Damond Talbot's Buffalo Bills Mock Draft 2.0

[Kelly the Dog]

1.)Then it's a non-starter. If he hasn't demonstrated that, he'll be an UDFA at best. And lucky to do that.

 

2.) I'm not surprised.

 

GO BILLS!!!

1] Untrue entirely. If he has a good football mind, makes quick decisions, accuracy, leadership, experience, etc, which he does, it will make him a lower first round pick or early second, which is what he is. GMs will think they are getting something similar to Pennington. If he COULD make that throw, he would be the #1 overall because he would have almost everything you want.

2] I'm not sure what you mean by not surprised, unless it seems you understand the different philosophies.

[K-9]

1] Untrue entirely. If he has a good football mind, makes quick decisions, accuracy, leadership, experience, etc, which he does, it will make him a lower first round pick or early second, which is what he is. GMs will think they are getting something similar to Pennington. If he COULD make that throw, he would be the #1 overall because he would have almost everything you want.

2] I'm not sure what you mean by not surprised, unless it seems you understand the different philosophies.

 

1.) True. Entirely. It's the polar opposite of the cannon arm with the 10 cent mind, except that coaches always get seduced by the cannon arm and think they can fix the 10 cent mind. The cannon arm always has a better chance of getting drafted over the weak arm. If Barkley REALLY hasn't demonstrated that long out from the far hash, he won't be drafted. That's where Polian was coming from. But I think he HAS shown he can make that throw, on time, or all this rhetoric just makes no sense.

 

2.) I'm not surprised you'd disagree with me on Pennington.

 

It's all good.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Jamie Nails]

Who's Damond Talbot?

 

He's a dude, playin' the dude, disguised as another dude! Just STFU, Donnie. You're out of your element.

[Kelly the Dog]

1.) True. Entirely. It's the polar opposite of the cannon arm with the 10 cent mind, except that coaches always get seduced by the cannon arm and think they can fix the 10 cent mind. The cannon arm always has a better chance of getting drafted over the weak arm. If Barkley REALLY hasn't demonstrated that long out from the far hash, he won't be drafted. That's where Polian was coming from. But I think he HAS shown he can make that throw, on time, or all this rhetoric just makes no sense.

 

2.) I'm not surprised you'd disagree with me on Pennington.

 

It's all good.

 

GO BILLS!!!

We're arguing semantics. He can get the ball there. There are two schools of thought on him and it's glaringly obvious. Chad Pennington could get the ball there. He just couldn't get it there with any velocity. That is why Barkley is not thought to be a franchise guy by a large portion of football people, professional and fans alike.

 

I have read a bunch of scouts saying his arm is below average so they don't think he will be good. Just as many think he is good enough, so they think he will be good. That's where he is right now. I don't think he can get it there with any velocity and a lot of people agree with me. You do, or think it doesn't matter, and a lot of people agree with you.

 

I don't want him because I have been at least three games live where he has flat out sucked, including this year's and last year's ASU/USC game, that have nothing to do with his arm strength.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Kiper and Ron Jaworski were on First Take today talking about Barkley. Kiper compared Barkley to Rodgers again. Here's the end of Kiper's monologue:

 

"Matt Barkley's arm, and it's been proven guys, Matt Barkley's arm could possibly get stronger. Jaws you buy into that, right?"

 

And Jaws' response:

 

"Mel we've had this discussion, and he brings up Aaron Rodgers, and I think that's the best real-life example I can think of. And I did have those concerns about Aaron Rodgers coming out, I thought where he was taken was about right. He was a bubble screen guy, we all thought he was a Jeff Tedford production. But here's the advantage he had: he played behind Brett Favre for 4 years. Every offseason he was in the weight room, he was working in what they call their college over there in Green Bay, their quarterback school with Mike McCarthy. He payed the price to get bigger, to get stronger, more accurate, and became a better quarterback. Didn't waste those 4 years and sulk. He worked at his trade and became a great quarterback. And I'm not saying that can't happen with Barkley, I think that would be a good situation. Go behind a veteran guy, learn the NFL game. Of course that'd be good for everybody. But Aaron Rodgers [is] truly a prime example of that."

 

Keep in mind if Kiper were that good at this, he'd probably work for a team. And Jaws thought JP Losman would be the best QB in his draft class. And despite those words Jaws ranks Barkley as his 6th QB in this draft.

 

They both want to see Barkley end up with a team that will let him sit on the bench a couple years, and that's probably not us.

 

But on the other hand they both give Barkley a fighting chance to develop his arm strength.

[Kelly the Dog]

Kiper and Ron Jaworski were on First Take today talking about Barkley. Kiper compared Barkley to Rodgers again. Here's the end of Kiper's monologue:

 

"Matt Barkley's arm, and it's been proven guys, Matt Barkley's arm could possibly get stronger. Jaws you buy into that, right?"

 

And Jaws' response:

 

"Mel we've had this discussion, and he brings up Aaron Rodgers, and I think that's the best real-life example I can think of. And I did have those concerns about Aaron Rodgers coming out, I thought where he was taken was about right. He was a bubble screen guy, we all thought he was a Jeff Tedford production. But here's the advantage he had: he played behind Brett Favre for 4 years. Every offseason he was in the weight room, he was working in what they call their college over there in Green Bay, their quarterback school with Mike McCarthy. He payed the price to get bigger, to get stronger, more accurate, and became a better quarterback. Didn't waste those 4 years and sulk. He worked at his trade and became a great quarterback. And I'm not saying that can't happen with Barkley, I think that would be a good situation. Go behind a veteran guy, learn the NFL game. Of course that'd be good for everybody. But Aaron Rodgers [is] truly a prime example of that."

 

Keep in mind if Kiper were that good at this, he'd probably work for a team. And Jaws thought JP Losman would be the best QB in his draft class. And despite those words Jaws ranks Barkley as his 6th QB in this draft.

 

They both want to see Barkley end up with a team that will let him sit on the bench a couple years, and that's probably not us.

 

But on the other hand they both give Barkley a fighting chance to develop his arm strength.

Fair enough. Here is Jaws actual scouting report on him, which is similar to mine, except I think Barkley's arm is a little worse than Jaws and he knows 100x more than me. But it's also why I don't want Barkley at all. Jaws thinks his arm is "strong enough". That's the other school of thought.

Matt Barkley, USC. Barkley has been knocked a lot for a lack of arm strength, but I think it’s good enough for the NFL. He probably doesn’t have the athleticism to play for Chip Kelly, but he’s a good bet to challenge for a starting job down the line. He was asked to throw a lot of screens at USC, and sometimes struggled to make decisions and timely throws on intermediate routes. He has all the intangibles, but his upside is limited and he should be a second or third round selection.

[JohnC]

Rodgers was always thought to have a strong arm. Go back and google his scouting reports before the draft. They all will say he had a strong arm and one of the best in the draft class.

 

The following attachment is one of the scouting reports on Drew Brees. It has a striking similarity to many of the reports on Barkley. It notes his accuracy, mid-average arm strength and the ability to process information quickly. The report compared Brees, the prospect, to Garcia.

 

If you watch the clips on the Oregon game it was apparent that he was under constant seige. Yet he moved instinctly moved away from the pressure and quickly got rid of the ball to the right receiver. That is a trait (feel for the defense) you can't teach. Losman is an example of that.

 

The argument that Barkley has a second round value doesn't bother me in the least. It is a fair grade. The second round grade for Kaepernich and the third round grade for Russell Wilson were also fair grades in that there were physical traits and on field issues that were reflected in their draft grades. However, as those two dynomo players have demonstrated those grades don't necessarily reflect how those respective players will play in the pro ranks.

 

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2001/profile/drew_brees.html

[John from Riverside]

If we draft Barkley we are screwed!

 

OK here is something that I dont understand.

 

I dont buy into the talk that Barkeley would have gone before Luck and RGIII last year....but he WOULD have gone high. And if he was a number 1 last year in a crop of strong QBs there is no reason why he wouldnt be a high number 1 this year in a group of "maybe" QBs

 

Im good with Barkeley or Nassib....the connection of Barkeley and and his USC receiver is awesome

[Kelly the Dog]

The following attachment is one of the scouting reports on Drew Brees. It has a striking similarity to many of the reports on Barkley. It notes his accuracy, mid-average arm strength and the ability to process information quickly. The report compared Brees, the prospect, to Garcia.

 

If you watch the clips on the Oregon game it was apparent that he was under constant seige. Yet he moved instinctly moved away from the pressure and quickly got rid of the ball to the right receiver. That is a trait (feel for the defense) you can't teach. Losman is an example of that.

 

The argument that Barkley has a second round value doesn't bother me in the least. It is a fair grade. The second round grade for Kaepernich and the third round grade for Russell Wilson were also fair grades in that there were physical traits and on field issues that were reflected in their draft grades. However, as those two dynomo players have demonstrated those grades don't necessarily reflect how those respective players will play in the pro ranks.

 

http://www.footballs...drew_brees.html

Yeah, I think late first early second is a fair grade for Barkley, and Brees. Some guys prove to be better than their preconceived shortcomings. To me, Brees overcame his height and size problem more than his lack of arm strength problem. I always though he had a good enough arm. But these guys are few and far between if you look at all the late first, second and third round picks over the last 20 years.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

 

Fair enough. Here is Jaws actual scouting report on him, which is similar to mine, except I think Barkley's arm is a little worse than Jaws and he knows 100x more than me. But it's also why I don't want Barkley at all. Jaws thinks his arm is "strong enough". That's the other school of thought.

 

The whole Barkley question is very interesting. This isn't a Fitz situation where his lack of arm strength effects his accuracy, Barkley is a guy who can throw it deep with pretty consistent accuracy. I'd bet money he can accurately throw an out to the outer hash like K-9 talks about, and make any other throw. But when you watch Barkley throw in the mid range it's clear there's a certain lack of velocity that every top QB in the league right now has.

 

The big questions to me are 1) without that zip on the ball, how many of those accurate intermediate passes he fit into windows in college will be INTs and passes defensed against the more athletic NFL defenders, and 2) will his arm get stronger and by how much.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Dee Milliner (if available or trade up), Jarvis Jones, or an offensive lineman will be the 1st round pick- the Kolb signing should have told everyone that. I do not understand why a QB is the answer... it makes no sense! We will probably do what we did with Losman and trade up from our 2nd to get Nassib. That is logical!

[Kelly the Dog]

 

 

The whole Barkley question is very interesting. This isn't a Fitz situation where his lack of arm strength effects his accuracy, Barkley is a guy who can throw it deep with pretty consistent accuracy. I'd bet money he can accurately throw an out to the outer hash like K-9 talks about, and make any other throw. But when you watch Barkley throw in the mid range it's clear there's a certain lack of velocity that every top QB in the league right now has.

 

The big questions to me are 1) without that zip on the ball, how many of those accurate intermediate passes he fit into windows in college will be INTs and passes defensed against the more athletic NFL defenders, and 2) will his arm get stronger and by how much.

Exactly. I personally think his stats are misleading because his WRs were so good and wide open all the time. But when they were wide open he got the ball there. His accuracy on deep balls is very, very good. I just think he won't see guys open like that and his lack of velocity will catch up to him as quickly as defenders catch up to his often rag wobbly throws he could get away with at USC

[JohnC]

Yeah, I think late first early second is a fair grade for Barkley, and Brees. Some guys prove to be better than their preconceived shortcomings. To me, Brees overcame his height and size problem more than his lack of arm strength problem. I always though he had a good enough arm. But these guys are few and far between if you look at all the late first, second and third round picks over the last 20 years.att

 

If you have the time go back and review the 15 minute clip on the USC/Oregon game. As soon as the ball was snapped Barkley was under assault. What is most impressive is that on almost every one of those plays he instinctively side stepped the pressure and got rid of the ball. He reminded me of Brady in his natural "feel" for the pressure and quickly getting rid of the ball to the right receiver. You can't teach that!

 

JaMarcuss Russell has a cannon for an arm. No matter how well conditioned he got himsel into he will never have the ability to adequately process the information on the field and make the right snap read. Neither can Vick develop natural understanding of the game. That is a trait you either have or don't. Losman was a very smart guy in an academic sense. But he didn't have the instincts for the game, and never will no matter how hard he worked at it. It is like a good point guard who has the quick "eyes" and knows where to go with the ball.

 

Is Barkley more of a Brees type player than a Pennington type player? I think so but I can't say for sure. What I can say is that I will have much more respect for this lame losing franchise if it takes a risk on a qb than if it pathetically continues waiting for the perfect moment that usually doesn't come. Acting and failing is not worse than not acting out of fear of failing.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

That's fantastic insight right there. Your comment has lead me to change my stance on Barkley altogether. Do you have any more wisdom to share with us today?

 

 

Weren't you the guy who strenuously recommended that the Bills trade Mario Williams for Skelton?

Weren't you the guy who for almost a year strenuously recommended that the Bills draft Landry Jones with their first pick?

 

Based on your upside/down judgment I'm very comfortable with a Barkley selection.

 

I'm Also the guy who knew Luck (when he was a sophomore), Tannehill and Kaepernick would be great so 3 out of 4 ain't bad, time reevaluate your assessment.

 

says the guy who just wants us to roll with the Kolbster, lol

 

he's better than scrubs in the draft

 

OK here is something that I dont understand.

 

I dont buy into the talk that Barkeley would have gone before Luck and RGIII last year....but he WOULD have gone high. And if he was a number 1 last year in a crop of strong QBs there is no reason why he wouldnt be a high number 1 this year in a group of "maybe" QBs

 

Im good with Barkeley or Nassib....the connection of Barkeley and and his USC receiver is awesome

 

I wish he came out last year than he would have pushed Tannehill to us and we would already have our franchise QB. Barkely is weak armed and small he will be lucky to as good as Fitz.

[JohnC]

 

 

 

I'm Also the guy who knew Luck (when he was a sophomore), Tannehill and Kaepernick would be great so 3 out of 4 ain't bad, time reevaluate your assessment.

 

Stevie Wonder was also able to see very early on that Luck was going to be a special player. Tannehill was taken in the top half of the first round by Miami. He is going to be a good qb, not great.

 

Your year long zealotry promoting Landry Jones as the top qb prospect was very puzzling. And your loud recommendation of trading Mario Williams for Skelon was simply weird. When you throw a dump truck load of mud at the wall some of it is going to stick.

[Astrobot]

 

 

After listening to the pre draft luncheon, I came away just like the rest of you here on the message board. It is down to 2 guys in the first round (Nassib and Barkley). I really don't know which one will be the guy. I told you all before I know EJ is in their top three, and I don't believe Geno is the guy either. I am sure that our head coach has seen enough of Geno that makes him turn cheek on Geno. Here is my second Mock Draft Buffalo Bills style, what do you guys think? Please let me know

 

 

8th Pick - Buffalo will try to trade out but if they can't they don't pass on Matt Barkley.

 

I believe that Barkley is the pick. Buddy is pretty straight forward, he doesn't lie too much. He has said since Chan was here that he wanted a franchise quarterback. He even said before the season ended that this is the year you trade up to get your guy if you need too. With that being said I think they had their minds on one guy from the get go. That is Matt Barkley.

 

Doug Marrone said last year after their game with USC that he wishes Matt Barkley had went pro, and then went on to say that Barkley was the top QB along with Luck. This came from his own mouth, after Barkley lit them up for 378 yards and 4 touchdowns.

 

Not only that, Stevie was at the Hockey game with Barkley in Cali. They are already getting a bond with one another, because that is the future Kelly to Reed.

 

Both Buddy and Whaley defended the heck out of taking a QB at 8. They said they feel that there were a couple franchise guys in this draft that can get the job done. Barkley is one of those guys. They gushed about him, they defended him, they compared him to Joe Montana, and finished up their speech about him saying last year he was their number one guy. Why would that change? It doesn't, if you like what you seen a year ago that doesn't change. He would be a huge asset in the West Coast system, and it is obvious we are going to that system.

 

With the second round pick Buffalo takes Robert Woods, Barkley's favorite target at USC. He is by far the best wide out in this draft, and has more upside that Patterson, Hopkins and others. Woods is a guy that you can insert in the system right now and he will pick it up. The kid is smart, he scored a 23 on his wonderlic and has looked very good. He is a good kid and is a perfect fit for the Bills system.

 

With the third Round pick Buffalo selects Shamarko Thomas Safety from Syracuse. He is a Marrone guy and will fit the Pettine system well, he reminds me a lot of Laron Landry who is not afraid to lay the wood. Pettine always has good safeties, and this is a good back up plan in case Byrd is a long term hold out. I was going to give the Bills Pugh here but he was taken right before they picked.

 

In the fourth round Buffalo selects Ja'Gared Davis OLB, SMU. He is a good player who has a similar skill set to Nigel Bradham. He is a very solid player. I love his motor. Bills are moving Arthur Moats to inside again from what I am hearing, and if that is the case they need another outside guy. I see Davis coming in and lighting up the preseason to move up the depth charts.

 

In the fifth round Buffalo selects TE Ryan Griffin of UConn, the good pass catching tight end will come in and help Barkley and company move the chains. Griffin is a sound tight end, and could be a huge steal in this years draft.

 

In the sixth round Buffalo selects Zach Rogers WR from Tennessee, this kid will be the steal of the draft. Rogers is a solid player who if can stay healthy will be a huge asset to the Bills organization. He will come in and take over the role like David Nelson. He has similar styles but will need to stay healthy first.

 

I like your thinking, Damond. I appreciate your tweets as well.

Astrobot

@TCBILLS_Astro

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

Stevie Wonder was also able to see very early on that Luck was going to be a special player. Tannehill was taken in the top half of the first round by Miami. He is going to be a good qb, not great.

 

Your year long zealotry promoting Landry Jones as the top qb prospect was very puzzling. And your loud recommendation of trading Mario Williams for Skelon was simply weird. When you throw a dump truck load of mud at the wall some of it is going to stick.

 

I recognized Jones wasn't elite so got off the bandwagon and Tannehill is going to be awesome.

[Baba Booey]

 

 

If we draft Barkley we are screwed!

I agree!!!! EJ Manuel should be the QB we pick after trading back later in the first round! GET MORE PICKS!!!!!!!!!!!

[indiragandhi'sthong]

If it means anything, I had a detailed dream last night in which the Bills selected Barkley. I don't remember thinking much about it before bed and in some ways, I prefer Nassib. Maybe a premonition???

[Donald Duck]

If it means anything, I had a detailed dream last night in which the Bills selected Barkley. I don't remember thinking much about it before bed and in some ways, I prefer Nassib. Maybe a premonition???

 

I'm starting to think more and more Nassibs off the board before the Bills pick at 8,

 

sigh...It might be ...