2010 Draft Revisited

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

I remember watching that draft and yelling out "WHAT THE &$@&!!!" When I heard the words running back .. Cj spiller.

Hate to admit it but I was wrong.

[BADOLBILZ]

During last year's training camp Tim Ryan of SiriusXM (and Fox) was raving about Carrington being "unblockable" -- and look how Wanny used him. I'd say he's already "good" and is finally getting a chance to show it. Moats was put in the wrong position and has similarly finally found a home -- he looked very comfortable Friday night.

 

Easley's performance so far this camp is right there in front of us. Troup is really the only one I fear won't make the roster now.

 

The "luxury" moniker continues to crack me up. If you wind up with a bonafide superstar on your roster, it wasn't a luxury.

 

Whoa. Tim Ryan? What did Pat Kirwan have to say? Seriously, I like Carrington but he is blockable.

 

As for the bonafide superstar CJ Spiller.......when he was drafted the top rushers the previous season in the AFC and NFC were Chris Johnson and Steven Jackson. Both of their teams missed the playoffs. BY A LOT.

 

Basically because the league is separated into teams that can pass the ball at a high level and those that cannot. Running the ball in the NFL......it's kinda' like sitting in a rocking chair....it keeps you busy while playing it safe but it doesn't take you from point A to point SB.

 

If CJ Spiller had come out and produced like those guys it still wouldn't have justified selecting YET ANOTHER runnin' back at that time.

 

Well......to compound matters....he didn't.

 

He is entering his 4th season at age 26 and has just 2,000 yards rushing FOR HIS CAREER.

 

There are two active RB's in the league that have exceeded 2,000 yards in A SEASON.

 

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that Spiller will not amass an additional 10,000 yards rushing and get elected to the HOF.

 

The fact that they traded Marshawn Lynch for very little to make room for Spiller...........and subsequently Lynch has far outproduced CJ isn't a knock on CJ.......it's a knock on the Bills for doing what they have done for the past 13 season....careless mismanagement.

[Best Player Available]

Something in me just wants Easley cut. I wrote him off long ago. I'd rather give a new guy a chance. If Easley is playing well then I guess he has to stay.

Hard to let go a one year wonder, from the powerhouse UCONN football program.

He sat most of last year on the PC anyone could have had him for a song. Now in camp and pre-season he morphed into

a player?

If he sticks, I'd like to see him play against a NFL defense with his first chance at completing a regular season catch in his career.

[BADOLBILZ]

:lol:

 

Yep.

 

The 9th pick overall would have been a good time to pick a solid right tackle.

 

And yet many people here both before and after the draft were saying that the pick should have been Bulaga.

 

Lynch RB?

Bulago RT?

Kaepernick QB?

 

How easy would that have been to accomplish?

 

Let's be honest.....it's not necessarily been the actual players the Bills have selected, it's been the methodology. The Bills have drafted A LOT of good running backs. OJ, Joe Cribbs, Greg Bell, Thurman, Antowain Smith, Travis Henry, McGahee, Lynch..........the track record is also excellent in terms of hits versus misses at early round defensive backs..........at some point an organization needs to realize that they have a problem identifying what it needs to do to win. At the time the Bills selected Spiller, they were still not doing the right things as an organization to create a winning team.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Whoa. Tim Ryan? What did Pat Kirwan have to say? Seriously, I like Carrington but he is blockable.

 

As for the bonafide superstar CJ Spiller.......when he was drafted the top rushers the previous season in the AFC and NFC were Chris Johnson and Steven Jackson. Both of their teams missed the playoffs. BY A LOT.

 

Basically because the league is separated into teams that can pass the ball at a high level and those that cannot. Running the ball in the NFL......it's kinda' like sitting in a rocking chair....it keeps you busy while playing it safe but it doesn't take you from point A to point SB.

 

If CJ Spiller had come out and produced like those guys it still wouldn't have justified selecting YET ANOTHER runnin' back at that time.

 

Well......to compound matters....he didn't.

 

He is entering his 4th season at age 26 and has just 2,000 yards rushing FOR HIS CAREER.

 

There are two active RB's in the league that have exceeded 2,000 yards in A SEASON.

 

I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that Spiller will not amass an additional 10,000 yards rushing and get elected to the HOF.

 

The fact that they traded Marshawn Lynch for very little to make room for Spiller...........and subsequently Lynch has far outproduced CJ isn't a knock on CJ.......it's a knock on the Bills for doing what they have done for the past 13 season....careless mismanagement.

 

Where to start?

 

Whether you want to admit it or not, Lynch was not long for Buffalo and the team and many of its fans were smart enough to understand that. You don't remember the Chippewa Street incident? You don't remember the marijuana and weapons charges? These both happened BEFORE Spiller was drafted. The Lynch argument is a non-starter for accurate discussion. The writing was on the wall for Lynch.

 

Spiller was at the time considered the best talent available with the only possible exceptions being Dez Bryant and Jason Pierre-Paul. Bryant was a serious attitude problem and JPP was an unproven commodity with very little track record. Why don't you just admit that Spiller was a great pick?

 

I know you wanted the Bills to draft Bulaga and had they done so it would have been a horrible pick, Spiller or no Spiller.

 

As far as your thesis about passing haves and have-nots, it's irrelevant because there weren't any good QBs available at that point and only a few good receivers. The Bills tried trading back into the first round for Demaryius Thomas but failed. Dallas with their high risk tolerance took Bryant. The Bills like several teams probably dropped him on their board.

 

As far as your mention of Chris Johnson and Steven Jackson not making the playoffs, the best receiver in football Calvin Johnson has gone to the playoffs just once in his six year career. Do you consider Calvin Johnson to be a bad pick?

 

Your criticism of the Spiller pick has been proven wrong.

 

Hard to let go a one year wonder, from the powerhouse UCONN football program.

He sat most of last year on the PC anyone could have had him for a song. Now in camp and pre-season he morphed into

a player?

If he sticks, I'd like to see him play against a NFL defense with his first chance at completing a regular season catch in his career.

 

Clearly from your post, you don't really want to see him play and get his first regular season catch.

 

Lynch RB?

Bulago RT?

Kaepernick QB?

 

How easy would that have been to accomplish?

 

Let's be honest.....it's not necessarily been the actual players the Bills have selected, it's been the methodology. The Bills have drafted A LOT of good running backs. OJ, Joe Cribbs, Greg Bell, Thurman, Antowain Smith, Travis Henry, McGahee, Lynch..........the track record is also excellent in terms of hits versus misses at early round defensive backs..........at some point an organization needs to realize that they have a problem identifying what it needs to do to win. At the time the Bills selected Spiller, they were still not doing the right things as an organization to create a winning team.

 

Again, Lynch would not be a part of any Buffalo team. His stealing money from mall shoppers was only further proof of this. Stop talking about Lynch. It's silly.

 

Bulaga seems like a solid right tackle who will miss this season due to injury. You're nuts to think he'd be a good pick at #9.

 

I banged the drum for Kaepernick and wished the Bills had taken him.

 

But I banged the drum for EJ Manuel and I'm glad we have him so I don't feel like I have to talk about Kaepernick anymore.

 

Here's a distinction you don't seem to make:

 

CJ Spiller is a playmaker. He's a home run hitter. In that regard he's more similar to OJ and has little in common with the other RBs you mention excepting maybe Thurman.

 

When you have a player like CJ Spiller, it changes the way defenses game plan because CJ can take it the distance on any play. That puts him in a small group of players, regardless of position. That's why players like Reggie Bush and CJ Spiller are viewed differently than conventional running backs and were drafted so highly at a time when running backs generally aren't taken highly anymore.

 

Other teams view CJ as "a weapon," not just a running back.

 

You also continue to want to lump the mistakes of regimes of decades ago with more recent regimes as you continue to talk about a "methodology."

 

The Bills haven't had a methodology. They've been a largely incompetent organization. Well all know this already and don't need the constant reminders.

[Maury Ballstein]

Cj > bulaga.

 

Without the chanimals Mr Magoo plays it should be more evident IMO.

[BillsBytheBay]

Are starting defense is going to consist of all Nix players, with the exception of McKelvin. I'm counting Mario, and Lawson as Nix guys as well. Just crazy talk.

 

And our starting offense's skill positions will be nix players except wr2, and QB.(and who knows how much say Nix had there).

 

The only blue chip player we have Nix Drafted.

 

I think knowing this team was not going to be a quick turn around, Nix took high ceiling guys, not high floor guys.

 

[GG]

Are starting defense is going to consist of all Nix players, with the exception of McKelvin. I'm counting Mario, and Lawson as Nix guys as well. Just crazy talk.

 

And our starting offense's skill positions will be nix players except wr2, and QB.(and who knows how much say Nix had there).

 

The only blue chip player we have Nix Drafted.

 

I think knowing this team was not going to be a quick turn around, Nix took high ceiling guys, not high floor guys.

 

It may be a stretch to consider this year's offseason as "Nix's guys" because this offseason was a stark departure in what kind of players Nix targeted and picked in 2010-2012. While the only home run hitter on the team was drafted under Nix, the remaining quality talent on the team came before 2010 and in this offseason. The guys who came in 2010-2012 are the pure definition of jags, who can easley be replaced.

Edited August 20, 2013 by GG

[Dorkington]

During last year's training camp Tim Ryan of SiriusXM (and Fox) was raving about Carrington being "unblockable" -- and look how Wanny used him. I'd say he's already "good" and is finally getting a chance to show it. Moats was put in the wrong position and has similarly finally found a home -- he looked very comfortable Friday night.

 

Easley's performance so far this camp is right there in front of us. Troup is really the only one I fear won't make the roster now.

 

The "luxury" moniker continues to crack me up. If you wind up with a bonafide superstar on your roster, it wasn't a luxury.

 

Training camp and pre-season does not make a player "good". Is it Carrington's fault he wasn't used last year? We'll find out this year. As of right now, he's a depth player who hasn't contributed too much. If/when he plays well this year, I'll gladly label him as whatever positive adjective you want (and I'll be screaming at the FO to re-sign him ). You've been around long enough to know that training camp and pre-season stars don't always end up being stars in the regular season, so I'm not sure why you're bunching these guys into positive categories without any real NFL results.

 

As far as "luxury", he was a "luxury" pick. There's no arguing it. Does that mean he can't ALSO end up being a good player for us? Nope. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

Hopefully, by the end of this season, Dorkington actually contributes to this board... which up until now, he really hasn't.

 

Really easy sitting on an internet board being a blowhard, dissing people that are actually putting in effort to achieve something.

 

 

I'm not dissing anyone, I'm being objective. Spiller is awesome. Carrington has shown flashes of being someone that COULD be a positive contributor to the team, but he hasn't played much yet. We'll find out if that's because he's not all that great, or if it was poor coaching (hope it's the latter). Troup hasn't done anything but recover from injuries, so again, he hasn't contributed. Easley, too. Troup and Easley COULD contribute, but they haven't YET, so I can't say they are good picks YET.

 

If calling it like it is is "dissing players" and qualifies me as a "blowhard" then I'm not sure what to tell you. We have some good players on this team. We have a lot of unprovens. And we probably have a lot of lower end players. We have also had some poor coaching in recent years. A lot has changed this year, I'm not crowning the Bills until they show results during regular season games. I don't see how that's so utterly negative.

 

Are we only allowed to have positive opinions about this team?

[papazoid]

the second round pick is the one that really hurts when you consider who the very next pick was:

 

41st overall Buffalo - Troup

42nd overall New England - Gronkowski

[Dorkington]

Something in me just wants Easley cut. I wrote him off long ago. I'd rather give a new guy a chance. If Easley is playing well then I guess he has to stay.

 

I'd rather us field the best 6-7 WRs we have. Easley is looking like he's going to make it this year. It's nice to see him out there and healthy, and I can't wait to see what he can do for us.

 

---

 

I want to clarify one thing, too.

 

Just because I think CJ was a luxury pick, doesn't mean I'm not glad that we have him. He's a hell of a player, and I'm excited to see him get more game time. But I still consider him a luxury pick because we had two pro-bowl quality backs on the team at the time. Yes, Lynch was on his way out, because the Bills are all about character above production (or at least were, we'll see what happens going forward). Either way, we have CJ now, and I love the guy. I still have concern about using him for power running plays and pass blocking, but his play making ability is unquestionably great. So to repeat. Being a luxury pick, and being a pick that works out, are not mutually exclusive. At the time we had bigger needs, but CJ has proven to be a valuable part of this team.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Dorkington

[San Jose Bills Fan]

It may be a stretch to consider this year's offseason as "Nix's guys" because this offseason was a stark departure in what kind of players Nix targeted and picked in 2010-2012. While the only home run hitter on the team was drafted under Nix, the remaining quality talent on the team came before 2010 and in this offseason. The guys who came in 2010-2012 are the pure definition of jags, who can easley be replaced.

Like all GMs, Buddy had his misses.

 

Also though I think Buddy and the previous coaching staff didn't mesh well.

 

You look at the failed Sheppard pick. The Bills coached him in the Senior Bowl and very likely Chan went to bat for the kid. He was wrong. Tyler Thigpen had to be a Gailey guy.

 

Then you look at a lot of the players whom Nix brought in (T Jax) and were not given much of a chance on the field and it seems like Buddy and Chan weren't on the same page enough to have any success.

 

Mostly the previous coaching staff really sucked.

[Dorkington]

Like all GMs, Buddy had his misses.

 

Also though I think Buddy and the previous coaching staff didn't mesh well.

 

You look at the failed Sheppard pick. The Bills coached him in the Senior Bowl and very likely Chan went to bat for the kid. He was wrong. Tyler Thigpen had to be a Gailey guy.

 

Then you look at a lot of the players whom Nix brought in (T Jax) and were not given much of a chance on the field and it seems like Buddy and Chan weren't on the same page enough to have any success.

 

Mostly the previous coaching staff really sucked.

 

Like many others, I think Nix got who the coaches wanted for the most part.

[billsfan_34]

IMO, Troup will be cut this year.

good possibility however his odds are better to stick due to needing 4 upfront and a rotation

[RyanC883]

the second round pick is the one that really hurts when you consider who the very next pick was:

 

41st overall Buffalo - Troup

42nd overall New England - Gronkowski

 

I was about to throw my remote through my TV when that pick was announced, esp. because we needed a TE at that point. Imagine Spiller and Gronk. Troup was a terrible pick. I hope he proves me wrong. Perhaps Pettine can do something with him. Being healthy and having an actual D-coordinator could go a long way.

 

Like many others, I think Nix got who the coaches wanted for the most part.

 

I agree. That was Nix's problem. Chan was a terrible talent evaluator for the most part. Thiggy, etc.

[BADOLBILZ]

Where to start?

 

Whether you want to admit it or not, Lynch was not long for Buffalo and the team and many of its fans were smart enough to understand that. You don't remember the Chippewa Street incident? You don't remember the marijuana and weapons charges? These both happened BEFORE Spiller was drafted. The Lynch argument is a non-starter for accurate discussion. The writing was on the wall for Lynch.

 

Spiller was at the time considered the best talent available with the only possible exceptions being Dez Bryant and Jason Pierre-Paul. Bryant was a serious attitude problem and JPP was an unproven commodity with very little track record. Why don't you just admit that Spiller was a great pick?

 

I know you wanted the Bills to draft Bulaga and had they done so it would have been a horrible pick, Spiller or no Spiller.

 

As far as your thesis about passing haves and have-nots, it's irrelevant because there weren't any good QBs available at that point and only a few good receivers. The Bills tried trading back into the first round for Demaryius Thomas but failed. Dallas with their high risk tolerance took Bryant. The Bills like several teams probably dropped him on their board.

 

As far as your mention of Chris Johnson and Steven Jackson not making the playoffs, the best receiver in football Calvin Johnson has gone to the playoffs just once in his six year career. Do you consider Calvin Johnson to be a bad pick?

 

Your criticism of the Spiller pick has been proven wrong.

 

 

 

Clearly from your post, you don't really want to see him play and get his first regular season catch.

 

 

 

Again, Lynch would not be a part of any Buffalo team. His stealing money from mall shoppers was only further proof of this. Stop talking about Lynch. It's silly.

 

Bulaga seems like a solid right tackle who will miss this season due to injury. You're nuts to think he'd be a good pick at #9.

 

I banged the drum for Kaepernick and wished the Bills had taken him.

 

But I banged the drum for EJ Manuel and I'm glad we have him so I don't feel like I have to talk about Kaepernick anymore.

 

Here's a distinction you don't seem to make:

 

CJ Spiller is a playmaker. He's a home run hitter. In that regard he's more similar to OJ and has little in common with the other RBs you mention excepting maybe Thurman.

 

When you have a player like CJ Spiller, it changes the way defenses game plan because CJ can take it the distance on any play. That puts him in a small group of players, regardless of position. That's why players like Reggie Bush and CJ Spiller are viewed differently than conventional running backs and were drafted so highly at a time when running backs generally aren't taken highly anymore.

 

Other teams view CJ as "a weapon," not just a running back.

 

You also continue to want to lump the mistakes of regimes of decades ago with more recent regimes as you continue to talk about a "methodology."

 

The Bills haven't had a methodology. They've been a largely incompetent organization. Well all know this already and don't need the constant reminders.

 

My criticism of the Spiller pick was the same then.......look it up if you wish. It wasn't going to matter if he ran for 1600 yards and it wasn't going to matter if Marshawn Lynch ever played another down. The fact that he hasn't and Lynch has been far more productive is relevant but not important.

 

My approach to the draft is that it is an ongoing, team building process. The Bills look at each draft as an event. More often than not, it is about getting the most plug and play ready player they can get in round one.....which has lead them time and again to the RB and DB positions. A critical flaw in the logic regarding the Spiller selection is that the Bills NEEDED a running back because running back A and B were not long term solutions. I think you boys have been sipping the RB Kool Aid a bit too long. You don't need elite talent at RB. It is never that big of a need because it is not how the game is won any longer. GET IT THRU THICK SKULLS.

 

RB's and DB's 50% of the time? QB's and OT's rarely? Short term gratification syndrome. A few years later, they were inevitably back at that well because the RB and DB positions aren't valued, long term building blocks and so large second contracts are often not justifiable. See your example.....Reggie Bush. If he is so valuable, why couldn't he find a big money job last offseason? Mario Williams....critically.......was selected ahead of him.....he could go on the open market and get $10M+ per year right now. Positional value matters, don't be ignorant and pretend it doesn't.

 

As for Bulaga, I wasn't a big fan, but I would have been fine with that pick because he is a good lineman and the Bills need those kind of 10 year building blocks. He blew out a knee this spring but he was slated to be the left tackle for the best quarterback in the NFL this year so it's not like we are talking about a guy who has done less than Spiller in his career. CJ had a spectacular year last year, but I think you guys seem to forget about the general body of work.

Edited August 20, 2013 by BADOLBEELZ

[JohnC]

Lynch RB?

Bulago RT?

Kaepernick QB?

 

How easy would that have been to accomplish?

 

Let's be honest.....it's not necessarily been the actual players the Bills have selected, it's been the methodology. The Bills have drafted A LOT of good running backs. OJ, Joe Cribbs, Greg Bell, Thurman, Antowain Smith, Travis Henry, McGahee, Lynch..........the track record is also excellent in terms of hits versus misses at early round defensive backs..........at some point an organization needs to realize that they have a problem identifying what it needs to do to win. At the time the Bills selected Spiller, they were still not doing the right things as an organization to create a winning team.

 

Spiller has proven to be a terrific pick He is not only the best player on the team but he is one of the best playmakers in the league. What makes his performances even more outstanding is he has done it on an offense without a credible qb.

 

What could have enhanced the Spiller selecton even more (as you noted) is the selection of a credible qb. It didn't have to be made in his draft year because opportunities were available in the subsequent drafts. Just maybe EJ turns out to be the qb that opens up the offense that will allow CJ's runs not to go wasted?

 

I have plenty of criticisms for Nix's drafts. What I'm not going to do is criticize a pick for a player who turned out to be one of the most dazzyling players in the league.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Even if you have a football woody for the work Spiller has delivered, one should not forget that the Bills plan was to keep 3 backs that season. Picking the best RB in the draft was dubious for the team lacking talent in so many places other than RB, but this questionable approach was compounded by the fact the Bills didn't even try to move one of the other backs during the draft to get more picks and improve other areas. And, let's not pretend there weren't teams interested in trading for Lynch. There were. Buddy and Chan turned a deaf ear.

[dave mcbride]

Spiller has proven to be a terrific pick He is not only the best player on the team but he is one of the best playmakers in the league. What makes his performances even more outstanding is he has done it on an offense without a credible qb.

 

What could have enhanced the Spiller selecton even more (as you noted) is the selection of a credible qb. It didn't have to be made in his draft year because opportunities were available in the subsequent drafts. Just maybe EJ turns out to be the qb that opens up the offense that will allow CJ's runs not to go wasted?

 

I have plenty of criticisms for Nix's drafts. What I'm not going to do is criticize a pick for a player who turned out to be one of the most dazzyling players in the league.

 

I don't think Badolbeelz is saying that Spiller isn't good - he's criticizing the philosophy that led the Bills to take an RB rather than attempting to solve the real problem (QB). That's the issue.

[BillsBytheBay]

 

 

It may be a stretch to consider this year's offseason as "Nix's guys" because this offseason was a stark departure in what kind of players Nix targeted and picked in 2010-2012. While the only home run hitter on the team was drafted under Nix, the remaining quality talent on the team came before 2010 and in this offseason. The guys who came in 2010-2012 are the pure definition of jags, who can easley be replaced.

you're right, but if: A. Williams, Darius, Carrington, Moats, M. Williams, Gilmore, Bradham, Brooks, on defense

Urbik, Pears, Glenn, Spiller, Candler on offense, and J. Rodgers, C white on Sp teams, are part of a team that turn around and can be a contender, Will Nix get any love than? This is you're list of "jags"

And the talent that was already here Nix resigned.

Is Bryd not being signed all on Whaley?

Edited August 20, 2013 by JaxBills