thewildrabbit Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) The NFL is not a qb driven league, it is an elite qb driven league. Look at all the trends and how they influence each other and there it is. It is a given that the teams with the best qbs are going deep into the playoffs and that the Super Bowl almost guarantees a battle between the league's top 2 qbs mano a mano. Manning vs Brady 2 was exactly the type of matchup they want to market. It is as simple as that. This team needs a guy that will be a top 5 talent league wide. Without that guy absolutely nothing will bring a Championship to Buffalo, or any other NFL team for that matter. This is exactly the same mentality that has kept Buddy Nix from drafting a QB the last 3 years. Because in his mind there was no"super duper, "elite" franchise player that fell to the buffalo Bills.Mike Shanahan went out and created his teams destiny without having a QB FALL to him. The 49ers had a former #1 overall QB playing well for them in Alex Smith and yet still took Collin Kaepernick with a 2nd round pick. The Seattle Seahawks went and traded for QB Matt Flynn and then drafted a QB in the 3rd round last year. Everyone said Russell Wilson was to short to be a winner, so he didn't fit Buddy Nix's idea of an "elite" QB. The Cincy Bengals took Andy Dalton in the 2nd round and he was another QB not graded as 'elite" So, while the imbecile Buddy Nix and his scout staff of buffoons are waiting for that "elite" QB to fall to them in the draft. Other teams are taking a chance and winning with less then elite QB's as the Seahawks, Bengals, and 49ers are all in the playoffs with non elite QB's Edited December 22, 2012 by FeartheLosing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Does a great QB automatically make a coach learn how to manage a clock and know when to kick a field goal or go for it on 4th instead of punt? Or learn the slightest thing about defense and special teams? Or play his best players in critical situations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 This is exactly the same mentality that has kept Buddy Nix from drafting a QB the last 3 years. Because in his mind there was no"super duper, "elite" franchise player that fell to the buffalo Bills.Mike Shanahan went out and created his teams destiny without having a QB FALL to him. The 49ers had a former #1 overall QB playing well for them in Alex Smith and yet still took Collin Kaepernick with a 2nd round pick. The Seattle Seahawks went and traded for QB Matt Flynn and then drafted a QB in the 3rd round last year. Everyone said Russell Wilson was to short to be a winner, so he didn't fit Buddy Nix's idea of an "elite" QB. The Cincy Bengals took Andy Dalton in the 2nd round and he was another QB not graded as 'elite" So, while the imbecile Buddy Nix and his scout staff of buffoons are waiting for that "elite" QB to fall to them in the draft. Other teams are taking a chance and winning with less then elite QB's as the Seahawks, Bengals, and 49ers are all in the playoffs with non elite QB's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 What is your definition of great, this guy is far from it. So if he had john elway we would be going to the superbowl! No friggin way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 i would say "great" is going a little too far.......15-30ish = not that great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) This guy has been fired how many times. hopefully another one will be coming. Tired of his act. Edited December 22, 2012 by roush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMan Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 What is your definition of great, this guy is far from it. So if he had john elway we would be going to the superbowl! No friggin way Look at the Redskins and/or Colts this year. The Skins went 5-11 last year. Now they lead the NFC East. Similarly, the Colts went from the worst team in the league to the top Wild Card spot. Although they changed head coaches, the new one has been out almost the entire season. QBs make/break teams now, unfortunately. Would the Bills be in the Super Bowl this year with Andrew Luck? No. Would they have a chance within a couple of years? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 This is exactly the same mentality that has kept Buddy Nix from drafting a QB the last 3 years. Because in his mind there was no"super duper, "elite" franchise player that fell to the buffalo Bills.Mike Shanahan went out and created his teams destiny without having a QB FALL to him. The 49ers had a former #1 overall QB playing well for them in Alex Smith and yet still took Collin Kaepernick with a 2nd round pick. The Seattle Seahawks went and traded for QB Matt Flynn and then drafted a QB in the 3rd round last year. Everyone said Russell Wilson was to short to be a winner, so he didn't fit Buddy Nix's idea of an "elite" QB. The Cincy Bengals took Andy Dalton in the 2nd round and he was another QB not graded as 'elite" So, while the imbecile Buddy Nix and his scout staff of buffoons are waiting for that "elite" QB to fall to them in the draft. Other teams are taking a chance and winning with less then elite QB's as the Seahawks, Bengals, and 49ers are all in the playoffs with non elite QB's Exactly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 (edited) There has been a lot of sniping at Chan Gailey these days but living in the DC/Baltimore area has taught me something lately. Coaches with QBs that play great are considered great and coaches with crappy QBs are considered terrible. DC .... Mike Shanahan .....while Joe Flacco was playing well (and their defense was healthy), John Harbaugh was considered to be a great coach. Looking at a list of the highest rated QBs on ESPN's QBR ranking shows us a list of successful coaches. It is rare that a coach is considered "great" without a really good QB. I'm hard-pressed to find a "great" coach that I can credit with elevating a QB's game considerably. Jim Harbaugh in SF might be the notable exception (Alex Smith). (....) I personally think that Gailey is getting the most out of Fitz's limited talent and that Fitz would do worse in a more conventional offense (with more down field throws and longer patterns). Similarly, the Gailey scheme limits the exposure of our O-Line that still needs work.(...) You have a valid point that a great QB can "make" the coach. Hence, Bart Scott's quip that Bill Belichek was "one Mo Lewis hit away from the unemployment line". Yet IMO the criticism of Gailey goes deeper than a better QB can fix. I haven't watched the Ravens or Redskins games in enough detail to comment whether any of the above apply: 1. Play calling on 3rd and <3. Our best players are RB. Time again Chan will empty the backfield and call for a deep pass, a low percentage play 2. Lack of a power running game/Lack of adjustment on pass blocking. We dusted off a power running game against KC, and that's the last we've seen of it. We have a strong blocking TE and FB who also show some ability to receive. We have good pass catching RBs. Yet no formation takes advantage of these. If Spiller sucks at pass protection, why not develop formations that leave him in and bring in pass blocking help from Lee Smith and Corey Mac? 3. Game and clock management. 'Nuff said. 4. Lack of oversight/supervision of the Defense. He's the head coach. He behaves more as an OC and "hands off" the D. That doesn't cut it. 5. Keeping many gimmick and gadget players on the roster at the expense of needed depth- eg, kickoff specialist, Brad Smith, TJax who has never dressed. Likely there were some LB and WR available who could have helped us, but we didn't have roster spots for them. Gadgets only help you when your fundamental positions are capably filled. 6. Lack of in-game adjustments, both on O and on D (where the buck still stops with Chan, he is the HC). Now maybe all that applies to John Harbaugh and Mike Shanahan as well. Or maybe not. In any event, I do completely disagree that Chan is getting the most out of his players this year. I think we are seeing regression, the classic signs of a head coach who has lost the team. Edited December 22, 2012 by Hopeful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 This is exactly the same mentality that has kept Buddy Nix from drafting a QB the last 3 years. Because in his mind there was no"super duper, "elite" franchise player that fell to the buffalo Bills.Mike Shanahan went out and created his teams destiny without having a QB FALL to him. The 49ers had a former #1 overall QB playing well for them in Alex Smith and yet still took Collin Kaepernick with a 2nd round pick. The Seattle Seahawks went and traded for QB Matt Flynn and then drafted a QB in the 3rd round last year. Everyone said Russell Wilson was to short to be a winner, so he didn't fit Buddy Nix's idea of an "elite" QB. The Cincy Bengals took Andy Dalton in the 2nd round and he was another QB not graded as 'elite" So, while the imbecile Buddy Nix and his scout staff of buffoons are waiting for that "elite" QB to fall to them in the draft. Other teams are taking a chance and winning with less then elite QB's as the Seahawks, Bengals, and 49ers are all in the playoffs with non elite QB's Amen. Considering their fixation with Fitzpatrick and their failure to acquire a young QB talent, I question their ability to evaluate the position. I'm not sure I trust them to do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 To the OP: I'm gonna refute your argument, and to do so I submit Philip Rivers and Norv Turner. One is (or at least has been) considered a very good QB, while Norv Turner has always been thought of as a coach who gets in the way of his team's greater success. Others have called Dungy a coach that couldn't take his team over the top, and one that may have held Peyton Manning back from winning more than one title. Granted, Belicheck was never THE Bill Belicheck as a head coach, until Brady fell into his lap. But the long and short of this is that there are a lot of ways to the promised land, and fewer ways to sustained success in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I think all the OP is saying is Great QBs make Great Head Coaches. And without a great QB, we'll never know what kind of coach Gailey is. As much as he's made questionable decisions this year, I agree with that statement. Every decision he's made has been knowing his QB is limited and his defense is questionable. Good defense and a great QB makes Bill Walsh look like Bill Walsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronc24 Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I think all the OP is saying is Great QBs make Great Head Coaches. And without a great QB, we'll never know what kind of coach Gailey is. As much as he's made questionable decisions this year, I agree with that statement. Every decision he's made has been knowing his QB is limited and his defense is questionable. Good defense and a great QB makes Bill Walsh look like Bill Walsh. Yet he has blindly hitched his wagon to that limited QB for three years and has failed to hold his DC accountable for the defense. That is the antithesis of a great coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Yet he has blindly hitched his wagon to that limited QB for three years and has failed to hold his DC accountable for the defense. That is the antithesis of a great coach. Solid point. Especially if he has control over personnel and coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Chan is so much better than Jauron, it's not even funny. And I don't care that Jauron had a better record. A broken clock is right twice a day too. You are what your record says you are. Chan is what his record says he is, too. Yet he has blindly hitched his wagon to that limited QB for three years and has failed to hold his DC accountable for the defense. That is the antithesis of a great coach. Marauder and I have disagreed many a time, but it's hard to disagree with this. Great coaches hold people (coordinators, line coaches, players) accountable. Gailey does not seem to be holding people accountable. I think all the OP is saying is Great QBs make Great Head Coaches. And without a great QB, we'll never know what kind of coach Gailey is. As much as he's made questionable decisions this year, I agree with that statement. Every decision he's made has been knowing his QB is limited and his defense is questionable. Good defense and a great QB makes Bill Walsh look like Bill Walsh. I think the point is, where does the buck stop? If the defense is questionable, why is it questionable? Gailey's the head coach; the buck stops with him. Independent of the quarterback, there are too many questionable decisions (game management, play calling , on and on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 How do you know that Chan didn't say that and got over ruled? I'm definitely not "pro-Gailey". I hope that I wake up on New Years Eve morning and read that Chan Gailey has been fired by the Bills. But I have no idea what Chan did or didn't say in the draft "war room". If zinc can be overruled by the coach, we need to start over. That isn't how it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 If zinc can be overruled by the coach, we need to start over. That isn't how it works I'm not sure who "zinc" is but there's a difference between "overruled" and "recommended." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BisonMan Posted December 22, 2012 Author Share Posted December 22, 2012 You are what your record says you are. Chan is what his record says he is, too. So, Belicheat was a crappy coach and then suddenly got good? How about Shanahan from 2011 to 2012. No other real significant personnel changes except QB? Was he a 5-11 coach one day and suddenly a division winner the next? Are there drugs involved here? Great coaches hold people (coordinators, line coaches, players) accountable. Gailey does not seem to be holding people accountable. Gailey fired the DC last year for poor performance. Wanstache could be next, who knows. However, lots of teams have poor sides of the ball but the coaches are still "great". Consider NE, who last year had one of the worst defenses in the league. Did anyone call Belicheat a lousy coach? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 I'm not sure who "zinc" is but there's a difference between "overruled" and "recommended." Zinc is the reason I just threw my iPad out the window. The coach provides the GM with the characteristics he looks of at each position. The GM relays that to the scouts. The scouts provide a synopsis of each player to the personnel people, who rank them. Te GM drafts them and the coach maximizes them. It is more circular than linear. The GM is the focal point, but not the be all end all. Too many focus on the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Zinc is the reason I just threw my iPad out the window. As a rule I don't supplement too much. I try to eat a well-rounded diet. But it sounds like you should stop taking Zinc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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