this spring. However, whatever his shortcomings are, EJ was NOT the problem yesterday. When the O puts up 31 points and is in the position to add more at the end of the 4th quarter, how can the critics pound on EJ? Yesterday, the heart of the loss was squarely on the D, on Chandler, on Stevie. And toss in some horrible, horrible calls by the refs near the end. They simply cannot be loose with their D calls for the entire game then suddenly start calling them strict. The calls on A. Williams and Robey were horrifically bad and game killers.

[Russ 'Em]

Pettines D is pretty aggressive. When it works its awesome and people love the sacks/interceptions it creates. When he guesses wrong, holes in the defense get exposed. Jim Leonhard whiffing on the second TD run was a prime example. Steven Jackson saw the match up he wanted to exploit and headed right at leonhard.

[fridge]

Steven Jackson saw the match up he wanted to exploit and headed right at leonhard.

 

Which is shocking, because somehow Leonhard managed to miss him ENTIRELY!

[JohnC]

 

 

Thanks for the links. From the Stafford profile:

 

**************

Stafford is a top-notch prospect for the NFL. He is a No. 1 pick caliber player. His ability to read defenses along with his natural instincts will allow him to be a starter right off the bat. Stafford's big arm is one that is rare to come by and it helps him to be a big play type of QB. Stafford has a bright future ahead of him and with good NFL coaching he can become an elite type quarterback. Stafford's biggest need of improvement is his mental clock and awareness of the pass rush, with coaching he can develop this and become a franchise quarterback.

**************

 

From Manuel's profile:

 

*********

Manuel's elite arm strength and athleticism gives him all the physical potential an NFL team could ask for. However, he has major issues as a passer and has never developed into a high first-round pick despite the athletic ability to be that good. . . . .

 

NFL sources who watch Florida State closely have told WalterFootball.com that Manuel is not a natural pocket passer. They don't feel he is as accurate as his completion percentage indicates. . . .

 

The scheme that the Seminoles run also came under criticism. The view is that it is extremely basic and does not have Manuel well-prepared to run an NFL offense. Our sources believe that Manuel too often looks to run when his first-read is covered rather than quickly looking to his second and third options. . . .

 

Manuel is going to need a lot of work at the next level on the practice field and in the film room before he is ready to be a starter. There is no doubt that Manuel has the athletic skill set to be a special player, but he will require developmental time in the NFL.

 

It isn't out of the question for a team to reach on him late in the first round or for Manuel to fall to the fourth round. His stock is extremely fluid.

************

 

 

Thanks for the links. From the Stafford profile:

 

**************

Stafford is a top-notch prospect for the NFL. He is a No. 1 pick caliber player. His ability to read defenses along with his natural instincts will allow him to be a starter right off the bat. Stafford's big arm is one that is rare to come by and it helps him to be a big play type of QB. Stafford has a bright future ahead of him and with good NFL coaching he can become an elite type quarterback. Stafford's biggest need of improvement is his mental clock and awareness of the pass rush, with coaching he can develop this and become a franchise quarterback.

**************

 

From Manuel's profile:

 

*********

Manuel's elite arm strength and athleticism gives him all the physical potential an NFL team could ask for. However, he has major issues as a passer and has never developed into a high first-round pick despite the athletic ability to be that good. . . . .

 

NFL sources who watch Florida State closely have told WalterFootball.com that Manuel is not a natural pocket passer. They don't feel he is as accurate as his completion percentage indicates. . . .

 

The scheme that the Seminoles run also came under criticism. The view is that it is extremely basic and does not have Manuel well-prepared to run an NFL offense. Our sources believe that Manuel too often looks to run when his first-read is covered rather than quickly looking to his second and third options. . . .

 

Manuel is going to need a lot of work at the next level on the practice field and in the film room before he is ready to be a starter. There is no doubt that Manuel has the athletic skill set to be a special player, but he will require developmental time in the NFL.

 

It isn't out of the question for a team to reach on him late in the first round or for Manuel to fall to the fourth round. His stock is extremely fluid.

************

 

The WaltersFootball evaluation you cited is a terrific evaluation of him as a prospect. What made him appealing were his pysical tools and his personality and character traits. That's the essence of why he was such an intriguing prospect and also a risky prospect. Not one qb prospect in last year's draft was a clean prospect. In all probability no qb prospect in this year's draft is a clean (guaranteed) prospect. The best qb I have seen this year in the college ranks is FSU's Winston. He is not eligible to enter the draft this year and he has some serious legal issues hovering over him.

 

Andrew Luck is a once in a generation qb. So let's not bother using him as a template to compare qbs to. Russell Wilson is another special prospect in that his on the field maturity is already at an elite level. Kaepernick/Griffin/Newton/Foles were not instantly finished products. All of them are undergoing the challenges of learning how to play. That's the frustrating nature of the learning curve that can't be avoided. Since you can't avoid it my recommendation to you is don't allow yourself to be spooked to the point of prematurely pulling the plug on a prospect. The irony that you haven't stated is that the struggles that EJ is going through are the same struggles that other future qb prospects are going to endure. Why start the developmental process and then start the same process with another fresher prospect??? That makes no sense to me.

 

Next offseason the Bills shouldn't use a high draft pick for another qb. In my view that would be foolish. What they need to do is do everything they can to put EJ in a position to succeed. They need to bolster the OL and they need to acquire a playmaking TE. The model for qb development that we should copy is the model that the Steelers used when they drafted Roethlisberger. They had a terrific OL and emphasized the running game and kept the pressure off of their raw qb. Steadily Big Ben got better and better to the point that he is now bordering on being an elite qb.

 

If you put things in perspective you have to acknowledge that EJ has shown enough ability to allow you to think that he can be a franchise qb. The inconsistency he is exhibiting is the norm for young qbs. Is he going to be an elite qb? Absolutely not! He doesn't have the natural impeccable accuracy that those types of special qbs possess.

 

This organization has no choice other than place their chips on the qb they brought to the table. Gambles pay off if you play the cards you are holding; not if you too soon throw the cards on table and walk away. If you want guarantees then you shouldn't have walked into the casino,

[JPS]

When a player often comes up small at big moments, he is a small player. SJ is a small player.

I love this post. Perfect!

[Orton's Arm]

The WaltersFootball evaluation you cited is a terrific evaluation of him as a prospect. What made him appealing were his pysical tools and his personality and character traits. That's the essence of why he was such an intriguing prospect and also a risky prospect. Not one qb prospect in last year's draft was a clean prospect. In all probability no qb prospect in this year's draft is a clean (guaranteed) prospect. The best qb I have seen this year in the college ranks is FSU's Winston. He is not eligible to enter the draft this year and he has some serious legal issues hovering over him.

 

Andrew Luck is a once in a generation qb. So let's not bother using him as a template to compare qbs to. Russell Wilson is another special prospect in that his on the field maturity is already at an elite level. Kaepernick/Griffin/Newton/Foles were not instantly finished products. All of them are undergoing the challenges of learning how to play. That's the frustrating nature of the learning curve that can't be avoided. Since you can't avoid it my recommendation to you is don't allow yourself to be spooked to the point of prematurely pulling the plug on a prospect. The irony that you haven't stated is that the struggles that EJ is going through are the same struggles that other future qb prospects are going to endure. Why start the developmental process and then start the same process with another fresher prospect??? That makes no sense to me.

 

Next offseason the Bills shouldn't use a high draft pick for another qb. In my view that would be foolish. What they need to do is do everything they can to put EJ in a position to succeed. They need to bolster the OL and they need to acquire a playmaking TE. The model for qb development that we should copy is the model that the Steelers used when they drafted Roethlisberger. They had a terrific OL and emphasized the running game and kept the pressure off of their raw qb. Steadily Big Ben got better and better to the point that he is now bordering on being an elite qb.

 

If you put things in perspective you have to acknowledge that EJ has shown enough ability to allow you to think that he can be a franchise qb. The inconsistency he is exhibiting is the norm for young qbs. Is he going to be an elite qb? Absolutely not! He doesn't have the natural impeccable accuracy that those types of special qbs possess.

 

This organization has no choice other than place their chips on the qb they brought to the table. Gambles pay off if you play the cards you are holding; not if you too soon throw the cards on table and walk away. If you want guarantees then you shouldn't have walked into the casino,

 

> They need to bolster the OL and they need to acquire a playmaking TE.

 

Granted. But the Bills will probably lose at least two more games (Tampa Bay and New England), with additional losses possible. They'll likely have a top-10 pick. You don't use a pick like that on an OG or even a TE.

 

> Steadily Big Ben got better and better to the point that he is now bordering on being an elite qb.

 

The Jets used a similar model with Mark Sanchez. What you've described works great when you've chosen the right QB. If you start off with the assumption that Manuel is the right quarterback, everything you've written flows naturally. But the only way I could convince myself to share in that assumption would be to turn a blind eye to the things he hasn't shown. Or to pretend that most QBs can learn those things if given sufficient development time.

 

> He doesn't have the natural impeccable accuracy that those types of special qbs possess.

 

Agreed. In that sense he's similar to Fitz. Manuel's physical tools are worlds better than Fitz's. On the other hand, Fitz was very good at quickly and accurately processing large amounts of on-field information. There is no reason other than hope to believe that Manuel will develop a similar ability in the NFL, given that he showed no signs of it in college. Manuel's most likely ceiling is roughly at Fitz's level; with both quarterbacks possessing similar levels of accuracy, and with Manuel's physical tools offsetting Fitz's advantage in information processing.

 

> This organization has no choice other than place their chips on the qb they brought to the table.

 

On the contrary: they do have a choice. There is no rule against taking first round QBs two years in a row. If anyone within the organization questions the strategy, the response could be, "a typical first round QB chosen outside the top 5 has a 30% chance of working out. It's absolutely essential to get the QB position nailed down, so we're giving ourselves two chances to do that. Besides, we think the world of [QB X]."

[K-9]

> They need to bolster the OL and they need to acquire a playmaking TE.

 

Granted. But the Bills will probably lose at least two more games (Tampa Bay and New England), with additional losses possible. They'll likely have a top-10 pick. You don't use a pick like that on an OG or even a TE.

 

> Steadily Big Ben got better and better to the point that he is now bordering on being an elite qb.

 

The Jets used a similar model with Mark Sanchez. What you've described works great when you've chosen the right QB. If you start off with the assumption that Manuel is the right quarterback, everything you've written flows naturally. But the only way I could convince myself to share in that assumption would be to turn a blind eye to the things he hasn't shown. Or to pretend that most QBs can learn those things if given sufficient development time.

 

Other than consistency, which is chiefly a function of experience, please tell us what he hasn't shown?

 

Let me guess: mental bandwidth?

 

Onward, Christian soldier. The Knights Templar would be proud.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Orton's Arm]

Other than consistency, which is chiefly a function of experience, please tell us what he hasn't shown?

 

Let me guess: mental bandwidth?

 

Onward, Christian soldier. The Knights Templar would be proud.

 

GO BILLS!!!

You are supposedly one of the more knowledgeable people here. If that's true, why is it that your posts typically contribute zero or negative amounts of insight or wisdom to any given discussion?

[K-9]

You are supposedly one of the more knowledgeable people here. If that's true, why is it that your posts typically contribute zero or negative amounts of insight or wisdom to any given discussion?

 

I don't think your posts on this particular subject merit much insight. Especially when you pull things out of the air and attempt to make it into whole cloth.

 

Why is it you avoid answering my requests for additional insight from you? I asked for your explanation on how to develop two franchise QBs simultaneously and you didn't bother to get back on that. I ask for an expansion on what you haven't seen from EJ Manuel other than consistency, and I am met, yet again, by your incessant and tired stock response of being a poster that doesn't add "insight."

 

You pronounced Manuel a bust six games into his career. One that has been interrupted twice by injury and extended absence from the field play. And you have the nerve call out others for lack of insight? Give me a break.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[JohnC]

 

 

> They need to bolster the OL and they need to acquire a playmaking TE.

 

Granted. But the Bills will probably lose at least two more games (Tampa Bay and New England), with additional losses possible. They'll likely have a top-10 pick. You don't use a pick like that on an OG or even a TE.

 

I didn't suggest that they should use a first round pick on an OG or even TE. There is also a free agent market to draw from for the guard position. You can get a veteran competent guard who is solid instead of relying on bargain basement and bottom feeding talent. I wouldn't be adverse to using a first round pick on an OT. Pears is nothing more than pedestrian. If there was a dynamic TE prospect I would have no problem trading down and taking an impact TE.

 

> Steadily Big Ben got better and better to the point that he is now bordering on being an elite qb.

 

The Jets used a similar model with Mark Sanchez. What you've described works great when you've chosen the right QB. If you start off with the assumption that Manuel is the right quarterback, everything you've written flows naturally. But the only way I could convince myself to share in that assumption would be to turn a blind eye to the things he hasn't shown. Or to pretend that most QBs can learn those things if given sufficient development time.

 

You have made a determination that I'm not ready to make. Atlanta gave up on Farvre (for a variety of reasons) after his first year. This qb with little bandwith led his team to a SB championship. He is going to be in the HOF. Very often patiece is a virture.

 

> He doesn't have the natural impeccable accuracy that those types of special qbs possess.

 

Agreed. In that sense he's similar to Fitz. Manuel's physical tools are worlds better than Fitz's. On the other hand, Fitz was very good at quickly and accurately processing large amounts of on-field information. There is no reason other than hope to believe that Manuel will develop a similar ability in the NFL, given that he showed no signs of it in college. Manuel's most likely ceiling is roughly at Fitz's level; with both quarterbacks possessing similar levels of accuracy, and with Manuel's physical tools offsetting Fitz's advantage in information processing.

 

Cam Newton doesn't fit your bandwith paradigm but he was the frist player taken in the draft, and he is currently exhibiting a judicious approach to qbing that your bandwith theory can't explain.

 

> This organization has no choice other than place their chips on the qb they brought to the table.

 

On the contrary: they do have a choice. There is no rule against taking first round QBs two years in a row. If anyone within the organization questions the strategy, the response could be, "a typical first round QB chosen outside the top 5 has a 30% chance of working out. It's absolutely essential to get the QB position nailed down, so we're giving ourselves two chances to do that. Besides, we think the world of [QB X]."

 

I'm very aware of your thoughts are on this issue. But do you really believe that this organization is going to draft another qb in the first round next year?

[Orton's Arm]

I don't think your posts on this particular subject merit much insight. Especially when you pull things out of the air and attempt to make it into whole cloth.

 

Why is it you avoid answering my requests for additional insight from you? I asked for your explanation on how to develop two franchise QBs simultaneously and you didn't bother to get back on that. I ask for an expansion on what you haven't seen from EJ Manuel other than consistency, and I am met, yet again, by your incessant and tired stock response of being a poster that doesn't add "insight."

 

You pronounced Manuel a bust six games into his career. One that has been interrupted twice by injury and extended absence from the field play. And you have the nerve call out others for lack of insight? Give me a break.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

> Why is it you avoid answering my requests for additional insight from you?

 

Because you are not the kind of person with whom I enjoy having discussions. Because I know that if I did try to have a reasonable discussion with you, you'd just roll your eyes at any opinion with which you disagreed; while offering no contradiction beyond your own, unsupported opinion. Because the question you asked me was immediately followed by the mocking words "Onward Christian soldier." Because the question you'd asked had already been addressed earlier in this thread. Need I go on, or do you get the hint?

[K-9]

> Why is it you avoid answering my requests for additional insight from you?

 

Because you are not the kind of person with whom I enjoy having discussions. Because I know that if I did try to have a reasonable discussion with you, you'd just roll your eyes at any opinion with which you disagreed; while offering no contradiction beyond your own, unsupported opinion. Because the question you asked me was immediately followed by the mocking words "Onward Christian soldier." Because the question you'd asked had already been addressed earlier in this thread. Need I go on, or do you get the hint?

 

Bullschit. My posting history here suggest otherwise. I've disagreed with countless opinions around here over the years and have benefitted greatly from different points of view.

 

Echoing others' assertion that you are on an anti-Manuel crusade is mocking? OK.

 

PS - can't find your "answers" to my questions anywhere. as I suspected, you didn't answer them at all.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited December 2, 2013 by K-9