"The Culture of Failure"

[mrags]

^^^^^^^^

 

You know, the times I'm quietest during a game is when we score.

 

Because I know the crowd doesn't need my "help" at this point and I'm satisfied to be happy within (and let my vocal chords recover).

 

As you know, I sat in the first row upper deck in the first half and at the 40 yard line in row 21 on the Bills sideline in the 2nd half.

 

In the upper deck there were a lot of younger fans who didn't seem to understand the game and when to make noise.

 

In the lower bowl, there were a bunch of older "tired" fans who wanted us to sit down so they could watch the game.

 

As I said upthread, I'm never satisfied with the crowd noise level at the stadium but I don't think it has anything to do with a "culture of losing" that's making the fans quieter.

ill agree with all that but the end. I really believe most of the stadium knew what was going to happen when the Pats got the ball back. It's why it got really quiet. It's why people left. It's just a fact. We were deflated because Many of us knew we would blow it.

 

I know I did. Of course I hoped we wouldn't. But deep down, I knew we would. So my opinion alone makes Buckys column correct. And I'm about as die hard as they get on Sunday.

 

^^^^^^^^^^

 

Maybe I'm different from others but personally I don't let anything that happened more than a year ago affect how I cheer during a football game.

and I guess this is about as close as I get to "show me the baby" it only happens in times like Sunday when our backs are against the wall and we've shown over and over that we don't rise to the occasion.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

^^^^^^^^

 

Bucky's argument is that the Bills fans not being loud enough for him at the end of the 3rd quarter is proof for his belief.

 

If he were talking about fans streaming for the exits on New England's last drive, he'd actually have an argument.

[mrags]

 

 

It's funny how some TBD posters have this binary attitude: we're either pining for "feel good moral victory" pieces and crapping our drawers for anything that doesn't praise the team, or we have to be down with craptastic "fighting a losing battle with culture of failure" pieces which (per eyewitnesses) inaccurately describe the actions of a rook QB and the crowd during the 1st game of the season. This wonderful binary attitude allows them to dismiss and condemn anything that they disagree with.

 

How about this: most of us do just fine with accurate and reasoned criticism, as can be seen by non-reaction to a number of articles that fairly describe negative aspects of the team's play on Sunday, and positive response to pieces on this board like "a few thoughts on the game in no particular order". Critique is fine. But our sense of fair play and accuracy is outraged by an article that puffs an inaccurate description of the crowd and the promising rookie into a sweeping negative generalization? That article is a prime example of a loser mentality on the part of the writer, and should get lost.

i wasn't outraged. I personally though Bucky was pretty close to spot on.

[mrags]

^^^^^^^^

 

Bucky's argument is that the Bills fans not being loud enough for him at the end of the 3rd quarter is proof for his belief.

 

If he were talking about fans streaming for the exits on New England's last drive, he'd actually have an argument.

i don't think his argument was that we should have been screaming at that time. He may have been off in that part. I don't think it should be in the argument about how EJ had to get us pumped. I don't think that's the argument at all. It was at the end of a quarter. The crowd is NEVER LOUD when the end of a quarter comes. It's more of a time for rest than anything. It's a break in the game.

 

If that's what we're all arguing about then ill say Bucky is wrong. If that's the way everyone took that article, then I'm wrong for not thinking that way. I just don't think that point in the game is what he's trying to say in his article. I think he means the game as a whole but brings to attention 1 specific point in the game for reference. Maybe he's wrong on that. Maybe he was wrong for trying to do that. That's fine.

 

My whole argument is that the crowd was absolutely deflated at the end. Many knew it wouldn't end well. At the same time, the crowd may have been loud, it really should have been much louder considering all that was involved.

[bills44]

 

 

Bucky never talked about the end of the game.

 

He was trying to construct an argument that EJ needed to implore the Bills fans to be louder at the end of the 3rd quarter.

 

The Bills were on offense when the 3rd quarter ended.

 

I'm not defending idiot fans who leave early when they should be contributing to crowd noise but you're wrong about Bucky.

 

It was a very poignant moment, per the Buckster

[Hapless Bills Fan]

i wasn't outraged. I personally though Bucky was pretty close to spot on.

 

Then I'm not talking about you, obviously. Unless you have some kind of sweeping generalization to share about those who disagree with you (of which I am one, clearly)

[Just Jack]

BTW, I hadn't read Promo's topic until a few minutes ago and didn't realize it's the same topic ...

 

merged.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

i don't think his argument was that we should have been screaming at that time. He may have been off in that part. I don't think it should be in the argument about how EJ had to get us pumped. I don't think that's the argument at all. It was at the end of a quarter. The crowd is NEVER LOUD when the end of a quarter comes. It's more of a time for rest than anything. It's a break in the game.

 

mrags, that was exactly Bucky's argument, however. He specifically started his article - the lead paragraph which we all learn is where you set out your theme - using the end of the 3rd quarter and EJ pumping the crowd as a specific "poignant" example of the Bills "losing the battle with the culture of failure"

 

 

If that's what we're all arguing about then ill say Bucky is wrong. If that's the way everyone took that article, then I'm wrong for not thinking that way. I just don't think that point in the game is what he's trying to say in his article.

 

It's not how we took it, it's what he specifically led off with in the article. If he had a different point, then he wrote the article in a way which made his point very poorly (which was SJBF's conclusion)

 

As others have said, if he'd used the example of fans streaming for the exits while the Pats were driving and we still had the lead - Valid point about a fan expectation of failure, there.

[mrags]

Well. Until somebody confirms with information that is exactly what Buckys point was were all just pissing into the wind.

[bbb]

mrags, that was exactly Bucky's argument, however. He specifically started his article - the lead paragraph which we all learn is where you set out your theme - using the end of the 3rd quarter and EJ pumping the crowd as a specific "poignant" example of the Bills "losing the battle with the culture of failure"

 

Exactly! This was the thing that the whole article was built around.

 

If you watched that press conference that SJ fan linked, he tried to get EJ to say and basically EJ didn't know what he was talking about..............But, he had the article in his head or maybe even typed up already, so he went with it.

 

shallow enthusiasm - my arse

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Well. Until somebody confirms with information that is exactly what Buckys point was were all just pissing into the wind.

 

I think Bucky made his point pretty clearly.

 

He said the lack of crowd noise at the end of the 3rd quarter was indicative of the fans suffering from a culture of failure.

[mrags]

 

 

I think Bucky made his point pretty clearly.

 

He said the lack of crowd noise at the end of the 3rd quarter was indicative of the fans suffering from a culture of failure.

well. He was right. Many fans were in a "wait and see" period IMO. Waiting for us to blow it. Which we did.

[Beerball]

Uh no thats not what Im saying, The new GM and coaching staff will be given their opportunity. Some changes have been made in the scouting department. Overdorf going wouldnt bother me. My whole post was just about this----you want reporters to write something different--simple-----win more than you lose. Because if you dont, instead of the Bills havent made the playoffs in 13 years, the only thing that will change is that number, as in next year it will be the Bills havent made the playoffs in 14 years.

Then why did you write:

You want reporters to write something different? Then do something different as an organization, win more than you lose. Hire a GM who can draft guys who make the pro-bowl first team, better yet draft some HOFers. Hire a coach who can win and who hires a OC and DC who are competant(seems like we've had one or the other but not both for a long time). Manage the salary cap.

[billsfan714]

Then why did you write:

 

I said in a follow up post that this regime will be given their opportunity. Its up to them-Whaley-Marrone-the coaches-the players to win more than they lose. Its up to them to change the culture of losing. What i was pointing out is what needs to change, better coaching, drafting, managaing the cap and play on the field. Again its up to all of those people to change this culture of losing, win more games than you lose. Im not saying they wont, Im pointing out where we have failed in the past and what needs to change.

[bills44]

How does anyone, even the almighty Buckster, know what was going through the minds of fans at the stadium?

 

I sure as **** don't know what the guys 10 rows above me were thinking.

[bbb]

How does anyone, even the almighty Buckster, know what was going through the minds of fans at the stadium?

 

I sure as **** don't know what the guys 10 rows above me were thinking.

 

I do - they were thinking where can I get another beer!

[Dibs]

Bucky never talked about the end of the game.

 

He was trying to construct an argument that EJ needed to implore the Bills fans to be louder at the end of the 3rd quarter.

....

I think Bucky made his point pretty clearly.

 

He said the lack of crowd noise at the end of the 3rd quarter was indicative of the fans suffering from a culture of failure.

 

.....he then went on to suggest that the very same shell-shock type failure attitude was endemic in the players as well.....which is illogical and had me questioning not only his general ability to be rational, but also his motivations for drafting the article in the first place.

[bbb]

 

.....he then went on to suggest that the very same shell-shock type failure attitude was endemic in the players as well.....which is illogical and had me questioning not only his general ability to be rational, but also his motivations for drafting the article in the first place.

 

Esp. after EJ didn't even know what he was talking about!...........He's not rational.

[vincec]

Are you kidding? You don't think this franchise has had a culture of losing for the last 13 years? Did you even read the article, or just the headline? The point of the article is not that Manuel, Marrone et al are failures; his point is that they have to overcome an expectation and acceptance of failure that is embedded in a franchise that has known little else for a generation. He contrasts that with expectations and history in New England. How can you dispute any of it?

This was readily apparent after the New England game last week week many fans seemed happy for a decent performance and encouraging debut for the QB when it was another failure to do what's required to win the game. A stark contrast to NE who had Brady and Amendola put the team on their backs to produce the W even when they generally played poorly.

 

It was encouraging to me to hear some of the players (S Johnson, K Williams) specifically reject that anything good had come from the game. However, I would've liked the coach to address it in the press conference to set a clear expectation for everybody that playing pretty well and losing is not acceptable in any way.

Edited September 14, 2013 by vincec

[Buffaloed in Pa]

While I don't disagree with your comment about cell phones, the seating capacity at the stadium is far smaller than it was during the Super Bowl years.

 

http://en.wikipedia....eating_capacity

Times are a changing, and so is the Ralph. The crowd wasn`t into it,as much as I hoped. The fight a row below me was alittle entertaining though. The mouthy Napoleon Dynamite dude in the Pats jersey was scared to death.