Philly McButterpants Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 And the Sex Pistols go sailing down the Thames again . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 don't be too sure of that. i would be greatly disappointed if that happened. it would go entirely against the grain of everything they stood for and against. Rush reflects the canadian mentality, overjoyed to be recognized. the 'mats have been and remain an entirely contrarian different beast, from pissing off lorne michaels -- another canadian -- to pissing off nearly every record executive during a fall-down-drunk show at CBGBs, to, more recently, Paul wearing a canadiens jersey for the encore in toronto. in the spirit of rock and roll -- and not the spirit of radio, which did more for rush than ever recognizing the 'mats -- a big fat finger in the air is how any potential induction should be greeted. respect? the 'mats have it. they don't need some silly honor in some fancy facade on the shores of lake erie for mere validation. jw So what I'm getting here is that not only does their music suck (IMO) but they're also a bunch of whiny little bitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5 Wide Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 "Not selling out to the mainstream" is such a cliche now. Just because you were one of the pioneers of the anti-industry mentality, doesn't mean you're shtick isn't played out. The true genius in any art is in the content and the delivery, not the interpretation and the subsequent honors. Accepting recognition for your work isn't selling out, even if its from people you never intended to influence. Going into the RR HOF along the path they have taken is if anything a bigger honor, as it shows they didn't need to play by the rules to be influential to music lovers. There's a difference between needing validation and simply acknowledging an achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 All the same arguments many die hard Rush fans (myself included) used as to why Rush should snub the Hall once they got in. In the end when Geddy Lee was asked about the possibility of snubbing the Hall his response was "That's not a very gracious way to respond to an honor".....and he's right. If the Replacements get in, they will attend and be inducted by a band or someone that they respect, play in the jam and enjoy the experience. I've never been a Rush fan (though I just picked up their greatest hits album and 2112 on sale, and I'm realizing that Neil Peart is a goddamned genius). But I've always respected them as some of the best musicians in rock who are far too busy being concerned about their craft to worry about being pretentious divas, who take genuine enjoyment out of what they're doing, and who are a general class act all-around. Lee's quote just confirms that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 anyone who says they don't want recognition for the job/craft etc they chose is full of stojan...i don't care how anti-establishment you are. if they didn't want the accolades/respect/recognition they would give their products/service/albums away and perform for free...it may not be what drives someone, but we all need some sort of stroking for what we have worked so hard at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 anyone who says they don't want recognition for the job/craft etc they chose is full of stojan...i don't care how anti-establishment you are. if they didn't want the accolades/respect/recognition they would give their products/service/albums away and perform for free...it may not be what drives someone, but we all need some sort of stroking for what we have worked so hard at... Doesn't mean you want the stroking from anyone and everyone. Sometimes it just means so much more coming from someone you respect and if, for example here, they don't respect the opinion of the rrhof then it may be more insulting than stroking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 don't be too sure of that. i would be greatly disappointed if that happened. it would go entirely against the grain of everything they stood for and against. Rush reflects the canadian mentality, overjoyed to be recognized. the 'mats have been and remain an entirely contrarian different beast, from pissing off lorne michaels -- another canadian -- to pissing off nearly every record executive during a fall-down-drunk show at CBGBs, to, more recently, Paul wearing a canadiens jersey for the encore in toronto. in the spirit of rock and roll -- and not the spirit of radio, which did more for rush than ever recognizing the 'mats -- a big fat finger in the air is how any potential induction should be greeted. respect? the 'mats have it. they don't need some silly honor in some fancy facade on the shores of lake erie for mere validation. jw Reminds me, the other day, I saw a youtube clip of John Lydon on the Conan show, from about 7 or 8 years ago...he was promoting his biography...one of the first things Conan says, "you aren't afraid to be be opinionated..who were some of the bands you hated when the Pistols were coming up?" With no hesitation, Lydon rattles off "Emerson Lake and Plamer, Yes...the Allman Brothers"...the crowd booed him pretty loudly...ends up the Allman Brothers were scheduled guests that night... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Reminds me, the other day, I saw a youtube clip of John Lydon on the Conan show, from about 7 or 8 years ago...he was promoting his biography...one of the first things Conan says, "you aren't afraid to be be opinionated..who were some of the bands you hated when the Pistols were coming up?" With no hesitation, Lydon rattles off "Emerson Lake and Plamer, Yes...the Allman Brothers"...the crowd booed him pretty loudly...ends up the Allman Brothers were scheduled guests that night... love that. too funny. and here's what makes this year's Rock and Roll Hall of fame list of inductees mostly upside-down in how it's being judged and based on talent and influence. Nirvana, influenced by the replacements, is regarded a sure bet, while the replacements are not, and the Pixies haven't been nominated. ll cool j, an actor, is regarded a sure bet by some, when NWA, a far more influential rap outfit, is regarded a longshot. linda ronstadt over Link Wray? the argument i pose here is the rock and roll hall of fame is a skewed pyramid for a mass of great, good and mediocre and continues down the road of the grammy's, gauging greatness as being popularity's near equal. how else can that not be, when they open up the voting to the fans? that's why the replacements don't belong in this shill palace. there's a finger-in-the-air mentality of rock and roll that seems to be missing at the hall of fame and its mostly safe and whelming list of inductees. and it's the f-the-man mentality that is mostly missing with the hall of fame itself, because of what it is: a tourist attraction pretending to be something more. rock and roll hall of fames by their nature are counter-intuitive to the art form they pretend to represent. rather than a fancy building, it would be more apt to put it in a garage somewhere in Minneapolis, or the tiny Sun Studio in Memphis, or remake something out of CBGBs in NYC. but not this, not this clean, sterile, antiseptic structure that stands as a flat-note peon to soft hyperbole. jw Edited October 19, 2013 by john wawrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) i'm gonna look it up, and i consider myself pretty knowledgeable about music, but I am drawing a complete blank on Link Wray...i hope i don't feel stupid once i look 'them' up... ..ok, looked him up. I probably know some of his work, but I gotta admit, I've never heard of him love that. too funny. and here's what makes this year's Rock and Roll Hall of fame list of inductees mostly upside-down in how it's being judged and based on talent and influence. Nirvana, influenced by the replacements, is regarded a sure bet, while the replacements are not, and the Pixies haven't been nominated. ll cool j, an actor, is regarded a sure bet by some, when NWA, a far more influential rap outfit, is regarded a longshot. linda ronstadt over Link Wray? the argument i pose here is the rock and roll hall of fame is a skewed pyramid for a mass of great, good and mediocre and continues down the road of the grammy's, gauging greatness as being popularity's near equal. how else can that not be, when they open up the voting to the fans? that's why the replacements don't belong in this shill palace. there's a finger-in-the-air mentality of rock and roll that seems to be missing at the hall of fame and its mostly safe and whelming list of inductees. and it's the f-the-man mentality that is mostly missing with the hall of fame itself, because of what it is: a tourist attraction pretending to be something more. rock and roll hall of fames by their nature are counter-intuitive to the art form they pretend to represent. rather than a fancy building, it would be more apt to put it in a garage somewhere in Minneapolis, or the tiny Sun Studio in Memphis, or remake something out of CBGBs in NYC. but not this, not this clean, sterile, antiseptic structure that stands as a flat-note peon to soft hyperbole. jw Edited October 19, 2013 by The Poojer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 anyone who says they don't want recognition for the job/craft etc they chose is full of stojan...i don't care how anti-establishment you are. if they didn't want the accolades/respect/recognition they would give their products/service/albums away and perform for free...it may not be what drives someone, but we all need some sort of stroking for what we have worked so hard at... Doing if for free is a bit much. If they were 100% against the establishment they would have not used an established record label. I looked them up and they used Twin Tone and Sire Records. If you're that much against "the man" form your own label. The Grateful Dead formed their own label Grateful Dead Records. They did so not to be anti-establishment but to have more control over their artistic content. There are plenty of bands that formed their own label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 "Not selling out to the mainstream" is such a cliche now. Just because you were one of the pioneers of the anti-industry mentality, doesn't mean you're shtick isn't played out. The true genius in any art is in the content and the delivery, not the interpretation and the subsequent honors. Accepting recognition for your work isn't selling out, even if its from people you never intended to influence. Going into the RR HOF along the path they have taken is if anything a bigger honor, as it shows they didn't need to play by the rules to be influential to music lovers. There's a difference between needing validation and simply acknowledging an achievement. my god. not selling out to the mainstream is only cliche if you say it and don't do it. the 'mats built their reputation the hard way, by not selling out, in a variety of ways. their signing to a major label nearly happened by accident because of how they self-imploded on stage in front of numerous record executives. to not sell out is to not sell out, and yet you seem to think that there is something "cliche" about that. there are those who don't sell out, and you can tell that by their actions. what makes that so cliche? jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Reminds me, the other day, I saw a youtube clip of John Lydon on the Conan show, from about 7 or 8 years ago...he was promoting his biography...one of the first things Conan says, "you aren't afraid to be be opinionated..who were some of the bands you hated when the Pistols were coming up?" With no hesitation, Lydon rattles off "Emerson Lake and Plamer, Yes...the Allman Brothers"...the crowd booed him pretty loudly...ends up the Allman Brothers were scheduled guests that night... Gregg's response. There's nothing like a good set of fisticuffs. The ABB were known to throw it down. Sorry about the ad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u3I8HtDFds my god. not selling out to the mainstream is only cliche if you say it and don't do it. the 'mats built their reputation the hard way, by not selling out, in a variety of ways. their signing to a major label nearly happened by accident because of how they self-imploded on stage in front of numerous record executives. to not sell out is to not sell out, and yet you seem to think that there is something "cliche" about that. there are those who don't sell out, and you can tell that by their actions. what makes that so cliche? jw But do you think accepting an induction to the RRHOF is selling out? I don't. Edited October 19, 2013 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Gregg's response. There's nothing like a good set of fisticuffs. The ABB were known to throw it down. Sorry about the ad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u3I8HtDFds But do you think accepting an induction to the RRHOF is selling out? I don't. On the fence - would you agree that being inducted into the "chef hall of fame" with guy fieri, the head chef from Taco Bell and rachel ray, a bartender, and a farmer and cooking an allstar meal together for the banquet would be a bit different than one run and maintained by the best chefs and with clear culinary vision and standing next to Thomas Keller, Leah chase, and simply being honored? The rrhof has lost their vision and is often bowing to the masses instead of picking with a purpose - they then parade you around the stage. Some years better, some years worse but I could certainly see how you wouldn't get the same answer across the board. Edited October 19, 2013 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 On the fence - would you agree that being inducted into the "chef hall of fame" with guy fieri, the head chef from Taco Bell and rachel ray, a bartender, and a farmer and cooking an allstar meal together for the banquet would be a bit different than one run and maintained by the best chefs and with clear culinary vision and standing next to Thomas Keller, Leah chase, and simply being honored? The rrhof has lost their vision and is often bowing to the masses instead of picking with a purpose - they then parade you around the stage. Some years better, some years worse but I could certainly see how you wouldn't get the same answer across the board. Different but still an honor. It's not really an appropriate analogy. Chefs typically aren't rogue or anti-establishment and are usually a very humble lot. We realize that anyone involved in food is part of the "brotherhood". I'm pretty sure Thomas Keller would have ZERO problem cooking a HOF dinner with a guy from Taco Bell. Another analogy would be my current profession. Would I be happy side by side with Suze Orman? Absolutely. Though I disagree with much of what she says she did get the average person thinking about their finances which is a good thing. Musicians are also part of a brotherhood. The Replacements need to look at not the Hall but the members which I imagine they will. Music is very subjective, we've beaten that horse to death but it's created for one reason and one reason only. To please the people that like it and I think any musician will respect other musicians regardless of how crappy they are. Anytime you are recognized for your contributions to anything it should be accepted as an honor regardless of who is bestowing that recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 your response reminds me of my current favorite commercial....2 worlds colliding and they both look like they couldn't be happier in the presence of each other... http://youtu.be/Ny5R5CPtTqo Different but still an honor. It's not really an appropriate analogy. Chefs typically aren't rogue or anti-establishment and are usually a very humble lot. We realize that anyone involved in food is part of the "brotherhood". I'm pretty sure Thomas Keller would have ZERO problem cooking a HOF dinner with a guy from Taco Bell. Another analogy would be my current profession. Would I be happy side by side with Suze Orman? Absolutely. Though I disagree with much of what she says she did get the average person thinking about their finances which is a good thing. Musicians are also part of a brotherhood. The Replacements need to look at not the Hall but the members which I imagine they will. Music is very subjective, we've beaten that horse to death but it's created for one reason and one reason only. To please the people that like it and I think any musician will respect other musicians regardless of how crappy they are. Anytime you are recognized for your contributions to anything it should be accepted as an honor regardless of who is bestowing that recognition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 But do you think accepting an induction to the RRHOF is selling out? I don't. you miss my point. i am among several who don't recognize the shill palace in cleveland as a rock and roll hall of fame. it's not. it's an applebees version of a hard rock cafe. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) you miss my point. i am among several who don't recognize the shill palace in cleveland as a rock and roll hall of fame. it's not. it's an applebees version of a hard rock cafe. jw I get your point but you obviously didn't get, see or agree with mine regarding accepting any accolades regardless of who is giving them. If I were to join any HOF is wouldn't be so much as who ran that hall but the previous and future members that I was with. And if they think they're too good, too anti-establishment, too hip, too cool or whatever to be join those other musicians then !@#$ them. I know that's exactly why you feel they shouldn't accept because that's who they are and that's what should be expected of them. But if you can't put that aside for one night and say "hey thanks" well to me that's just childish. It's not like they're expected to go on a year long world tour promoting the hall. Accept your award, say thanks, play some music and move on. Edited October 19, 2013 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 ... - they then parade you around the stage. That's my beef with the Hall, they do the inductions in NYC, not Cleveland. Other halls do their inductions in the location of their hall, even tiny little Canastota with the Boxing Hall Of Fame, yet the R&RHOF goes out of state for their induction ceremony. EDIT: If you've never seen the Boxing Hall Of Fame, here's a picture from Google Streetview... http://goo.gl/maps/yWRfW The brown building is the Hall, the white building is where they do the inductions. You could easily fit both buildings inside Ralph Wilson Stadium and still have room to walk around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 I get your point but you obviously didn't get, see or agree with mine regarding accepting any accolades regardless of who is giving them. If I were to join any HOF is wouldn't be so much as who ran that hall but the previous and future members that I was with. And if they think they're too good, too anti-establishment, too hip, too cool or whatever to be join those other musicians then !@#$ them. I know that's exactly why you feel they shouldn't accept because that's who they are and that's what should be expected of them. But if you can't put that aside for one night and say "hey thanks" well to me that's just childish. It's not like they're expected to go on a year long world tour promoting the hall. Accept your award, say thanks, play some music and move on. oh, pardon me. i was mistaken, giving you the benefit of the doubt when suggesting you might have missed my point. it's quite evident you simply don't understand rock and roll. my bad on that. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) oh, pardon me. i was mistaken, giving you the benefit of the doubt when suggesting you might have missed my point. it's quite evident you simply don't understand rock and roll. my bad on that. jw So John, why don't you go ahead and explain rock and roll to me like you have to explain the Replacements to your friends. I'm always up for learning something new. BTW if you feel that R&R is something that needs to or expects to be understood just shows that you're the one that doesn't understand R&R. Edited October 20, 2013 by Chef Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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