The Voice of Truth Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 In my opinion, this criticism of Nix is mostly unfair. He has been in charge of exactly 3 drafts in Buffalo. Yes, QB is the most important position in the NFL. Yes, he can be criticized for not selecting Andy Dalton or Colin Kaepernick, but let's allow those guy's careers to play out a bit longer before anointing them as Hall of Famers. Is Buddy Nix the best GM ever? I don't think so, but he also isn't as bad as he has been made out to be by some here. He has credible scouting background, including being involved in selecting Eli Manning and was very likely consulted in the trade of Manning for Phillip Rivers. He has added talent to the roster, including several street FAs including starting RT Erik Pears and starting TE Scott Campbell. He has also misfired on some relatively high draft picks (I'll concede that Aaron Williams has been lost at CB, but I'd like to see him be tried at Safety, I am in the minority, but I think it is too early to label TJ Graham a bust). I too have been a defender of Nix. However, there comes a time when you have to be honest with yourself. He has sorely missed on acquiring the most important position in sports. He has been head if football operations for 3 years and where are the Bills? Lost. What is his record as director of all football operations. Well well below .500. Yeah, lets draft 3 QBs with our first 3 picks in one of the worst QB drafts ever. Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz I'm not getting this argument. The fact that this QB class is suspect is why we need to draft more than one. If we were getting an Andrew Luck we wouldn't need to draft more than 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I too have been a defender of Nix. However, there comes a time when you have to be honest with yourself. He has sorely missed on acquiring the most important position in sports. He has been head if football operations for 3 years and where are the Bills? Lost. What is his record as director of all football operations. Well well below .500. To be clear, I am not saying that he is really good, only that he isn't as bad as made out to be. He inherited a total mess, nearly completely devoid of talent. The only 3 QBs that I think anyone can point to that he "blew it" by not picking have been Kaepernick, Dalton and Russell Wilson. It would have been great if he had taken a shot on one of them, but he had PLENTY of company in passing on those guys. It isn't like the Bills were the only team in the league looking for a QB, yet Dalton and Kaepernick lasted into round 2 and Wilson into round 3. Yep, it hurts that he picked Aaron Williams over Kaep and Dalton and TJ Graham over Russell Wilson, but Williams was highly thought of by most draft "experts" and may yet pan out at Safety. It is also worth mentioning that MANY 2nd round picks don't make it in the NFL. That isn't just the Bills, but across the league. Again, I am not saying that Nix has done a great job, but given the hand he was dealt, he has built a better talent base than what he inherited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I get that it's a bit of an over-the-top idea, but I wouldnt be upset if the went that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 So hopeful, you're willing to suck for another year. Why don't we just set the record for longest playoff drought while we're at it. If we don't have a QB we're gonna suck. Your thinking is exactly like Nix's right now. And that's why we're gonna continue to suck probably. Because we cant seem to solve the QB problem. Get 1! Where on earth do you get this stuff? Yes, we need a QB. Yes, we should draft a QB. No one is saying we shouldn't get a QB. Certainly not I. You were saying "get 3 with the first 3 rounds" in your OP. That's half our draft picks. I disagree. Now you're saying get 1. I agree, maybe even 2 if one is a late round sleeper. Make up your mind - I don't like arguing a bait-and-switch or straw man. Your position in the OP appeared to be that the way to not suck is to draft 3 raw QB and split their reps and their coaching time, to ensure that all 3 of them stay raw and suck. This makes sense to you why? Let's hear some actual truths - logical arguments and reasons, not dramatic rodomontade about setting records for longest playoff drought. Saying the Bills should decide who their best shot draft QB is this year, go for it, nurture and develop whoever they draft, and if he doesn't work out try again next year seems equivalent to saying "keep sucking" and "don't get a QB" why? Again, let's hear logical arguments and reasons, not straw man arguments (attributing to me a position I'm not arguing, such as dont get a QB). By the way, there is no guarantee that the Bills won't suck this next year, even if they hit the jackpot and find a gem at the QB position. Cam Newton and Sam Bradford were both highly touted #1 picks and their teams are13-19 and 15-26 with them playing, respectively and Newton at least has been lighting it up, 40 TD 7.9 Y/A. Moral of the story, QB is an important need and deserves more effort and draft picks than the Bills have given it, but it's not the only need to build a winning franchise. Will the Voice of Truth understand, or stick his fingers in his ears and go LaLaLa when this truth is spoken? In my opinion, this criticism of Nix is mostly unfair. He has been in charge of exactly 3 drafts in Buffalo. Yes, QB is the most important position in the NFL. Yes, he can be criticized for not selecting Andy Dalton or Colin Kaepernick, but let's allow those guy's careers to play out a bit longer before anointing them as Hall of Famers. Is Buddy Nix the best GM ever? (...) He has added talent to the roster, including several street FAs including starting RT Erik Pears and starting TE Scott Campbell. Who is TE Scott Campbell and who is he starting for? Precisely. OK, I'll ask you too - who is TE Scott Campbell and who is he starting for? Never heard of him - is this some 2013 FA signing I slept through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Truth Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Where on earth do you get this stuff? Yes, we need a QB. Yes, we should draft a QB. No one is saying we shouldn't get a QB. Certainly not I. You were saying "get 3 with the first 3 rounds" in your OP. That's half our draft picks. I disagree. Now you're saying get 1. I agree, maybe even 2 if one is a late round sleeper. Make up your mind - I don't like arguing a bait-and-switch or straw man. Your position in the OP appeared to be that the way to not suck is to draft 3 raw QB and split their reps and their coaching time, to ensure that all 3 of them stay raw and suck. This makes sense to you why? Let's hear some actual truths - logical arguments and reasons, not dramatic rodomontade about setting records for longest playoff drought. Saying the Bills should decide who their best shot draft QB is this year, go for it, nurture and develop whoever they draft, and if he doesn't work out try again next year seems equivalent to saying "keep sucking" and "don't get a QB" why? Again, let's hear logical arguments and reasons, not straw man arguments (attributing to me a position I'm not arguing, such as dont get a QB). By the way, there is no guarantee that the Bills won't suck this next year, even if they hit the jackpot and find a gem at the QB position. Cam Newton and Sam Bradford were both highly touted #1 picks and their teams are13-19 and 15-26 with them playing, respectively and Newton at least has been lighting it up, 40 TD 7.9 Y/A. Moral of the story, QB is an important need and deserves more effort and draft picks than the Bills have given it, but it's not the only need to build a winning franchise. Will the Voice of Truth understand, or stick his fingers in his ears and go LaLaLa when this truth is spoken? Logical argument: Franchise QBs are hard to identify. Teams even with the #1 overall pick miss on them. They're enigmatic and hard to understand. The information you can gather in the draft process is insufficient in assessing their ability. Having them in camp and interacting with them daily gives you a much clearer picture. So, drafting just one would likely leave us with a less than 50% chance of actually getting the QB we need. Drafting 3 gives us a significantly higher chance at finally having a good QB. We have to take extreme action to get one. Drafting only one and hoping it works out isn't enough. We have to have a "win now" attitude. Something you lack. The Truth is often met initially with contempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) Who is TE Scott Campbell and who is he starting for? OK, I'll ask you too - who is TE Scott Campbell and who is he starting for? Never heard of him - is this some 2013 FA signing I slept through? OK, sorry: Scott Chandler. Edited March 30, 2013 by OldTimer1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Well the Skins took too last year and it looks like that worked out just fine so why not do one up and get three. (sic) You do know it takes 11 guys to play this game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 So hopeful, you're willing to suck for another year. Why don't we just set the record for longest playoff drought while we're at it. If we don't have a QB we're gonna suck. Your thinking is exactly like Nix's right now. And that's why we're gonna continue to suck probably. Because we cant seem to solve the QB problem. Get 1! I have no interest in criticising your left field of the moon idea because you are right. Something has to stick eventually.But the main reason this does not work in todays NFL is that there are not enough resources , generally , to work with each one to develop and get a clear understanding of the upsides. and we really can only field one at a time. Also we have alot of needs although QB IS the most important one. I think Marrone /Hackett need to pick one and go for it. Nix needs to manage the board and the phones to make it happen It's not easy finding a real qb in the NFL this year. Andy Andy Andy ! ! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nukethis Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I too have been a defender of Nix. However, there comes a time when you have to be honest with yourself. He has sorely missed on acquiring the most important position in sports. He has been head if football operations for 3 years and where are the Bills? Lost. What is his record as director of all football operations. Well well below .500. I'm not getting this argument. The fact that this QB class is suspect is why we need to draft more than one. If we were getting an Andrew Luck we wouldn't need to draft more than 1. The reason you are not "getting this argument" is that you're fixated on the QB position. if you take an honest look at our beloved Bills you would see that we desperately need LB'ers, our WR corps is Stevie Johnson and nobody, our only decent TE is coming off ACL surgery on his knee and may not be up to par, our DB's are thin or overmatched, and our OL has lost starter andy Levitre while Eric Pears is coming back from an injury. Its a deep draft at almost every position but QB and you want to go after 3 QB's with our first 3 picks ? I'd say thats a bit myopic and a recipe for disaster. I'd draft one, sign Kolb or Flynn, then sign a FA college qb with a major arm who needs time to develop (Peter Lalich-Great talent-Maturity issues). I share your frustration with the Bills qb position but panic is not the way to build a team. Articles on Peter Lalich: http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears-huddle/2013/03/from-riches-to-rags-and-back-my-interview-with-peter-lalich/ http://www.knowitallfootball.com/2013/02/26/nfl-draft-2013-peter-lalich-the-forgotten-one/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Truth Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Well the Skins took too last year and it looks like that worked out just fine so why not do one up and get three. (sic) You do know it takes 11 guys to play this game? No actually it takes 22 plus back ups, plus special teams. It just so happens that a good QB is by far the most important. Without it, you'll suck. Unless you have a young Ray Lewis and the rest of the Ravens 2002 squad. Which we don't. The reason you are not "getting this argument" is that you're fixated on the QB position. if you take an honest look at our beloved Bills you would see that we desperately need LB'ers, our WR corps is Stevie Johnson and nobody, our only decent TE is coming off ACL surgery on his knee and may not be up to par, our DB's are thin or overmatched, and our OL has lost starter andy Levitre while Eric Pears is coming back from an injury. Its a deep draft at almost every position but QB and you want to go after 3 QB's with our first 3 picks ? I'd say thats a bit myopic and a recipe for disaster. I'd draft one, sign Kolb or Flynn, then sign a FA college qb with a major arm who needs time to develop (Peter Lalich-Great talent-Maturity issues). I share your frustration with the Bills qb position but panic is not the way to build a team. Articles on Peter Lalich: http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-bears-huddle/2013/03/from-riches-to-rags-and-back-my-interview-with-peter-lalich/ http://www.knowitallfootball.com/2013/02/26/nfl-draft-2013-peter-lalich-the-forgotten-one/ I'd be happy to get Flynn and draft 2 in the first 2 rounds. I'll use your words. A "recipe for disaster" is having the Bills operate the same way they have for the past 13 years. I guess we'll take more of the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 We should just use 6 picks on QB with this logic. Why stop at 3? I totally understand that QB is our biggest need and the most important positon. With that being said if the right guy isn't there you can't just take him and hope that it works. Taking the wrong guy early sets your franchise back further (see Gabbert, Blaine or Quinn, Brady or Russell, Jamarcus). Get the right guy and if he isn't there don't panic. Wait a round or two if need be and get the franchise guy next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Ah, the old "throw enough s..t against the wall and see what sticks" approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Truth Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 (edited) We should just use 6 picks on QB with this logic. Why stop at 3? I totally understand that QB is our biggest need and the most important positon. With that being said if the right guy isn't there you can't just take him and hope that it works. Taking the wrong guy early sets your franchise back further (see Gabbert, Blaine or Quinn, Brady or Russell, Jamarcus). Get the right guy and if he isn't there don't panic. Wait a round or two if need be and get the franchise guy next year. I'm not operating from a place of "start winning when the opportunity presents itself". I'm operating from a "win now" place. Do u remember when Sean Patron took the job at New Orleans? What was his 1st move? Lock up Drew Brees at all costs. What were all these other inept organizations doing when Brees was on the market? The Bills were one of them. Go all out on QB. Period. Edited March 30, 2013 by The Voice of Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWins Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 The reason you are not "getting this argument" is that you're fixated on the QB position. if you take an honest look at our beloved Bills you would see that we desperately need LB'ers, our WR corps is Stevie Johnson and nobody, our only decent TE is coming off ACL surgery on his knee and may not be up to par, our DB's are thin or overmatched, and our OL has lost starter andy Levitre while Eric Pears is coming back from an injury. Its a deep draft at almost every position but QB and you want to go after 3 QB's with our first 3 picks ? I'd say thats a bit myopic and a recipe for disaster. I'd draft one, sign Kolb or Flynn, then sign a FA college qb with a major arm who needs time to develop (Peter Lalich-Great talent-Maturity issues). I share your frustration with the Bills qb position but panic is not the way to build a team. Articles on Peter Lalich: http://www.chicagono...h-peter-lalich/ http://www.knowitall...-forgotten-one/ There are still FAs to be signed that may change some of those needs... Get the Best QB at #8... Get a Top WR at #41... Let them grow together... Get another LB and a CB in FA... DHB is still out there as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#34fan Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 We should just use 6 picks on QB with this logic. Why stop at 3? I totally understand that QB is our biggest need and the most important positon. With that being said if the right guy isn't there you can't just take him and hope that it works. Taking the wrong guy early sets your franchise back further (see Gabbert, Blaine or Quinn, Brady or Russell, Jamarcus). Get the right guy and if he isn't there don't panic. Wait a round or two if need be and get the franchise guy next year. x 1,000,000,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I know it sounds crazy. But imagine you, Bills fan, waking up on Day 2 of the draft with 3 new QBs; all drafted higher than Trent Edwards and Ryan Fitzpatrick. We need a QB! We will never win a super bowl without one and that has to be the goal. I can't go another year with a bad QB. Go all in on finding the next Bills franchise QB. At all costs. Once you get one then you draft best player available every time. Ideal Draft: 1. Geno Smith 2. Ryan Nassib 3. Take your best shot Nix/Whaley You can only play one at a time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Truth Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 You can only play one at a time What's your plan for QB? Start TJax? A failure already at 2 organizations. Draft one and hope he works out? Then when he likely doesn't draft another in 3 years? You can only play one at a time Yep open it up for competition. Pick 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 I'm not operating from a place of "start winning when the opportunity presents itself". I'm operating from a "win now" place. Do u remember when Sean Patron took the job at New Orleans? What was his 1st move? Lock up Drew Brees at all costs. What were all these other inept organizations doing when Brees was on the market? The Bills were one of them. Go all out on QB. Period. Brees was coming off of shoulder surgery and the Dolphins picked Culpepper over him. If you could get Drew Brees this year I would sacrifice every draft pick. You are arguing my point for me. There is no Drew Brees out there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Truth Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 Brees was coming off of shoulder surgery and the Dolphins picked Culpepper over him. If you could get Drew Brees this year I would sacrifice every draft pick. You are arguing my point for me. There is no Drew Brees out there!! Yeah, and that's exactly why Nick Saban failed at Miami. He screwed up his QB pick. I think he might have admitted this publicly. However, I still like how he operated. He knew that you have to immediately address the QB position or you're going to be a failure. He didn't say, "oh I hope one falls to me next year." Get some balls and get a QB at all costs. There are good ones in this draft if they have their talents maximized and are developed well in a system. I'm hoping Marrone can provide this. Get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Yeah, and that's exactly why Nick Saban failed at Miami. He screwed up his QB pick. I think he might have admitted this publicly. However, I still like how he operated. He knew that you have to immediately address the QB position or you're going to be a failure. He didn't say, "oh I hope one falls to me next year." Get some balls and get a QB at all costs. There are good ones in this draft if they have their talents maximized and are developed well in a system. I'm hoping Marrone can provide this. Get one. How good has Miami been since this decision? The wrong guy sets you back even further while you can turn your franchise around immediately with the right guy (Luck, RGIII, Wilson). The only guy that I could see doing that this year is Geno Smith and he is not perfect (nor do I think that he will be there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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