Joe B article on why we need to go SS and my response

[boyst]

Mods, if you feel the need to merge this I will not be insulted!

 

Saw this JoeB article in another thread and thought about adding to that thread. I chose not to because I did not want to hijack the thread. I know many here value my defensive stuff, so here is the response I wrote him. I kind of feel like a dork, but I would be interested in hearing his feedback on my feedback and welcome all ya'll to give some, too...

 

http://www.wgr550.com/pages/16036692.php?contentType=4&contentId=12795899

 

 

 

Joe,

 

I just read the article on adding Vaccaro in the draft. It was well written, very sound in logic and goes along with something I have been saying for a long time about the league and where I see it headed.

 

First off, though, I would like to add in that I got the link from TwoBillsDrive.com, and our forum there. I am going to guess you have heard of it...how could have you have not? Anyway, if you ever look or know it, my handle is pretty much the same there - JBoyst62. I am somewhat of a defensive specialist to many, and credit myself for being knowledgeable on the system. Without getting lengthy I see a few interesting things to point out that will back your belief on the importance of a good SS. When we drafted Whitner is was more of a running league then it is today and we needed a run stuffing RB badly. Coincidentally, we really needed one last year as Wanny's D crapped the bed. To get on a tangent this is because Wanny was a fool using KWilliams and MDareus as space eating DT's that were to hold the line and push the action to the edge and what was supposed to be two athletic and stuffing DE's. When Anderson went down we had to rely on backups that were less capable to do this, but still, maintained the game plan. Where we failed is the middle - KWilliams and MDareus - is that they got run all over. They are penetrating players who are good at beating their man. MDareus had a bad year, personal problems or whatever, we need more of him. Wanny's scheme had these guys way out of position/ability and that left the LB's to get mugged. A layman would think the problem was the LB's not realizing the problem was the scheme, the out of position players and the lack of suitable defenders in the backfield. LB is not the biggest need, to get back on subject.

 

The league now employs TE's to stretch seams, get outside the hashes and and move the old fashioned zone coverages. There is no way anyone in their right mind uses a FS to cover that TE. A SS is a must, and I thought Bryan Scott was that guy last year and think he could be that guy next year in Pettine's unique schemes using 3 Safeties. I do not know how good Searcy is going to be, I did not see enough of what I needed to last year and there is the possibility of AWilliams going to SS, too. However, I am done with trying to convert players to SS no matter how "natural" they may be - George Wilson was very good there a few years back but he got exposed last year in the most basic and natural parts of the SS game. That is why we need Vaccaro, that is why we need to make defense a priority. If 24 TD's from Fitz last year and still lose games like we did then we know defense is the biggest problem. We need to stop teams from scoring.

 

The most interesting event of 2013 in my opinion is the helmet rule. I had thought that that this team would be shifting to a power running game in the next 3 seasons because teams were getting so small, fast, and focusing on the pass so much leaving themselves exposed to the run much like we were against the Pats last year. The helmet rule will change that, in theory, if practiced responsibly and fairly. No longer will you be allowed to bowl your way 10 yards down field, you will need elusiveness and the ability to see lanes. In our case we are set...the first, elusiveness being CJ Spiller and the second, vision - Fred Jackson. Although, just typing CJ's name means he is already winded and it is time to spell him, we need to play him more regardless of what Chan said, but that's another topic. It still comes back to why we need a real safety, an all purpose SS - as you pointed out, all the reasons. We do not need a guy who can lay the wood, a LaRon Landry type as much as we need someone who can shift on a dime and cut off down field runners should MDareus and KWilliams not bounce back. This is why we did not need to get a big FA linebacker, although I would like to take a look at Darryl Smith in a few weeks if he is still available. Our problem is not the LB's, we have a lot of options now. Our problem is not the CB's, but we could use one. Our problem is what happens in the middle and there are two glaring holes there - DT and SS. We have addressed the DT issue with Branch and we hope KWilliams and MDareus get back to 2011 form. That means SS is the biggest need on our defense - possibly a higher value then any other position.

 

Your article needs to echo across the Bills nation because it is 100% dead on. If the Bills go QB in the first it will be done just to appease the fans and I will consider it a bad move regardless of the outcome. Thanks for your great article and I apologize for writing such a long article.

 

Jboyst62

[Dr. Trooth]

I can understand the need for ss, but why so high, especially with Scott & Searcy? There are good safeties up through rd. 4.

 

As far as qb. There is no way Kolb lasts a full season. He takes too many needless hits and too many sacks and Jackson is horrible. Therefore, a qb is imperitive. One that can play this season, because he's gonna have to. You especially want him playing this year because a new coaching staff and young qb always get a mulligan in their first year. The Bills know who their guy is. If they feel they need to select him in rd. 1, so beit. If rd.3 so beit... but their guy better be there, and they better be right.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Dr. Trooth

[boyst]

I can understand the need for ss, but why so high, especially with Scott & Searcy? There are good safeties up through rd. 4.

 

As far as qb. There is no way Kolb lasts a full season. He takes too many needless hits and too many sacks and Jackson is horrible. Therefore, a qb is imperitive. One that can play this season, because he's gonna have to. You especially want him playing this year because a new coaching staff and young qb always get a mulligan in their first year. The Bills know who their guy is. If they feel they need to select him in rd. 1, so beit. If rd.3 so beit... but their guy better be there, and they better be right.

Scott is on a one year deal, listed as a starting OLB. He had a very rough season last year and it is hard to have 100% confidence in his abilities given last year. On the wrong side of 30, as well, at 31 years old.

 

Searcy is young and stepping up, but if you have to improve one area on this team the easiest thing to do is do that at SS when you look at the benefit of Voccaro. He adds instantly, and more substantially then a 5th DL/LB or a QB to groom. I would rather bring in a QB who would start over Kolb or wait until next year. I would not want to risk the chance of bringing a rookie in when Kolb goes down only to have him yanked when Kolb becomes healthy. If that rookie QB is going to be our future long term QB there is no way he would give that position back.

[KOKBILLS]

I can understand the need for ss, but why so high, especially with Scott & Searcy? There are good safeties up through rd. 4.

 

As far as qb. There is no way Kolb lasts a full season. He takes too many needless hits and too many sacks and Jackson is horrible. Therefore, a qb is imperitive. One that can play this season, because he's gonna have to. You especially want him playing this year because a new coaching staff and young qb always get a mulligan in their first year. The Bills know who their guy is. If they feel they need to select him in rd. 1, so beit. If rd.3 so beit... but their guy better be there, and they better be right.

 

Agreed...

 

I don't think any Bills Fan is going to guarantee anything concerning this QB class...But like it or not this better be the year The Bills start getting serious about finding the future at QB...And in order to get serious, you need to start Drafting them...The Bills need to identify the QB's they feel they can build around, and they need to Draft one of those QB's in the 1st two Rounds...It's a step towards the ultimate goal. No position is more important...And certainly not SS...Though admittedly, like most positions, the Bills need help there too...

 

But QB needs to be King from now on, or this team will continue to wallow...Build a real Depth Chart at QB for years to come...That is by far the Bills greatest need...IMHO it's not even close...And I have to admit to being surprised when I hear a Bills fan who feels differently...It's really strange to me after what we have all seen not only in Buffalo, but league wide...

[bowery4]

Really, a safety at 8 will make some ppl on this board, head explode. No one wants that, I kinda like Bill from NYC.

Edited April 13, 2013 by bowery4

[NewEra]

Really, a safety at 8 will make some ppl on this board, head explode. No one wants that, I kinda like Bill from NYC.

 

I'd be happy with vaccaro at 8. I think he's a stud and paired with Byrd will a devastating safety duo. I believe he'd be phenomenal in coverage vs TEs, can lay the big lick and is sound vs the run. While I'd also be happy if we drafted a QB, LB or even OL, I just want to add great players. I think Vaccaro will be a great player, so I'm cool with it.

[RVJ]

Sure tackler and vicious hitter...I love this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W2vFYz-1pE

[symbiant]

Unfortunately, this sounds like a real possibility if we don't go QB. We need a hard hitting safety for Pettine and WR's are deep this year.

I would like this more if we can trade down and get two later first rounders.

 

This draft should be really interesting.

[RVJ]

Cant go wrong with Matt Elam either.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rREjDTpTedE

[Chandler#81]

Good stuff, jboyst, and thanks for the link RVJ!

Gotta ask, though, as an out-of-towner, who's Joe B? All I ever read about on here is how lame and 'second city' GR is on everything sports, sans the Sabres. I appreciated his insightful assessment, taking many pertinent aspects into account. Especially about our LBs being blamed for the front 4 Wanny mess.

 

While no one knows for sure, there just doesn't seem to be top tier QB's worthy of 8th and we have so many needs.

 

This sold me on Vaccaro.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

SS really? it offense people, that wins in todays NFL.

[....lybob]

The Bills got seven sacks from the RDE position last year Moore 3 + Kelsey 2, + Merriman 1 and Anderson 1, seven sacks from the RDE position is pitiful and six of those sacks are gone I think that qualifies as a need - anyways the Bills aren't a playoff contender that needs a couple positions upgraded for a SB run, they are a bad team, and bad teams with any sense must go BPA I'm not saying you have to pick a guy with a 94 rating over a guy with a 92 rating if the guy with a 92 rating fills a position of greater need but you can't go a lower tier player to fill a space.

 

My favorites in order are Ziggy Ansah, Lane Johnson, Dion Jordan, Star Lotulelei,Chance Warmack, Jonathan Cooper- DEs , DTs, OTs, OGs are the strength of this draft and personally I'd go early and often- if the Bills trade down then Vaccaro is on the list but again he is behind Warmack, Copper, D.J. Fluker , Geno Smith.

[Dibs]

.......

 

Your article needs to echo across the Bills nation because it is 100% dead on. If the Bills go QB in the first it will be done just to appease the fans and I will consider it a bad move regardless of the outcome.

 

He wasn't saying we shouldn't select a QB in the 1st......he was saying that assuming there isn't a viable 1st round QB available we should select SS.

 

"assuming that quarterback may be more of a second-round option with this year's group, safety would rank near the top of positions they have a need for. Factoring out quarterbacks, here is why I'd discredit some of the other positions before I would with safety"

 

If the Bills go QB in the first it will be done because they believe the QB is a viable 1st round option......not merely for PR purposes.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Dibs

[Coach Tuesday]

I started a thread about this a couple of weeks ago - the Bills are definitely gonna draft a safety or two, perhaps with an early pick.

 

Personally I'd prefer Swearinger from SoCa - guy dominated against top competition.

 

As for Vaccaro, my issue isn't with the position, it's with the school. I have a real bias against Texas players. I don't normally find it useful to lump all players from a school together, but I make an exception for UT. Mack Brown runs a soft program that pampers athletes and does not prepare them in the least for being professionals. There have been a HUGE number of flameouts from that program: Mike Williams, Roy Williams, Ricky Williams, Aaron Williams, Limas Sweed, Colt McCoy, Sergio Kindle, Aaron Ross, Vince Young, Michael Huff, Cedric Benson, etc. Something about that program causes it to churn out great athletes who immediately wilt under the pressure of pro sports.

 

And frankly, the risk factor for the Bills is just too high. If they swing and miss on this pick, especially if they pick a safety at 8 that mirrors recent history, while leaving QBs or other potential impact players on the board, the consequences will be disastrous.

 

And with all of that said, my nightmare draft, which actually seems quite realistic to me, goes something like this:

 

RD1 - Kenny Vaccaro

RD2 - Tyler Bray

RD3 - Vance McDonald

 

I can see this happening, and it's utterly terrifying. And two years from now, we'll be talking about how it could've been E.J. Manuel, D.J. Swearinger and some other impact player.

[CardinalScotts]

SS really? it offense people, that wins in todays NFL.

yes ask the Saints-

 

we need a playmaking LB, although Pettine had a good defense with the Jets and no double digit sack guy

Edited April 13, 2013 by CardinalScotts

[peterpan]

FWIW Matt Elam is a stud of a safety. I dont know why Vaccaro gets so much attention. As a Horns fan, its possible to watch an entire game and not remember if he even was playing. Matt Elam on the other hand, made seemingly every play that made it 5 yards past the line of scrimmage. If there was a big hit from a DB coming down, it was Matt Elam. Forced fumble? Matt Elam. The dude is a baller. Maybe its because he is short, but we should not pass him over, even if we were set at Safety.

 

Internet mocks, which aren't reliable at all. have him going in the 2nd for the most part. If he is there for our 2nd rounder, you would be hard pressed to find a player who will have more positive impact on a game.

 

All of that is fact and not my opinion :-)

[K-9]

SS really? it offense people, that wins in todays NFL.

 

Isn't that another way of saying defense loses?

 

NewEra had it right. It's about adding great players, not great positions.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[boyst]

Alright, I am not saying Voccaro is a must. I realize the many hangups with him - UTexas being a big part of that - but I think that a safety needs to be snatched up early and one that is ready to start.

 

It is exactly right, though, everyone says offense wins in the NFL. But, like the pooch said, it is defense that loses games. 2012 was proof of that. Our defense lost 3 games flat out. Our coaching staff was the reason.

 

We need to field the 11 best players on both sides of the ball, and prior to the draft I am going to parlay my defensive series of threads back to an offensive series and then to the question of the best 22 players on this team. So, get ready for that. Open your mind that the best players on this team must be played regardless of position and that should mean two RB's on the field at all times. Yes, Fred Jackson as a fullback type and CJ as a HB type. If we find a good 3rd DE that means we find a way to put him on the field, too. Our success should not be predicated on basic schemes of the systems historically run by by this league. Teams are not doing this anymore. Look at everything SF did. Look at Seattles defense. Look at the Ravens offense, and take away 3 players on the Ravens and look how they used every drop of talent to find success.

 

Our 2013 season has no excuse. There is talent on this team, enough to make the playoffs. I had little hope for 2012, I knew the gel would not be set but before these guys age out of their own talent we need to stoke this up.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

As far as qb. There is no way Kolb lasts a full season. He takes too many needless hits and too many sacks and Jackson is horrible. Therefore, a qb is imperitive. One that can play this season, because he's gonna have to. You especially want him playing this year because a new coaching staff and young qb always get a mulligan in their first year. The Bills know who their guy is. If they feel they need to select him in rd. 1, so beit. If rd.3 so beit... but their guy better be there, and they better be right.

 

I personally think the Kolb signing suggests the OBD brain trust feels that the QB(s) they prefer to draft won't be ready to start this year. Implication is he isn't a guy they want at #8.

 

I'd be interested to understand the factual basis for your statement that Jackson is horrible. He won a lot of respect with his play his last year in Seattle.

He is not a franchise QB, he's at least a capable NFL mid-tier NFL starter and he's durable and tough. Not sure facts and film support you, at least not thinking he's horrible relative to Kolb or a rookie from this year's class. IMO the only reason to prefer Kolb to TJax is there's less film on Kolb behind a decent line, so there's more chance he could be better than expected.

 

Unless of course you're the kinda guy who was hyperbolizing on Fitz being horrible, in which case you'll be calling Kolb, Jackson, AND our rookie horrible by week 7

[KeisterHollow]

There's no doubt - I'm sure most of us read an article a few weeks ago about the importance of safeties in Pettine's defense, supposedly MUCH more important than corners - Buffalo will draft a safety this year. I find their visits interesting...they brought in a bunch of safeties, and they range, in predicted draft spots, all over from 1st round to UDFA. My guess with this, as with WR, is they are COMPARING the best with these lesser known prospects - that, to me, suggests they'd like to be able to get a comparable prospect later in the draft without having to use such a high pick.

 

I think that is really what Buffalo is doing - they're building scenarios where if X player is gone, they go to plan B. IF Y player is gone, they go to plan C. Plan A might be a QB, it might be an OLB/DE, a CB, a LT - we just don't know. Certainly, though, there are talented safeties in this draft who would give Buffalo a formidable tandem EVEN if they pass on Vaccaro. Add to that, we don't know if they plan on using A. Williams as a Safety. He'd change their "need" there, I would think.

 

All in all, this post and the previous articles should prepare Buffalo fans for a draft that includes an early pick at Safety. IMO, though, there are at least 3 or 4 other positions that could just as easily go early - and with that many possibilities, it's like being ready to expect anything.