Which past/present players do you suspect/think are a part of the losi

[JPS]

I blame it on Hloti Ngata, Brian Orakpo and AJ Green.

[thebandit27]

Stevie Johnson - The "pernenial losers" and "culture of losing" is perpetuated by snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I'm sure we can all think of several examples such as the MNF Cowboys loss and the MNF Clowns loss as well as Tennessee last year, and who can forget "wide right"? Stevie has been instrumental in 2 such losses in the last 3 years. The Pittsburgh loss in 2010 where he dropped the game winning pass in OT vs a perennial playoff team in their own house. The second was against the Jets in the "shot to the leg/plane crash in EZ" game. A pass hit him in the bread basket in full stride that he may very well have taken in for a go ahead TD but worst case, got us 1st and goal inside the 10 in the last minute of the game. Stevie, carrying on the tradition.

 

Why do you bring these up, but go on to ignore the momentum-swinging TD catches he had in comeback wins against the Raiders and NE, along with the 3 TDs he had in a comeback win against the Bengals?

 

As for the OP, I feel that the old guard is mostly gone, but the one guy I can't believe keeps surviving the regime changes is Bryan Scott.

[bills44]

IMO, pretty much all of the veterans are partly at fault. Yes, even, Fumblin' Free Pass Freddie.

[Storm Front]

Past players I would say are Kelsay, Maybin, McCargo, Mike Williams and Rob Johnson.

 

The only present player I can think of would be Leodis. He was such an over-hyped waste of a draft pick. How is he still on the team?

[FireChan]

Must add that your decision to 'tag' Jackson in this thread is weak.

 

I know, I was tired when I posted this. Hence forgetting the title limit as well.

 

Football, more than any sport, relies on coaching. You could take these so-called loser players and win a SB with the right coaches.

 

PTR

 

I understand that, but I think for some guys, the fire goes out in their career. Like Trent after his concussion.

[tennesseeboy]

^{We have had a losing team for a long time and we're not a winning team until we do better than 8-8. Nobody gets off the hook until that happens, not managers,not coaches and not players. Trying to point fingers at "losers" on a losing team like this isn't going to get us anywhere. We're all losers until we're winners....its a team sport. The sooner we learn this the better.}

[The Big Cat]

i'm adding marcus stroud, only because it's been too long since he's been mentioned

[Luka]

It's Ralph. He relenquishes power, suddenly a competent coach steps in, we have one of our best drafts in franchise history (on paper) and we have a promising young QB under center. I am willing to bet that it isn't a coincednce.

[eme123]

Aaron Schobel

[T master]

I know we always discuss our "pernenial losers" and such when talking about the last decade for the Bills. My question is, who does that constitute still on the active roster? Maybe Fred(not that I believe that)? Or some other players. Was it someone we used to have, i.e. Trentative.

 

I'd like to hear the reasons for your thoughts, even if it is, "I saw them goofing around during a game we were losing."

 

I think a lot of the losing could be attributed to the coaches not knowing how to use the players they had on the roster ..

 

Look at what Harbaugh did in SF with almost the same roster that the year prior to him coming didn't make it to the play offs & didn't play very well .

 

I think we have had some really good talent in B/Lo for a while we just haven't had the coaching staff that knew how to utilize the talent they had to the fullest !!

 

Hopefully Marone can use what he has to win !!

[Best Player Available]

Garrison Sanborn. Dude is content to just sit there and hike the ball and nothing else.

I know, you'd think the dude could at least bring some gatorade to the players during network timeouts.

[reddogblitz]

Why do you bring these up *** (drops vs Steelers and Jets) ***, but go on to ignore the momentum-swinging TD catches he had in comeback wins against the Raiders and NE, along with the 3 TDs he had in a comeback win against the Bengals?

 

As for the OP, I feel that the old guard is mostly gone, but the one guy I can't believe keeps surviving the regime changes is Bryan Scott.

Note: I added the part between the stars to your quote for clarity.

 

I bring those up because another common practice in the long losing stretch is "hard to play, easy to beat" and "find new ways to lose". The 2 drops exemplify this. Do you think they don't?

 

I didn't mention the other stuff for a couple of reasons. One being the thread was about players that perpetuate the culture of losing, or at least that's the way I read it. Another is, while it's great that Stevie did this, this is what I would expect my top WR to do.

Edited August 22, 2013 by reddogblitz

[BillsBytheBay]

This is like throwing darts blindfolded.

[BADOLBILZ]

Why do you bring these up, but go on to ignore the momentum-swinging TD catches he had in comeback wins against the Raiders and NE, along with the 3 TDs he had in a comeback win against the Bengals?

 

As for the OP, I feel that the old guard is mostly gone, but the one guy I can't believe keeps surviving the regime changes is Bryan Scott.

 

Unfortuntately, he has a point about Stevie. He has a history of putting himself above the team. He didn't even mention the Patriots game at the end of 2010 when he had already been fined and warned not to grandstand after a TD and then he STILL couldn't help himself. He is a good player but that was one of the most ridiculous situations I have ever seen involving a Bills player and on-the-field behavior. I personally enjoy TD celebrations and I don't take it personal when a team does it after they score either.....it's a game......entertainment should be fun.......but when you know the rules, you have cost your team in the past and been fined and warned and you still can't stop doing it, it is an issue.

[BADOLBILZ]

Donte Whitner. Worst coverage safety I have ever seen, and i'v seen a lot of them.

 

You can add Mike williams, Aaron Maybin. The complete loss of any value to the team when picked at #1 destroys franchises for years. we're still paying for Maybin, he was arguably the biggest bust in Bills history.

 

Kelsay and Whitner are up at the top. Both are/were serviceable NFL players but they were put in prominent roles here and, astoundingly, in leadership roles at that.

 

When you are trying to turn around a downtrodden franchise you need leaders who can lead by example and actually make a difference on the field and these guys simply couldn't make plays.

 

They are complementary talents. Whitner.....playing behind the best front 7 in the NFL he looked good the last two years. Take away just one of those guys(a healthy Justin Smith) and all of a sudden he is a target. Whitner was drafted to be one of THE MEN on the Bills defense, not the target of opposing offenses.

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

Kyle williams

 

It's Ralph. He relenquishes power, suddenly a competent coach steps in, we have one of our best drafts in franchise history (on paper) and we have a promising young QB under center. I am willing to bet that it isn't a coincednce.

He is 93 years old for crying out loud.i hope ur not serious

[outsidethebox]

Sure, blame the players. It isn't their fault that the FO whiffed, is it? Any player, to be considered part of a "loser mentality" (hope I am capturing the OP's words correctly) then you are saying that the player didn't care about winning. Poor FO decisions and poor coaching don't equate to a player having a "loser mentality."

I don't think Mike Williams cared about winning. Such a big man with such little heart. I am NOT saying he is a loser. He probably is a great guy. He wasn't cut out for football.

[thebandit27]

Note: I added the part between the stars to your quote for clarity.

 

I bring those up because another common practice in the long losing stretch is "hard to play, easy to beat" and "find new ways to lose". The 2 drops exemplify this. Do you think they don't?

 

I didn't mention the other stuff for a couple of reasons. One being the thread was about players that perpetuate the culture of losing, or at least that's the way I read it. Another is, while it's great that Stevie did this, this is what I would expect my top WR to do.

 

Of course the Pittsburgh drop was huge, nobody denies that. As for the Jets game, I remember that game more for 3 things:

 

1) Stevie writing the book on how to beat Revis consistently

2) Our replacement kicker being unable to kick off

3) Our QB air-mailing a wide open Stevie on 3rd and goal at the end of the game

 

It's not that I dismiss the 2 drops, but rather that he's done far more good in his time here than bad.

 

Unfortuntately, he has a point about Stevie. He has a history of putting himself above the team. He didn't even mention the Patriots game at the end of 2010 when he had already been fined and warned not to grandstand after a TD and then he STILL couldn't help himself. He is a good player but that was one of the most ridiculous situations I have ever seen involving a Bills player and on-the-field behavior. I personally enjoy TD celebrations and I don't take it personal when a team does it after they score either.....it's a game......entertainment should be fun.......but when you know the rules, you have cost your team in the past and been fined and warned and you still can't stop doing it, it is an issue.

 

I understand your POV. Yes, he's done some silly things in the past. He's conducted himself far more professionally since getting his new deal.

 

I guess my overall point is that when I think of guys that typify the losing culture, I don't think of the 7th-round WR that rose from practice squad status to arguably the best route-running WR in the NFL. I tend to think of the first round picks that had their cup of coffee in the NFL and disappeared (Mike Williams, Aaron Maybin), the high-motor guys that seemed entirely devoid of play-making ability (Tim Anderson, Chris Kelsay), and the no-name taxi-squad fodder that--defying all football logic--managed to find starting roles on this team (Kendrick Office, Demetress Bell).

[Rico]

Drew Bledsoe. The team was red-hot at exactly the right time going into the last game of the 2004 season when he #*it the bed against the Steelers' 3rd stringers. That game effectively killed TD's career, leading to the Levy disaster which the team has yet to recover from, hopefully things turn around this year.

[Bill from NYC]

 

 

Kelsay and Whitner are up at the top. Both are/were serviceable NFL players but they were put in prominent roles here and, astoundingly, in leadership roles at that.

 

When you are trying to turn around a downtrodden franchise you need leaders who can lead by example and actually make a difference on the field and these guys simply couldn't make plays.

 

They are complementary talents. Whitner.....playing behind the best front 7 in the NFL he looked good the last two years. Take away just one of those guys(a healthy Justin Smith) and all of a sudden he is a target. Whitner was drafted to be one of THE MEN on the Bills defense, not the target of opposing offenses.

 

The worst player I ever saw on the Bills was Greg Jerman at LT. He was SO bad that I felt sorry for him. What's worse is that I distinctly remember watching a game in actual fear that he, a RB, or a QB might actually get killed. Not so long ago, another poster actually said the same thing. But he does not fit the bill of what the OP is looking for.

I too will go with Whitner, Kelsay, and I'll raise you Jerry Ostroski.

 

It wasn't Whitner's fault that he was drafted at #8. But he was 30 million real dollars down the sewer, and while not THE worst, not a great off field citizen.

 

Kelsay got huge raises for mediocre play.

 

Jerry O was something special. He was a piss poor guard, and he played out his option and received a 3 mil. per season contract as I recall. Included was a demand that he play center. He couldn't get out of his stance and was getting people crushed. I seem to remember him as even a bit of a malcontent as well.

 

The good news is that I actually feel better about this team. Oh they can easily go down the tubes, but in a weak division I think that they can make some noise.