Chan is a great coach...if he gets a great QB

[H2o]

Gailey is not the right guy for the personnel he has. Spiller is undoubtedly the greatest weapon we possess and Gailey continues to not utilize his talents to the fullest extent. Week in and week out we abandon the run game when you have a guy averaging 6.5 ypc. It's stupid, just flat out stupid. There is no justification for Fitz to stand in a shotgun set with an empty backfield as often as he does. Spiller, with receptions added in, averages 7 yards every time he touches the ball. I love Fred. I love his heart, dedication, and the type of football player he has shown himself to be. But with that being said, we have one of the most underutilized talents in the league. If Spiller had as many carries as Adrian Peterson, based solely on the amount of carries and ypc, then Spiller would be leading the NFL right now with 1878 yards and we would be talking about him breaking Eric Dickerson's rushing record. We need to bring in an offensive mind who will build around one of the league's most talented players, CJ Spiller, and get rid of a guy who is just too out of touch to realize what he has. If we do that and get ourselves a good starting QB we will see a completely different product on the field.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

Chan has revealed bad coaching besides just QB related stuff. And in any event, Chan gave us Fitz. So even if it is all about the QB, he is the one who backed Fitz like this.

 

Chan may have given us Fitz, but he also got rid of Trent.

 

If Chan has a different (and better) QB, we win that second Patriots game.

 

Chan is so much better than Jauron, it's not even funny. And I don't care that Jauron had a better record. A broken clock is right twice a day too.

[Max997]

Chan doesn't have a clue how to manage a game, coaches scared, is way too pass happy and clearly can't assemble a staff

 

Chan the OC might be better with a real QB but Chan the HC will suck no matter who his players are

 

If Chan has a different (and better) QB, we win that second Patriots game.

 

Chan is so much better than Jauron, it's not even funny. And I don't care that Jauron had a better record. A broken clock is right twice a day too.

 

Chan is a clone of Jauron, don't see how anyone can think he is a good coach

[CardinalScotts]

name me a great coach without a great QB

 

Chan wouldn't know what the hell to do with a good QB. Don't believe me? Ask Troy Aikman.

Troy Aikman is an 81.5 career passer - under Gailey's two season he averaged 83.2 - despite and advanced age and no Michael Irvin. I don't get what your saying

[Max997]

name me a great coach without a great QB

 

Joe Gibbs won Super Bowls with Mark Rypien and Doug Williams. Jim Harbaugh almost went to the Super Bowl with Amex Smith last year

 

There is a big difference between an offensive play caller with a great QB and a head coach having a clue how to manage a game. Chan the head coach is no different then Jauron, Kotite, Campo and any other clueless retread too afraid to try and win

 

How many great coaches continue to punt from inside the opponents 35?

Edited December 21, 2012 by Max997

[mrags]

It's easier to fine a decent QB and a decent coach than it is an amazing coach, or an amazing QB, or any combination of bad and amazing QB or coach.

 

It's easier to say that Chan would be a good coach if he used his running backs more.

[BisonMan]

Joe Gibbs won Super Bowls with Mark Rypien and Doug Williams. Jim Harbaugh almost went to the Super Bowl with Amex Smith last year

 

There is a big difference between an offensive play caller with a great QB and a head coach having a clue how to manage a game. Chan the head coach is no different then Jauron, Kotite, Campo and any other clueless retread too afraid to try and win

 

How many great coaches continue to punt from inside the opponents 35?

 

Yes, if we go back 20 years or more, we see a different NFL than the pass-centric game that it is today. I know Baltimore won as late as 2000 but since the league changed rules around the passing game, teams without a top flight QBs generally win the big game. Some teams have had both a great QB and a great defense but QB play now dictates success. I've already ceded the point on Harbaugh and Alex Smith in the OP. This is the exception, not the rule.

 

With a lead and Fitz at QB against a weak offensive team, I'd probably punt too. Sometimes the odds don't work out. Ask how going for it worked out for the Hoodie against Manning in the playoffs. It didn't but it was still the right call, IMHO.

[Dean Cain]

Here is a brief summary of Chan's tenure with the Bills

 

Games 1-8: 0-8

Games 9-16: 4-4

Games 17-24: 5-3

Games 25-32: 1-7

Games 33-40: 3-5

Games 41-46: 2-4

 

Gailey's Golden era Games 9-24: 9-7 record.

Gailey's Bad era Games 1-8 & 25-46: 6-24 record.

[BillsVet]

Chan may have given us Fitz, but he also got rid of Trent.

 

If Chan has a different (and better) QB, we win that second Patriots game.

 

Chan is so much better than Jauron, it's not even funny. And I don't care that Jauron had a better record. A broken clock is right twice a day too.

 

Please enlighten us as to why Chan called a play late in the away NE game, with Stevie and C.J. on the field, to a rookie WR running a route he'd never run before?

 

Chan isn't offensively surprising opponents anymore, and I'd venture to say against good opponents they've been terrible since the Cincinnati game last season. And on defense, they're on pace to allow the most points in team history. Chan is what his record says he is: Bad.

 

Moreover, if the talent is better as many say it is, then why isn't the record? Who does that fall on if it's not Gailey?

[San-O]

Please enlighten us as to why Chan called a play late in the away NE game, with Stevie and C.J. on the field, to a rookie WR running a route he'd never run before?

 

Chan isn't offensively surprising opponents anymore, and I'd venture to say against good opponents they've been terrible since the Cincinnati game last season. And on defense, they're on pace to allow the most points in team history. Chan is what his record says he is: Bad.

 

Moreover, if the talent is better as many say it is, then why isn't the record? Who does that fall on if it's not Gailey?

 

The Arizona game, which the Bills won oddly enough, was all I needed to see from Gailey.

 

If I'm G.M., he's gone because of that last straw.

[BillsVet]

The Arizona game, which the Bills won oddly enough, was all I needed to see from Gailey.

 

If I'm G.M., he's gone because of that last straw.

 

I'd already forgotten about that brilliant call to have the wildcat QB throw deep, only to be picked late in the 4th quarter.

 

Or, to have the FG unit run onto the field versus the Rams, only to call TO and pull them off the field to punt from the opponent's 34. Then there's talking about the RB's taking turns when FJ was healthy. The list goes on and on and on...

[Nuncha]

Chan and "great coach" should NEVER be used in the same sentence.

 

He has one of the most dynamic running backs in the NFL and he gives him 7 touches. The strength of this team is running the ball (esp before the o-line injures) and he insists on letting Fitzpicksix throw the ball. The guy is a fool.

 

Here is a brief summary of Chan's tenure with the Bills

 

Games 1-8: 0-8

Games 9-16: 4-4

Games 17-24: 5-3

Games 25-32: 1-7

Games 33-40: 3-5

Games 41-46: 2-4

 

Gailey's Golden era Games 9-24: 9-7 record.

Gailey's Bad era Games 1-8 & 25-46: 6-24 record.

 

 

If you want a good laugh, take a look at his road record, and his record against the AFC east.

[MarkKelso'sHelmet]

Chan is not the man for the job. He has a prolifically effective run game, and a solid offensive line built for running and mauling. Yet he's scared to run. I was done with him after Wade Phillips brought him to his knees. "oh we'd never seen that look before and they took our run game away." sure they did you, you freaking loser. Spread spread spread, run the spread with one of the least effective QBs in the league. Smart thinking.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing only one receiver on the field for 75% of the snaps. And don't give me the BS that the I-formation doesn't work anymore in the NFL. I've seen squeeze formation work plenty of times this year. Chan is in love with the spread attack. Even if the Bills had a great QB, it should still be a primarily run-based offense. I understand why Chan went to the spread attack the first year he was here, but with a solid offensive line now, he refuses to leave his blueprint behind. The NFL is a game for cutthroats and innovators, Chan is neither. He's always going to be a few years behind the curve -- and when he does figure out what works, some other innovator will have come along and made him behind the curve again. Gailey sucks as a coach.

 

Think about it this way, if Chan had OJ Simpson, or Jim Brown, or Adrian Peterson, or Barry Sanders, he would probably only give them 5 touches a game too. Because he loves the spread attack -- it's his offensive identity. Chan won't play to his strengths -- it's run the spread no matter what. Way to go, Chan "Shotgun" Gailey. Take Spiller off the field so you can run the wildcat, which is no longer effective -- again you're behind the curve -- IT WAS EFFECTIVE THREE YEARS AGO. But it takes you 30 games of not working before you realize it doesn't work.

 

YOU'RE ALWAYS BEHIND THE CURVE, CHAN. ALWAYS. YOU'RE A LOSER.

Edited December 21, 2012 by MarkKelso'sHelmet

[mrags]

Chan is not the man for the job. He has a prolifically effective run game, and a solid offensive line built for running and mauling. Yet he's scared to run. I was done with him after Wade Phillips brought him to his knees. "oh we'd never seen that look before and they took our run game away." sure they did you, you freaking loser. Spread spread spread, run the spread with one of the least effective QBs in the league. Smart thinking.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing only one receiver on the field for 75% of the snaps. And don't give me the BS that the I-formation doesn't work anymore in the NFL. I've seen squeeze formation work plenty of times this year. Chan is in love with the spread attack. Even if the Bills had a great QB, it should still be a primarily run-based offense. I understand why Chan went to the spread attack the first year he was here, but with a solid offensive line now, he refuses to leave his blueprint behind. The NFL is a game for cutthroats and innovators, Chan is neither. He's always going to be a few years behind the curve -- and when he does figure out what works, some other innovator will have come along and made him behind the curve again. Gailey sucks as a coach.

 

Think about it this way, if Chan had OJ Simpson, or Jim Brown, or Adrian Peterson, or Barry Sanders, he would probably only give them 5 touches a game too. Because he loves the spread attack -- it's his offensive identity. Chan won't play to his strengths -- it's run the spread no matter what. Way to go, Chan "Shotgun" Gailey. Take Spiller off the field so you can run the wildcat, which is no longer effective -- again you're behind the curve -- IT WAS EFFECTIVE THREE YEARS AGO. But it takes you 30 games of not working before you realize it doesn't work.

 

YOU'RE ALWAYS BEHIND THE CURVE, CHAN. ALWAYS. YOU'RE A LOSER.

Id like to buy you a beer. Next Bills game if your there. Stop by my tailgate.

[Omar Little]

Chan is so much better than Jauron, it's not even funny. And I don't care that Jauron had a better record.

 

Except he isn't. You don't care about record? Good for you. But it says it all in this case. Jauron did a lot more with less talent.

 

Also, the fact that Chan Gailey is so bad that I actually have to talk up Dick Jauron is depressing. How much lower can the Bills sink?

[Meathead]

if chan had marcia he would be a cheater. ok i went too far. he would be belimediocre

[San Jose Bills Fan]

There has been a lot of sniping at Chan Gailey these days but living in the DC/Baltimore area has taught me something lately. Coaches with QBs that play great are considered great and coaches with crappy QBs are considered terrible.

 

Last year, the talk around DC was how horrible a coach Mike Shanahan was and how Kyle Shanahan should never be allowed to coach an offense again. One year and one RGIII later, both are hailed as geniuses. Kyle is now considered a top contender for teams looking for a new HC.

 

On the flip side, while Joe Flacco was playing well (and their defense was healthy), John Harbaugh was considered to be a great coach. Flacco outplayed Tom Brady in the AFC Championship game and was one Lee Evans drop away from the SuperBowl. Now Flacco has regressed (QBR lower than Fitz) and everyone is questioning the job Harbaugh is doing. They fired the OC last week and Flacco did even worse.

 

Looking at a list of the highest rated QBs on ESPN's QBR ranking shows us a list of successful coaches. It is rare that a coach is considered "great" without a really good QB. I'm hard-pressed to find a "great" coach that I can credit with elevating a QB's game considerably. Jim Harbaugh in SF might be the notable exception (Alex Smith).

 

So, if by some miracle the Bills secure an elite QB either through the draft (best hope) or in FA (unlikely), I'm sure the collective wisdom about Chan's coaching ability will turn around. I personally think that Gailey is getting the most out of Fitz's limited talent and that Fitz would do worse in a more conventional offense (with more down field throws and longer patterns). Similarly, the Gailey scheme limits the exposure of our O-Line that still needs work. I've been critical of some calls by Chan but overall, I think he knows the hand he's been dealt and is putting the best face on it.

 

To the first bolded I can't speak to the sentiment in Baltimore but I know that I have a very high regard for John Harbaugh and I think he's trying to get a final read on Flacco before the draft and Flacco's contract are resolved.

 

To your second bolded, you speak of Chan getting the most out of Fitz but that possibly ignores that he lobbied for Fitz and didn't put more pressure on Nix to get a quarterback of the future.

 

Also as far as Fitz "doing worse with a more conventional offense" I think the Bills would be better off is they had a very different offense than the one currently installed.

 

Also as far as limiting exposure to the O-line, that's part of the problem. Before injuries our O-line was a major asset. He should feature the O-line prominently. In the run game.

 

 

Does a great QB automatically make a coach learn how to manage a clock and know when to kick a field goal or go for it on 4th instead of punt?

 

To actually defend the OP post for a moment, when you have a good quarterback, more things go in favor of you and as a head coach you end up making more good decisions because of the increased good situations you find yourself in. But I think he'd still be a mediocre head coach.

 

Chan doesn't care about defense or special teams. He lost to Georgia 6 straight times at Tech

 

Ouch. And his record against the AFC East is horrible. He routinely loses games to his most important competitors.

 

As a Ga Tech grad, this is a painful reminder. However, GA Tech is not a football school and Georgia is. If GA Tech offered degrees in basket weaving like UGA, they could compete!

 

I've heard that Tech is a much better academic school than Georgia. But still, 0-6?

 

A great QB would help hide many of CG's deficiencies as a HC. His team would likely be winning and his Offense would look spectacular and dynamic. He would definitely IMO be considered a great coach.

Unfortunately he wouldn't be a great coach. He wouldn't even be a decent coach, which everyone would likely learn at the first showing of true adversity or bad luck. The wheels would come off, everything would come to a grinding halt and his true abilities would become apparent.

 

IMO CG is a great designer of one type of offense. Given the correct personnel, his Offense could be spectacular. This doesn't mean that he has all of the myriad of abilities that a HC needs....in fact he has very few.

 

yeah sure and dick jaurson is a hall of famer

 

 

edit: i spelled his name wrong on purpose, because i have so little respect for him.

 

Good explanation but I'm not sure I buy it.

 

 

we have one of the most underutilized talents in the league. If Spiller had as many carries as Adrian Peterson, based solely on the amount of carries and ypc, then Spiller would be leading the NFL right now with 1878 yards and we would be talking about him breaking Eric Dickerson's rushing record.

 

I think you're in error thinking that Spiller could handle AP's workload. Far from it IMO.

 

Chan is so much better than Jauron, it's not even funny. And I don't care that Jauron had a better record. A broken clock is right twice a day too.

 

How often should we expect broken clocks to be right over the course of a season?

 

Because Jauron was right more often than Gailey in that criteria.

 

name me a great coach without a great QB

 

Joe Gibbs was already mentioned.

 

Bud Grant was another great football coach IMO.

 

Chuck Knox was also a great football coach, IMO.

 

I also think that George Allen was a great football coach.

 

None of them had a great quarterback but all were great coaches in my book.

[reddogblitz]

I would really like to see this offense run by an accurate QB.

[starrymessenger]

 

 

I'm figuring that we agree on the main basis of things....I was just being pedantic over the difference between "great" and "considered great".....which is what I do sometimes, please forgive

 

In regards to the lesser points....

I am certainly no expert, and I accept that CG would likely change and amp up his offense even more with a legit QB.....however...I watch Fitz throw balls that not only regularly totally miss players, but more importantly rarely hit them in stride. Under the current offensive system, if we had a QB that not only could hit the WRs in stride but could also throw an accurate deep ball(and mid-short ball)....the offense would move from being "relatively productive" to "fantastic" IMO....without needing to fundamentally change it to suit a better QB.

You were right the first time. This time, not so much.

HC in the NFL is a very tough assignment. It's not surprising that relatively few people do it well. It demands many different altitudes and abilities. Almost all of which Chan has regrettably demonstrated he does not possess.

[djp14150]

This is true....stars are considered great if they play on great teams but they are an afterthought if they play on bad teams.

 

Is it the talent or the coach? What complicates it even more is that if you have alot of talent but the system isnt designed towatd the talent you have then your team will under perform.

 

Here a problem with the OPs argument....

 

If the issue is not having a great QB then why not draft for one? Why not trade for one...wait they did do that...

 

The biggest factor by far in young QB development is having stability in coach/off coordinator.

 

What people forgot with Alwx Smith and JP Losman is that in their first 4 years they had a different OC each year.

 

The many examples of UDA success/failure with a new team has alot to do with how well they match the system or the new team tailors their approcah to the players strengths.