PromoTheRobot Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 Gee I must be psychic, I knew what the consensus answer to the question was as soon as I saw the topic What's stopping you from offering a rebuttal? If you don't agree explain why. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald Duck Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Yes, In my opinion Marrone will be a more succesful NFL HC then Chip Kelly I've been very impressed so far with Doug Marrone and Co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) Anyone think Doug Marrone will have more success in the NFL than Chip Kelly will in Philly? My hunch is Kelly will pull a Nick Saban and run back to college within two years. Marrone seems to have a better grasp of where he is going with the Bills. Thoughts? PTR Who knows. Both are longshots as are all new coaches coming in. Philly's owner doesn't seem to mind spending money so that alone could be the difference. My biggest concerns are over Marrone's lack of big wins. He has no big wins while at SU. The Pinstripe bowl is the last bowl game invented and features schlep teams on both sides. The competition there was mediocre. The only non- Big East, MAC, or I-AA teams with winning records that Marrone's SU beat were Northwestern in '09 which finished 8-5 and unranked, and KSU in '10 and WVU last season, both in the Big 12 when SU played them both in the Pinstripe Bowl, but both finished 7-6. Kelly had bigger wins and four very meaningful bowl games in all four years, but he also had a lot more to work with, perhaps the west coast equivalent of Alabama in terms of recruiting, or close, so it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison. So many good college coaches have failed miserably in the NFL. Saban, Holtz, and Spurrier immediately come to mind. Going by the simplest metric for success in the N.F.L.- the quality of one's quarterback- I think Marrone is more likely to have success in the league. Vick doesn't cut it, and I don't see enough in Barkley or Foles. I'm not saying E.J. is a guaranteed success, but I think he is more likely to be a winner than anyone on the Eagles. And over in Philly they're saying the same thing, ... Going by the simplest metric for success in the N.F.L.- the quality of one's quarterback- I think Kelly is more likely to have success in the league. Kolb doesn't cut it, and I don't see enough in Manuel or Tuel. I'm not saying Barkley is a guaranteed success, but I think he is more likely to be a winner than anyone on the Bills. Edited August 16, 2013 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Anyways, the Eagles offense (particularly Michael Vick) is showing signs of life. Vick thanked Kelly for making football "fun again." http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/16/vick-thanks-chip-kelly-for-making-football-fun/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 What's stopping you from offering a rebuttal? If you don't agree explain why. PTR There is no metric to use at this point. But I guess there is a 50% chance of being right with a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Marone because he is coaching the Bills and I'm a fan of that team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) For us it's all going to come down to whether or not Manuel is the QB that the front office and staff thinks he is. I know that the going notion is that Marrone turned things around at SU, but with the second best QB in SU history he managed to only be marginally competitive in that weak conference never beating anyone of consequence outside of the conference and being fortunately to have played five I-AA teams to log 5 of his 25 wins there. We all know that the single biggest factor when translating things from college to the NFL is the speed of the game. So I get nervous when our newbie coaches talk about how they're going to have the fastest team on the track. It tells me that they don't understand the game in the NFL to think that such an approach is novel and hasn't been tried when it's been tried plenty but has failed every time apart from that speed having the associated football talent. i.e., I'm talking about WRs like Holt and Bruce on the Rams contrasted with WRs like Goodwin on the Bills. The former two entered the NFL as polished WRs whereas Goodwin has no such resume. How soon we forget that Gailey said he was going to have a speed focused offense too and most of you here said that was going to be the case too. Easley, who's just as fast as Goodwin for the most part, and Graham were both signed to bring this incredible speed to the team but we have all seen how that speed rarely translates to the NFL like that. Avion Black was another guy that we drafted years ago that was probably the fastest player in Bills history. He did nothing. It concerns me when the focus is all about speed. To win in this league your players, regardless of scheme, have to out-duel their counterparts on the field, it is exactly that simple. Too many people assume that a "scheme" or system can overcome a huge talent deficit. When coaches do it then it's problematic. Also, there was nothing speed oriented about Marrone's offense at SU either. Marone because he is coaching the Bills and I'm a fan of that team. At least you're honest. Edited August 16, 2013 by TaskersGhost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thr_wedge Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 SU didn't have professional (i.e. getting paid) athletes on their squad. Oregon on the other hand... You can't compare the teams or records, they weren't even puling from remotely the same talent pool. It would be like Buffalo only have access to UDFA and Walkons and not even being allowed in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 @TaskersGhost -- well, at least we're thankful you have all the answers. Good Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prissythecat Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 .... Easley, who's just as fast as Goodwin for the most part, and Graham were both signed to bring this incredible speed to the team but we have all seen how that speed rarely translates to the NFL like that. . Talk about a glass half empty post lol. Easley: 40 yard dash time= 4.46s Goodwin: 40 yard dash time= 4.27s I did a quick Google to get the above times. How is 4.46 even remotely similar to 4.27? If the two were running race, there would be a huge gap between them at the finish. Goodwin also was a former Olympian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Who knows. Both are longshots as are all new coaches coming in. Philly's owner doesn't seem to mind spending money so that alone could be the difference. My biggest concerns are over Marrone's lack of big wins. He has no big wins while at SU. The Pinstripe bowl is the last bowl game invented and features schlep teams on both sides. The competition there was mediocre. The only non- Big East, MAC, or I-AA teams with winning records that Marrone's SU beat were Northwestern in '09 which finished 8-5 and unranked, and KSU in '10 and WVU last season, both in the Big 12 when SU played them both in the Pinstripe Bowl, but both finished 7-6. Kelly had bigger wins and four very meaningful bowl games in all four years, but he also had a lot more to work with, perhaps the west coast equivalent of Alabama in terms of recruiting, or close, so it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison. So many good college coaches have failed miserably in the NFL. Saban, Holtz, and Spurrier immediately come to mind. And over in Philly they're saying the same thing, ... Going by the simplest metric for success in the N.F.L.- the quality of one's quarterback- I think Kelly is more likely to have success in the league. Kolb doesn't cut it, and I don't see enough in Manuel or Tuel. I'm not saying Barkley is a guaranteed success, but I think he is more likely to be a winner than anyone on the Bills. It is not just that Kelly had more to work with, SU is a basketball school and has been for thirty years comparing there football program to Oregon's is like comparing Duke's to Alabama. West Virginia is a big time football program, that had a QB most prognosticators had as the number one QB in the country. I don't care if it was the Toilet Bowl Syracuse beat West Virginia soundly. Nassib was good because of Marone not the other way around. Jimmy Johnson, Tom Coughlin and probably Jim Harbaugh, these guys all suck. Oh wait the first two have each won two Super Bowls and the last one coached in the last Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Kelly is an offensive innovator. He's more than just an uptempo spread guy. He's a thinker who matches scheme to talent. But his lack of NFL experience does cause worry. Can he work with older, pro players? Can he build and manage a playoff caliber staff? Can he dissect NFL offenses and defenses as well as, say, Bill Belichick? Does he know how to assess NFL talent? Will he and the front office acquire enough talent to win? I expect Kelly will succeed in the end. But if he doesn't start winning within the first couple years, he'll run back to the NCAA. Good article about Kelly here: http://special.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/sports/17159053-41/story.csp Marrone's NFL experience makes him as good a candidate, in my mind, as Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I have the same feeling about Kelly's NFL career plans as does Promo. He's got a Saban-like quality about him. I think the only reason he ducked into the NFL this year is because his Oregon program was under investigation and Laurie flashed paniced-crazy cash to bring him to Philly. That said, the up-tempo game is beginning to make noise as the lead practitioners of it - Maronne and Kelly are beginning to be noticed. Here's some Carolina blow-back on last night's game: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/16/panthers-were-winded-by-eagles-offense/ The Iggles ran 69 plays last night and 86 in week one. For the record, The Bills ran 85 plays in week one. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Marrone strikes me as more NFL ready with his background, so I wouldn't be surprised if he has a better start. Kelly seems too gimmicky to make it-- guys with gimmicks usually don't last in the NFL. but who knows? with the right players, he could do well. Time and again we have seen great college coaches fail in the NFL. Kelly has all of the makings to add to this heap. Still it will be fun to see if he brings any lasting changes to the NFL. The other thing that can't be forgotten is that some of the college gigs pay fabulously so aside from on the field success or the lack of it coin may pull him back to a campus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Marone because he is coaching the Bills and I'm a fan of that team. Cheers to the most honest post of the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Marone because he is coaching the Bills and I'm a fan of that team. This logic makes absolute sense to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALLEN1QB Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Hell yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Talk about a glass half empty post lol. Easley: 40 yard dash time= 4.46s Goodwin: 40 yard dash time= 4.27s I did a quick Google to get the above times. How is 4.46 even remotely similar to 4.27? If the two were running race, there would be a huge gap between them at the finish. Goodwin also was a former Olympian. Both are very fast by NFL standards. Avion Black ran about a tenth slower than Goodwin and had better receiving credentials in college, yet did nothing in the NFL. Speed without the accompanying football skills is meaningless at the NFL level. But allow me to ask, if he's so blazing fast, what happened at UT? I mean one would think that they'd have been lofting 60 yard TDs at the frequency that fans drink beer, wouldn't you? Or what would be the underlying reason that they did not and why a "receiver" with such incredible speed only averaged 13.1 ypc last year and only 11.4 during his entire UT career which featured only 120 catches in four seasons with his fewest, 26, last season? I mean what, Texas felt that they just didn't need the points? They'd rather use less efficient options? I'd really like to understand. I realize that many think that every player drafted is going to turn into a gem for where he was drafted, but that's been far from the reality for this team for years. The questions are fair ones, I'm just curious why Goodwin's skillset was not utilized more and more effectively at UT, particularly given that differential in speed between those defending him at that level and those that will be defending him at this level is pronounced in favor of defenders in the NFL. So what, specifically, was it that limited this tremendous talent in the receiving department at Texas then, IYO of course? Help me out here if I'm not seeing a WR that did little at UT not lighting up the NFL. As to his value in returns, there too, how come he only had one KR for a TD at UT and even that in his freshman year five seasons ago now? What limited him against players that weren't nearly as fast as those that he'll be facing now in the NFL on coverage? I fully understand that he returned a KR for a TD, but against whom on coverage? The best that Indy had to offer? I don't think so. Maybe some of those slower players in college that won't make NFL rosters anywhere? As well, can we then say that every player that's ever returned a KO for a TD in his first or second preseason game went on to stardom as such in the NFL? Lastly, did we have a problem w/ our KO and P returns last season? Because as I see it McKelvin, who can't do anything else, and Smith, ditto there seemingly, along with Rogers and Easley who also can't do anything else, had us ranked 1st in PR avg. last season and 4th in KR avg. Or am I mistaken? These are fair questions whether you like them or not sorry to inform you. I'm very curious to your or others' [serious] answers. Yes, I realize that "I'm a troll" and that "I want the team to fail," fine, yeah yeah, I get it, but I'm interested in serious answers to those questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I agree with PTR. I think Kelly goes back to college ranks. What made me suspicious was his flip flopping as to whether he was staying at Oregon. Can we just leave it at being a successful head coach in the NFL is difficult. As many coaches that come out of the NFL coordinator ranks fail as those coming out of college. As somebody once said "it's hard to win in the NFL". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 SU didn't have professional (i.e. getting paid) athletes on their squad. Oregon on the other hand... You can't compare the teams or records, they weren't even puling from remotely the same talent pool. It would be like Buffalo only have access to UDFA and Walkons and not even being allowed in the draft. Didn't I say that? Oh yeah, I did, that it's not an apples-to-apples comp because of that. Still, the NCG, Fiesta Bowl, and 2 Rose Bowls in four season also isn't posting two losing records and barely eking into the latest and greatest in also-ran bowls of the Pinstripe bowl digging well below the 50% mark in the caliber of schools that get invited, are they? Or do you think that a bowl game is a bowl game and the Pinstripe Bowl just as important as whichever bowl hosts the NCG? Nassib was good because of Marone not the other way around. And you know this how? I suppose that you think Brady's only good because of Belicheat too then? Time and again we have seen great college coaches fail in the NFL. Kelly has all of the makings to add to this heap. Still it will be fun to see if he brings any lasting changes to the NFL. The other thing that can't be forgotten is that some of the college gigs pay fabulously so aside from on the field success or the lack of it coin may pull him back to a campus. Fair, so for what reason does Marrone have better odds of succeeding? ... other than because the forum consensus is that he will. Cheers to the most honest post of the day This logic makes absolute sense to me! Very fair both of you. I agree as well on the emotional side. Nevertheless, that's akin to "because I said so," wouldn't you say? Some people really want to debate the factual merits tho but some posters won't have it. Those of us wanting to do that don't understand why not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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