3rdand12 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 last season nick hit the wall harder than amanda bynes hits cop cars yes thats the second time ive used that joke. its a good one and i didnt even get one measely lol before. so im gonna keep using it until one of you ungrateful bastards gives me a lol. and it better be a real one, no fake lols, you dont necessarily have to give me a rofl or lmao unless you want to but i do require at least a real lol whos amanda bynes ? last season nick hit the wall harder than amanda bynes hits cop cars yes thats the second time ive used that joke. its a good one and i didnt even get one measely lol before. so im gonna keep using it until one of you ungrateful bastards gives me a lol. and it better be a real one, no fake lols, you dont necessarily have to give me a rofl or lmao unless you want to but i do require at least a real lol who the hell is amanda bynes Just what statistic are you basing this off of. I am not asking because I definitively disagree, just that I don't know. I ask because I looked online and the only stat that people use to grade linebackers is tackles and he led our team in tackles, was 29th in the league and 13th in the AFC? Is there some other better ranking that I can look at? With all due respect, if its just based on ur eyeballing him, your very definitive statement should be taken with a grain of salt. That being said, he did not play as well last year as he did the year before. I just don't know how everyone is coming to this conclusion that HE was the worst (because I know, its not just you). I watched that game. He got taken apart and Wannstadt just watched with thumb up his behind. The beginning of the end..of the season, Gailey, Wannstadt. If Barnett and Wilson weren't the top two tacklers on the team, somebody else would have been..."leading tackler" is, maybe, one of the most mis-leading stats in pro football. Maybe they were the leading tacklers, cuz the offense knows they are the easiest to gain yards on? Still, wish both guys the best...two good dudes. This. very good dudes Ok, so I agree that # of tackles is a fairly useless stat. I only mentioned it because it was the ONLY ONE I could find being used to grade LBs. If eyeballing is the only way to judge a LB, then I agree, he looked like he got beat up pretty often last year (although I am not sure I feel as down on him as some of you), but I gotta believe that the decision to keep or jettison someone is based on something more objective that eyeball e v a l. I mean, this is the team of analytics right? If you are an NFL coach or scout, then maybe you can just eyeball, but is there a truly OBJECTIVE way for the average shmoe to grade LBs? And please don't respond by saying you just know by watching. I can do that, you can do that, JP losman's grandma can do that, but the questions is what happens when you disagree. And just because the other people at the bar agree doesn't make it more objective. Again, I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just asking if anyone out there knows of a good objective way to evaluate LBs. As fans of a team severely lacking in LBs, I feel like we should all be asking this question so that we can evaluate the talent out there. ---------------- Okay, although it may look like the same post, I posted the above and then learned the following which I tried to post, and which got merged into my previous post. Consider this my follow up post ___________________ ACtually, this may help, its still subject to some personal bias, (not a collection of stats that spits out a number), but I suppose you could apply a grade to each criterion and get a number based rating system out of it. Linked below is scouts, Inc. grading system for college LBs, and links to the criteria they use for other positions as well. Unfortunately, both the ILB and OLB links list the evaluation criteria for ILB, but its a nice way that you could go back to tape and make a somewhat objective opinion on LB play. And yes, I just answered my own question. http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=2350653 Meathead . Thats how its done brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Axing the top 2 tacklers (Barnett 112, Wilson 104)? Very interesting. Bills are not deep at LB. I look for them to draft at least LB (2) and sign SS free agent. Searcy gets his shot to start. Wiil youth and speedl be the hall mark of the new defense? Something to ponder. every teams top 2 tacklers will be the middle linebacker and strong safety..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Sad to see him go because he was an enjoyable personality on the team... But its time to make tough decisions. This d cast of characters just couldn't turn the corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clippers of Nfl Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Wow, serious housecleaning goin on at OBD. This is kind of a surprise to me but it seems the new FO and coaches could care less who is a solid citizen or friendly guy...they want some football players. I like the way this is panning out. Next player to be released is??? The buffalo bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsInMaine Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Alec Ogletree in the first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) every teams top 2 tacklers will be the middle linebacker and strong safety..... 2 of the top 4 tacklers were outside backers...Chad Greenway and Jerod Mayo. Barnett played OLB. Edited February 12, 2013 by Nitro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 wow Both are good moves IMHO. Both free lanced too much last season and tried to compensate for others...That never works in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Thank God those guys are gone. It had to happen, much like pruning the rotten leaves off of a tree. These guys were DOA in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I wanted them both back understand the moves. Sucks we cut George, but wasn't surprised with Nick after what we saw of him last year. And then I saw PFF's Evan Silva with Nick Barnett. Anyone have insight as to what these guys saw in him we didn't? Are their rankings that predicated on tackles above all else? Evan Silva @evansilva As mentioned previously, @PFF had Nick Barnett as top-10 4-3 OLB in 2012. @PFF also had George Wilson as a top-8 safety. Both cut by #Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qblax16 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 We are going to have a tough time keeping vets with the Mario signing and it's starting now. So lucky for us we had some average vets we could release now. I hate saying that because I really liked those guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I wanted them both back understand the moves. Sucks we cut George, but wasn't surprised with Nick after what we saw of him last year. And then I saw PFF's Evan Silva with Nick Barnett. Anyone have insight as to what these guys saw in him we didn't? Are their rankings that predicated on tackles above all else? Evan Silva @evansilva As mentioned previously, @PFF had Nick Barnett as top-10 4-3 OLB in 2012. @PFF also had George Wilson as a top-8 safety. Both cut by #Bills. https://twitter.com/...045502240251904 As I've said repeatedly, I love the idea of advanced stats/analytics but you have to be careful about buying into them. Until last year, the All-22 video was not available to the public and thus the "scouting" was done off of videotaped network-televised games. Also, I've seen no proof that the people "breaking down" the video have scouting backgrounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 As I've said repeatedly, I love the idea of advanced stats/analytics but you have to be careful about buying into them. Until last year, the All-22 video was not available to the public and thus the "scouting" was done off of videotaped network-televised games. Also, I've seen no proof that the people "breaking down" the video have scouting backgrounds. While not a certainty, it does stretch the imagination that two top 10 players would be on one of the worst defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 As I've said repeatedly, I love the idea of advanced stats/analytics but you have to be careful about buying into them. Until last year, the All-22 video was not available to the public and thus the "scouting" was done off of videotaped network-televised games. Also, I've seen no proof that the people "breaking down" the video have scouting backgrounds. While not a certainty, it does stretch the imagination that two top 10 players would be on one of the worst defenses. without looking it up--aren't these the same guys who ranked Mallet ahead of Fitz and Thigpen ahead of Sanchez? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVUFootball29 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 (edited) I guess Barnett failed a physical, per Chris Brown http://blogs.buffalo...ailed-physical/ My apologies to 26CornerBlitz. Did not see your post Edited February 12, 2013 by WVUFootball29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I guess Barnett failed a physical, per Chris Brown http://blogs.buffalo...ailed-physical/ My apologies to 26CornerBlitz. Did not see your post No apologies necessary. Easy enough to miss Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 As I've said repeatedly, I love the idea of advanced stats/analytics but you have to be careful about buying into them. Until last year, the All-22 video was not available to the public and thus the "scouting" was done off of videotaped network-televised games. Also, I've seen no proof that the people "breaking down" the video have scouting backgrounds. Agreed - I wonder how much of those ratings are predicated on # of snaps and # of tackles While not a certainty, it does stretch the imagination that two top 10 players would be on one of the worst defenses. I remember Matter2003 had a great post with the best and worst player rankings from PFF back in January and said the Bills players had the 9th highest combined defensive grade. Interesting to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Agreed - I wonder how much of those ratings are predicated on # of snaps and # of tackles I remember Matter2003 had a great post with the best and worst player rankings from PFF back in January and said the Bills players had the 9th highest combined defensive grade. Interesting to say the least. Credibility, meet window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 People grieve differently. Dude's kid brother was killed, he gets a pass for as long as it takes to get over it. Hopefully next year but if not he gets another pass. Why not go 10 years? Plus still drawing a full check. He's got an excuse for the rest of his career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSpeed Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 It seems every year we do this. What I don't understand is why NOW. Are they due roster bonus'? We have no idea who we will get in the draft or in FA. Even if we did there is no guarentee they are going to perform well. Why not wait until after the draft at least to make sure we get the guy we are targeting? I don't really care about them being able to find a job on another team and neither should the Bills so that shouldn't factor in. My point is they are the best we've got (not saying much) until someone takes their spot. And don't give me this BS about "anybody could take their place". If that were so then why weren't they replaced during the season last year? I just don't understand the timing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 My point is they are the best we've got (not saying much) until someone takes their spot. And don't give me this BS about "anybody could take their place". If that were so then why weren't they replaced during the season last year? I just don't understand the timing? I think perhaps that you don't understand the timing because you can't/won't accept that your assumptions might be different to those made by the Bills......let alone that they could be wrong(I'm basing that on your "BS" comment). Let's assume that the Bills "know" that they are going to cut Wilson/Barnett. Is there any benefit in waiting to cut them? In this case it could only have a negative effect as it would be perceived as unfair on the players.....and that could become a negative factor when trying to sign new FAs. Why would the Bills have made the 100% decision to cut them? It all comes back to value for money.....or bang for bucks. In regards to Barnett. Let's assume the Bills grade him as a 5 out of 10 player who played at a 3 last season. Cutting him saved 3.5M(from memory). He is also old and will be 32 next season. Let's also assume that the on field benefit between a 5 player and a 4 player is minimal. The options now are...... Go for a level 6-7 ILB in FA for a small amount more than what you saved with cutting Barnett. Go for a much younger level 5 ILB(with upside) in FA for likely less than what you saved with the cut. Go for a level 4 ILB in FA for a great deal less than what you saved....use the left-over to help sign Levitre/Byrd/FA WR etc......and make do with similar ILB production for a season(unless the draft has found the answer). Unless you run under the assumption that an old Barnett is much better than a 5 out of 10......there is really no logic to keep him as there are always journeymen LBs of similar talent available for a 1 year contract. There is even a decent chance that Barnett could be re-signed with the Bills for Veteran minimums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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