Those who like the Kolb signing post here

[dave mcbride]

This is a good read from Greg Cosell, one of the very best IMO, about the Bills and Kolb.

 

http://blogs.canoe.ca/krykslants/sports/qa-greg-cosell-on-kolb-with-the-bills/

Great read, although I hate his conclusion (the Bills wiil avoid taking a qb first yet again). His assessment of kolb gives me no hope.

[GG]

 

Great read, although I hate his conclusion (the Bills wiil avoid taking a qb first yet again). His assessment of kolb gives me no hope.

 

I think that it's telling that four QB desperate teams picking at the top of the draft have all elected to get help from veterans and not roll the dice on this draft class.

[thewildrabbit]

There are reasons that Kolb didn't succeed in Philly where he had many weapons, RB LeSean McCoy, WR's DeSean Jackson, Jeremy Maclin, TE Brent Celek.

 

In 2010 Kolb had 5 game starts and went 2-3 with the talent on that Eagle roster. In those 3 losses. (18-36 for 162 yards 1 TD, 3 INT's against the Cowboys 14-13) (26 of 48 for 231, yards 1 TD, 2 INT's against the Titans 37-19) (22-35, for 201, 1TD, 1 INT against the Redskins 17-12)

 

Kolb has been in the league long enough now to fully develop, and he worked in the WCO under Andy Reid while in Philly. You have to think that if Andy Reid saw something in him to use a #2 draft pick on him and then trade him away for a #2 there must be many flaws or Reid would have kept him.

 

 

All the Bills did with this move is get a younger QB who hasn't proven he can win in the NFL. Who really knows if he has that same survivability that Fitz had. Fitz had two major traits that allowed him to survive in Buffalo, escape-ability like Mike Vickish ability to scramble, and a very quick release that allowed him to get the ball out to the open receiver in under 1.5 seconds and always usually under 3 seconds.

 

Now Trent Edwards had a quicker actual arm release, but couldn't get the ball to the receiver as quickly as Fitz. He also had difficulty reading the defenses and setting protections. Also, Fitz took many more chances with down field throws that Edwards hardly ever did.

 

That said, if Marrone builds a run first offense with Spiller and Jackson getting more attempts then the QB passing attempts. Then Kolb or TJ might prove to be decent game managers, and might even win more games then Gailey or Jauron.

[ganesh]

Also, Fitz took many more chances with down field throws that Edwards hardly ever did.

 

That said, if Marrone builds a run first offense with Spiller and Jackson getting more attempts then the QB passing attempts. Then Kolb or TJ might prove to be decent game managers, and might even win more games then Gailey or Jauron.

 

Fitz throwing down field disappeared after his 1st full season. He was more scared to pull the trigger in the 2nd and 3rd seasons.

 

Marrone cannot simply build a "run-first" offense. In today's NFL, teams will force you to beat with the QB by putting 8 (or 9) in the box to stop the run. If we don't have a consistent QB who can deliver the ball to the receivers the running game will not matter. At this point we neither have the QB nor the WRs. Hopefully, the draft will address this weakness.

[thewildrabbit]

Fitz throwing down field disappeared after his 1st full season. He was more scared to pull the trigger in the 2nd and 3rd seasons.

 

Marrone cannot simply build a "run-first" offense. In today's NFL, teams will force you to beat with the QB by putting 8 (or 9) in the box to stop the run. If we don't have a consistent QB who can deliver the ball to the receivers the running game will not matter. At this point we neither have the QB nor the WRs. Hopefully, the draft will address this weakness.

I disagree. The Ravens, 49ers, Texans, Falcons, Vikings all have / had a run first offense and their QB's have developed very well under that philosophy. It worked for the Jets the first few years with Mark Sanchez at QB, then they got away from running it, and fell apart.

 

Using the Ravens for example:

 

Remember that 2010 AFC Wildcard game from the 2009 season. Baltimore at New England? In case you missed it Joe Flacco (his 2nd season)went 4 for 10 for 34 yards!! Meanwhile Ray Rice had 22 attempts for 159 yards, 2 TD's. Willis McGahee had 20 attempts for 62 yards, 1 TD. in a 33-14 win. The Ravens utilized 3 OT's, and used one as a TE to block. The Patriots had no answer to stop that running game. That should have become a blueprint for the Bills to beat the Patriots.

 

2008 Ravens 433 attempts passing vs 592 attempts rushing= 11-5 playoffs, AFC conference Championship game. with a rookie QB

2009 Ravens 510 attempts passing vs 468 attempts rushing= 9-7 playoffs a tad more passing

2010 Ravens 491 attempts passing vs 487 attempts rushing= 12-4 playoffs very balanced

 

The Ravens allowed Flacco to develop properly because he had a decent defense and running game to support him

 

The Vikings last season 483 attempts passing vs 486 attempts rushing=playoffs with Christian Ponder at QB

 

 

Running the ball works, its always worked!! Its just that teams seem to think they can put just anyone on the field and make it work, It won't always work with sub par players.

 

Hence the reason I've always advocated building a dominate O line first thing. That dominate O line is something that has been lacking since the Jim Kelly days when they ran the ball more then they threw it most years. That K-gun offense was all about handing off to Thurman Thomas who was 70% of the Buffalo offense. The Bills had the Electric Co for OJ. The Bills had a good O line under Chuck Knox, the man who drafted a guard at #16 in the first round in 1980. That guard was all pro Jim Ritcher who played 16 seasons in the NFL, 14 for Buffalo.

 

Right now the Bills have a very average O line with some questionable starters / backups. That could improve greatly with drafting one of the top 3 OT's this draft or even one of the 2 top OG's.

[ganesh]

I disagree. The Ravens, 49ers, Texans, Falcons, Vikings all have / had a run first offense and their QB's have developed very well under that philosophy. It worked for the Jets the first few years with Mark Sanchez at QB, then they got away from running it, and fell apart.

 

Using the Ravens for example:

 

Remember that 2010 AFC Wildcard game from the 2009 season. Baltimore at New England? In case you missed it Joe Flacco (his 2nd season)went 4 for 10 for 34 yards!! Meanwhile Ray Rice had 22 attempts for 159 yards, 2 TD's. Willis McGahee had 20 attempts for 62 yards, 1 TD. in a 33-14 win. The Ravens utilized 3 OT's, and used one as a TE to block. The Patriots had no answer to stop that running game. That should have become a blueprint for the Bills to beat the Patriots.

 

2008 Ravens 433 attempts passing vs 592 attempts rushing= 11-5 playoffs, AFC conference Championship game. with a rookie QB

2009 Ravens 510 attempts passing vs 468 attempts rushing= 9-7 playoffs a tad more passing

2010 Ravens 491 attempts passing vs 487 attempts rushing= 12-4 playoffs very balanced

 

The Ravens allowed Flacco to develop properly because he had a decent defense and running game to support him

 

The Vikings last season 483 attempts passing vs 486 attempts rushing=playoffs with Christian Ponder at QB

 

 

Running the ball works, its always worked!! Its just that teams seem to think they can put just anyone on the field and make it work, It won't always work with sub par players.

 

Hence the reason I've always advocated building a dominate O line first thing. That dominate O line is something that has been lacking since the Jim Kelly days when they ran the ball more then they threw it most years. That K-gun offense was all about handing off to Thurman Thomas who was 70% of the Buffalo offense. The Bills had the Electric Co for OJ. The Bills had a good O line under Chuck Knox, the man who drafted a guard at #16 in the first round in 1980. That guard was all pro Jim Ritcher who played 16 seasons in the NFL, 14 for Buffalo.

 

Right now the Bills have a very average O line with some questionable starters / backups. That could improve greatly with drafting one of the top 3 OT's this draft or even one of the 2 top OG's.

 

You are missing my point. Your examples are 3 seasons ago...Today's NFL is vastly different from what it was in 2009.

[Marv's Neighbor]

So is he really "officially" signed yet?

[thewildrabbit]

You are missing my point. Your examples are 3 seasons ago...Today's NFL is vastly different from what it was in 2009.

No it isn't, you missed my point about the Vikings making the playoffs with Christian Ponder at QB.

 

The Only reason I used the Ravens was to show that playoff game, C'mon, Flacco throwing only 4 completions in 10 attempts for 34 yards in a playoff game that the Ravens dominated the Patriots IN New England.

 

The running game always works, to what degree it works depends on what you put into it. It worked for Chan Gailey utilizing the same spread offense that worked back in the Jim Kelly / Thurman Thomas days. When you spread the LoS out it makes it so much more difficult to stack the box, one missed tackle and its a big gainer..The difference is that the Jim Kelly Bills had better talent on that line and could make a 3rd and short by running, and also pass blocked better. Fitz took a lot of hits after the ball was out.

 

Another RECENT example:

 

Look at that 49er O line, in 2010 the Niners took an OT & an OG with first round picks. This past season they went 11-4-1 and went to the super bowl with LT Joe Staley a 1st rounder, all pro. LG Mike Iupati is a 1st rounder, RT Anthony Davis is a 1st rounder, only the RG and Center are later picks. The 49er O line dominates!!

 

The Niners in 2012 436 attempts passing vs 492 attempts rushing.

 

The two teams in the Super Bowl this year, Ravens - 49ers both have dominate running games.

[OCinBuffalo]

I don't like the Kolb signing. Now what are you gonna do?

I don't understand how this thread is different than the other Kolb thread..

This thread is the exact opposite of the Monty Python, "I came here for an argument" skit.

 

 

In truth, I like the Kolb signing because it was necessary, given how badly things have been handled regarding Fitz, as was stated above.

 

Now, this is the Kolb plan, with the same intention.

 

Moving forward, the real question is: If Kolb plays like a hero, and especially if he out-plays Brady and we beat the Pats* at home, with a glorious comeback...

...and BTW, if you had seen Kolb play in Philly, like I did, you'd realize that this has significantly more chance of happening with Kolb than Fitz....

...how many here are going to want to stick to the plan, and, even though we take a rookie QB this year, draft another one next year?

 

That's the problem. I don't think you could find very many people here or anywhere that would be thinking: draft a QB, after the Pats game in 2010. We, myself included, were all too willing to give Fitz a pass for the rest of the year due to cracked ribs, or whatever else.

[cjbills69]

_{I like the move better than Fitz and the Bills wont have to stretch to draft a QB , in a pretty weak pool}

Edited April 3, 2013 by cjbills69

[Donald Duck]

Great move,

 

we have upgraded the most important position on the team ( at least in my opinion) from Fitz/Thiggy, to Kolb/TJ,

 

and are still in all likelyhood going to draft a rookie in the early rounds...

[DefenseWins]

It's interesting that the Bills haven't announced his signing yet officially...

[Maury Ballstein]

OK, now list me all the successful teams built around one particular player other than a QB.

 

Yeah......because they don't really exist.

 

So, when you are wishing.....hoping......and praying......for Stephon Gilmore or Aaron Maybin to turn your franchise around instead of a quarterback.......good f*cking luck with that!

 

The simple fact remains.....if the Bills had just stayed put and taken the next QB to be drafted after their ACTUAL first round pick in the last 13 years they would have a Drew Brees, an Aaron Rodgers, or a Joe Flacco.

 

But of course, none of them were can't miss prospects......so the Bills just had to PASS.

 

Those 3 QB's have hoisted 3 of the last 5 Lombardi trophies.

 

The Bills could have taken them in their respective drafts if they didn't use the approach you are advocating of never going all in.

 

The Bills idea of being all in is getting their speed receiver who will be out of the league in 7 years and then trading back into round 1 to take the 4th best QB on the board.

 

Fortune has rightly turned it's back on this team because it has no balls on draft day.

 

It's really easy to take the top running back or cornerback on your board. They are really easy evaluations.

 

And you can hit on ALL of those picks and still miss the playoffs every year.

 

That's just the simple truth in the NFL......and the Bills are one of the few organizations that doesn't understand this.

 

So by all means......let's get Alec Ogletree or Dee Milliner or whomever because after abstaining from taking a QB with their first pick in any draft for the past 53 years it would be unacceptable to swing and miss on a quarterback now.

 

I mean, how are the Bills ever going to prove everybody wrong if they give in to the facts?

BAM! preach it! this is the truth.............Kolb/Fitz/Trenative/Jp = trash bin qb's draft a young one and lets get this party started.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

It's interesting that the Bills haven't announced his signing yet officially...

I dont think the deal is done yet.The nfl networks morning show said this is one UGLY deal going on.

[Best Player Available]

So is he really "officially" signed yet?

No signed contract as of this AM. Weird I know. Just an agreement in principle.

[CodeMonkey]

No signed contract as of this AM. Weird I know. Just an agreement in principle.

I take that as an encouraging sign that Nix is probably standing his ground and won't overpay for a stopgap QB.

[Buftex]

Is anyone else a little nervous about this "no signed contract yet" thing? I was assuming Kolb would be in for workouts with the rest of the team this week.

[reddogblitz]

Is anyone else a little nervous about this "no signed contract yet" thing? I was assuming Kolb would be in for workouts with the rest of the team this week.

I am. This is odd. I keep expecting any day to hear that he has signed with Jacksonville or the Jets or Seahawks. I hope we don't blow this.