Spygate:What you DIDN'T know

[cmjoyce113]

 

This is a link to an interview with Bryan O'Leary who wrote the book Spygate: The Untold Story. I read the preview on Amazon.com and it looks very interesting.

 

This talks about how all of the materials were destroyed right at the Patriots facility without even reviewing them. It also mentioned about how the Patriots messed around with radio signals where the Patriots had an over ride in Brady's helmet where they could talk to him all the way to the snap.

 

This sounds a lot more messy than it was portrayed and pisses me off that it was covered up the way it was.

 

It is crazy to look at this and bounty gate and look at the vast difference in punishment and coverage...it's total BS.

 

 

Just thought I'd share this since it's Patriots week.

[TheMadCap]

Makes me sad actually. If they would have busted NE* prior to thier first SB "victory" , we wouldn't have to hear about thier stupid kicker dynasty...

 

[3rdand12]

bellcheck just got fined 50k for the pushing/grabbing of an official. i feel better. Means he's no longer safe.

when we beat them again i will feel Much better.

Edited September 27, 2012 by 3rdand12

[Ted William's frozen head]

That makes me angry . I could buy a lot of liquid nitrogen for 50K!

[The Senator]

The level of dishonestly, deceit, contempt for the rules of the game and good sportsmanship, and downright criminality displayed by Belicheat*, Brady*, and the entire Cheatriettes* team* and organization* is so severe, and so far beyond what even I surmised, that I can only respond with this single monosyllabic palindrome...

 

 

Wow.

[gomper]

To me the most flagrant and useful episode was right before SB36. On the day before the game, the Rams installed some new formations/pass routes that they've never used. Martz is still convinced that the Pats knew exactly what play they were going to run and when they were going to run it. More importantly, for the Pats, the defensive call to combat it.

[Doc]

The cheating by videotaping is well-known. The additional frequencies has been speculated and even mentioned by Flutie, but never before put down in writing. It would explain a lot.

[NoSaint]

The cheating by videotaping is well-known. The additional frequencies has been speculated and even mentioned by Flutie, but never before put down in writing. It would explain a lot.

Thing is - stuff like this gets out. People make comments if its out of the ordinary. Fluties comment leads me to believe we didn't do all the same stuff here, but generally I'd bet most of what you hear with the pats has similar versions around the league.

[Saint Doug]

bellcheck just got fined 50k for the pushing/grabbing of an official. i feel better. Means he's no longer safe.

when we beat them again i will feel Much better.

 

I dunno. Belicheat pushes a scab ref. Next thing we hear is that the real refs have reached a deal to come back. That's fishy.

[Jim in Anchorage]

I wish the Bills had thought of/done this first. I would gladly take fans on the Pats forum whining about something that happened 10 years ago in exchange for 3 SB rings.

[DC Tom]

I dunno. Belicheat pushes a scab ref. Next thing we hear is that the real refs have reached a deal to come back. That's fishy.

 

Fishy will be when a team that had ten penalties last week doesn't have a single holding or pass interference penalty called this week.

 

I'm sure Kraft's check has already cleared.

[ThurmasThoman]

I wish the Bills had thought of/done this first. I would gladly take fans on the Pats forum whining about something that happened 10 years ago in exchange for 3 SB rings.

 

i used to say that.

 

life is about experiences though, and what they mean to you 5, 10, 15, 25 years later.

 

when the bills win the super bowl, its going to be one of the most amazing experiences of my life. its something that ill always be able to look back on and say "wow.. it actually happened... we won the super bowl!"

 

i dont want that tarnished.

 

its like... youre standing on the tee box on a par 3, 150 yards out.

 

your first shot goes in the water.

your second shot shanks into the woods.

your third shot you hole it.

 

did you get a hole in 1? well, i suppose you got your ball into the hole in one shot, and lots of golfers cheat, so hey, you can tell everyone you got a hole in one, right? .................. right?

 

it just feels wrong.

[Doc]

Thing is - stuff like this gets out. People make comments if its out of the ordinary. Fluties comment leads me to believe we didn't do all the same stuff here, but generally I'd bet most of what you hear with the pats has similar versions around the league.

Flutie's comment does tell me the Bills didn't do that, and Ross Tucker's comment that Bills players on IR didn't practice with the team tells me the same thing. As for illegal videotaping, why didn't Belichick out other teams if it was so prevalent, so as to save face?

[NoSaint]

 

Flutie's comment does tell me the Bills didn't do that, and Ross Tucker's comment that Bills players on IR didn't practice with the team tells me the same thing. As for illegal videotaping, why didn't Belichick out other teams if it was so prevalent, so as to save face?

 

I could be wrong, and was a bit stream of thought in my last post.

 

As to why he didn't point fingers - there could be a ton of explanations. The locker rooms he'd know it to be happening in would likely be his own friends, many people don't spill the beans just cause they get caught, wanting it to die fast.... I dunno. I suspect BB didn't just randomly do this stuff for the first, and only, time ever. Maybe elements, but not on a global level

 

We hear rumors of frequencies being jammed, accusations of listening in, etc.... I think BB pushes the boundaries, but I don't think he's totally unique.

Edited September 28, 2012 by NoSaint

[Jim in Anchorage]

i used to say that.

 

life is about experiences though, and what they mean to you 5, 10, 15, 25 years later.

 

when the bills win the super bowl, its going to be one of the most amazing experiences of my life. its something that ill always be able to look back on and say "wow.. it actually happened... we won the super bowl!"

 

i dont want that tarnished.

 

its like... youre standing on the tee box on a par 3, 150 yards out.

 

your first shot goes in the water.

your second shot shanks into the woods.

your third shot you hole it.

 

did you get a hole in 1? well, i suppose you got your ball into the hole in one shot, and lots of golfers cheat, so hey, you can tell everyone you got a hole in one, right? .................. right?

 

it just feels wrong.

Said this before, will say it again. What was unique about what the Pats did? Why is it since I started watching football in the 70's HC's and coordinators ALWAYS held a play book to their mouth's when calling play's? Is it possible non Pat teams have been doing this for decades and just never got caught?

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

I hate the pats* they will always be a dirty tarnished *.

[NoSaint]

 

Said this before, will say it again. What was unique about what the Pats did? Why is it since I started watching football in the 70's HC's and coordinators ALWAYS held a play book to their mouth's when calling play's? Is it possible non Pat teams have been doing this for decades and just never got caught?

 

That's what I'm getting at. He might have tweaks but I doubt he is the only guy to head this way. He might have done it "better" but the unique factor seems off.

[Doc]

Said this before, will say it again. What was unique about what the Pats did? Why is it since I started watching football in the 70's HC's and coordinators ALWAYS held a play book to their mouth's when calling play's? Is it possible non Pat teams have been doing this for decades and just never got caught?

Then why punish them? If it was truly nothing unique, it would have been a non-issue and a simple "everyone does it" would have sufficed. And why hurriedly destroy the evidence?

[NoSaint]

 

Then why punish them? If it was truly nothing unique, it would have been a non-issue and a simple "everyone does it" would have sufficed. And why hurriedly destroy the evidence?

 

Because the league is full of dirty secrets that if revealed and left unpunished threaten the integrity?

 

Do you also believe Gregg Williams was the only coach with a "bounty program?"

[Jim in Anchorage]

Said this before, will say it again. What was unique about what the Pats did? Why is it since I started watching football in the 70's HC's and coordinators ALWAYS held a play book to their mouth's when calling play's? Is it possible non Pat teams have been doing this for decades and just never got caught?

Then why punish them? If it was truly nothing unique, it would have been a non-issue and a simple "everyone does it" would have sufficed. And why hurriedly destroy the evidence?

[Doc]

So basically the NFL is full of cheaters, and instead of bringing it to light or changing it, they publicly scapegoat/humiliate one team? Okay, it's a theory.

[NoSaint]

So basically the NFL is full of cheaters, and instead of bringing it to light or changing it, they publicly scapegoat/humiliate one team? Okay, it's a theory.

 

That they aren't hunting for it but when a Mangini or cerullo pushes the issue with formal complaints thy are forced to act. Otherwise they'd prefer a private warning and to sweep it under the rug generally.

[boyst]

That they aren't hunting for it but when a Mangini or cerullo pushes the issue with formal complaints thy are forced to act. Otherwise they'd prefer a private warning and to sweep it under the rug generally.

And where is Mangini and all of those "out of the box" coaches. They're swept under the rug.

[NoSaint]

 

And where is Mangini and all of those "out of the box" coaches. They're swept under the rug.

 

Exactly - who got the worst punishment between bellichek and Mangini?

[boyst]

Exactly - who got the worst punishment between bellichek and Mangini?

Mangini was not all that amazing as a HC, his tenure since has proved it...

 

But, if the NFL was going to love a franchise, they'd love it to be NY. When is there never a good NJ team?

[Meathead]

what have they won since they got caught cheating?

 

nuthin

[Doc]

That they aren't hunting for it but when a Mangini or cerullo pushes the issue with formal complaints thy are forced to act. Otherwise they'd prefer a private warning and to sweep it under the rug generally.

I look at it this way. Barry Bonds was busted for steroids. You could say "everyone does them." Does that mean Bonds should get a free pass?

[NoSaint]

 

I look at it this way. Barry Bonds was busted for steroids. You could say "everyone does them." Does that mean Bonds should get a free pass?

 

Not at all implied by me. You are the one saying no one else does it. Get caught, get punished. I think a lot of people are on the list - just like steroids though

Edited September 28, 2012 by NoSaint

[Doc]

Not at all implied by me. You are the one saying no one else does it. Get caught, get punished. I think a lot of people are on the list - just like steroids though

Well then, the question would be whether it's more believable to say that one did/few do it or that most/all do it?

[NoSaint]

what have they won since they got caught cheating?

 

nuthin

 

Like 85% of their games and the first 59 mins of two superbowls,

 

It's not like the wheels came off. They won a couple last second games to finish the seasons before, lost a couple last second ones after

 

Their combined record might even be better since honestly. Atleast on par.

 

But yes, no rings.

 

 

Well then, the question would be whether it's more believable to say that one did/few do it or that most/all do it?

I don't think he's the only one.

 

It might not be all of them, all the time, doing the exact same thing.... But most if not all are doing what they can to get ahead.

[Meathead]

just takes a tiny advantage at that level to turn a sb loss into a win. and the advantage they got wasnt tiny

 

thats the thing that galls me the most. so many people disregard the value of what they had. they have the ability to break down an opponents coding system. theres only so much alteration you can do with the coding system so basically they make a translator and can have a first halfs signals decoded by halftime at the latest. massive advantage

 

then of course the point the op made, that they just allowed everything to go into the incinerator no questions asked for a couple picks and a fine. big whoopie. how about a well deserved asterisk. three of em in fact

[NoSaint]

just takes a tiny advantage at that level to turn a sb loss into a win. and the advantage they got wasnt tiny

 

thats the thing that galls me the most. so many people disregard the value of what they had. they have the ability to break down an opponents coding system. theres only so much alteration you can do with the coding system so basically they make a translator and can have a first halfs signals decoded by halftime at the latest. massive advantage

 

then of course the point the op made, that they just allowed everything to go into the incinerator no questions asked for a couple picks and a fine. big whoopie. how about a well deserved asterisk. three of em in fact

 

So they went from the best team in the league, to the best team in the league that doesn't match up well against the giants?

 

They've lost 16 regular season games in 5 seasons since, including a season without their hall of fame qb. Cut that 5 loss season without brady and they've averaged less than 3 regular season losses since. Even with it, it's barely over 3 losses a season.

 

In those 4 seasons with Brady they've been to the Super Bowl twice.

 

I just get frustrated by the idea that they fell apart since because the giants beat them twice.

 

[Jim in Anchorage]

just takes a tiny advantage at that level to turn a sb loss into a win. and the advantage they got wasnt tiny

 

thats the thing that galls me the most. so many people disregard the value of what they had. they have the ability to break down an opponents coding system. theres only so much alteration you can do with the coding system so basically they make a translator and can have a first halfs signals decoded by halftime at the latest. massive advantage

 

then of course the point the op made, that they just allowed everything to go into the incinerator no questions asked for a couple picks and a fine. big whoopie. how about a well deserved asterisk. three of em in fact

And you would have preferred the franchise dissolved? Kraft a lifetime NFL ban? Hell any one connected with the team a life time ban?

Christ I am sick of people blaming a chicken s*** video incident by the Pats for the Bills sucking for going on a generation.

[Best Player Available]

And you would have preferred the franchise dissolved? Kraft a lifetime NFL ban? Hell any one connected with the team a life time ban?

Christ I am sick of people blaming a chicken s*** video incident by the Pats for the Bills sucking for going on a generation.

 

But,But, they may have used expanded frequencies.........

[MattM]

I'm sort of sick of the Pats* apologists on this board. Facts are, they were the only ones caught doing this and were suspected of doing a whole lot more. As this article from the NYT points out, citing two unnamed NFL Competition Committee sources, the Pats* were suspected and accused internally over and over again of doing scuzzy things, much more so than anyone else. I also recall folks like Ross Tucker as noted above (who played for them during the period in question) as saying they pushed the envelope whereever they could and got themselves to sleep at night with the "but everyone does it" mantra when folks like Ross who played elsewhere knew that not to be true. How about Del Rio and Marinelli saying that their headsets conked out at mysterious key times during key drives, all of the "referee malfunctions" we've seen with our own eyes over the years and on and on. Personally, I suspect that they got away with more than they were caught with and that they are a far outlier in terms of the Bell curve of questionable behavior in the NFL:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/sports/football/11nfl.html?_r=0

 

 

Personally, this quote says all I need to know:

 

"The N.F.L. team executive said the Patriots were the subject of most of the accusations discussed in the rules committee’s deliberations. The team’s recent success and tight-lipped approach, as personified by Belichick, has played a role.

“They were the only team, really,” the executive said. “Clearly, they were the team mentioned far more than anybody else.”

[ganesh]

i used to say that.

 

life is about experiences though, and what they mean to you 5, 10, 15, 25 years later.

 

when the bills win the super bowl, its going to be one of the most amazing experiences of my life. its something that ill always be able to look back on and say "wow.. it actually happened... we won the super bowl!"

 

i dont want that tarnished.

 

its like... youre standing on the tee box on a par 3, 150 yards out.

 

it just feels wrong.

 

100% agree....When I grew up in India in the 70s and 80s, the country cupboard was bare with regards to sports other than the 8 Gold Medals in Men's hockey prior to their Independence. Then in 1983, the Indian Cricket Team came out of nowhere to win the World Cup in England beating the mighty West Indies. To this day, I still remember every frame of those 8 hours and the post game celebrations as shown on TV 29 years ago and gets replayed in our mind over and over....That win changed how the team was perceived and they have gone on to be a powerhouse for the past two decades that now India is the financial capital for Cricket. Simply Amazing, how something changes our lives dramatically.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

 

Like 85% of their games and the first 59 mins of two super bowls.

 

By that yardstick the Bills would make the playoffs every year.

 

PTR

[BuffaloWings]

Fishy will be when a team that had ten penalties last week doesn't have a single holding or pass interference penalty called this week.

 

I'm sure Kraft's check has already cleared.

 

I think it all comes down to politics...Kraft does seem to have Goodell's ear more than any other owner, so I wouldn't doubt that the league favors the Patriots on certain calls.

 

That said, I'm wondering if there will be many phantom calls or non-calls this weekend. After Monday's debacle, I think the league doesn't want any controversy regarding the officiating...be it questionable possession calls or penalties. Granted, they may not care if the Bills get hosed on a few calls because they're a small market and it would all be hidden among the several Sunday games, but I can't imagine they'd want anything controversial involving any teams with large fan bases.

Edited September 28, 2012 by BuffaloWings

[NoSaint]

 

 

By that yardstick the Bills would make the playoffs every year.

 

PTR

 

touche - i knew the 59 mins comment would get beaten up, but they have averaged better than 13-3 and have been down to the wire in 2 superbowls out of the 4 seasons with brady post-spygate

[Doc]

I'm sort of sick of the Pats* apologists on this board. Facts are, they were the only ones caught doing this and were suspected of doing a whole lot more. As this article from the NYT points out, citing two unnamed NFL Competition Committee sources, the Pats* were suspected and accused internally over and over again of doing scuzzy things, much more so than anyone else. I also recall folks like Ross Tucker as noted above (who played for them during the period in question) as saying they pushed the envelope whereever they could and got themselves to sleep at night with the "but everyone does it" mantra when folks like Ross who played elsewhere knew that not to be true. How about Del Rio and Marinelli saying that their headsets conked out at mysterious key times during key drives, all of the "referee malfunctions" we've seen with our own eyes over the years and on and on. Personally, I suspect that they got away with more than they were caught with and that they are a far outlier in terms of the Bell curve of questionable behavior in the NFL:

 

http://www.nytimes.c...11nfl.html?_r=0

 

 

Personally, this quote says all I need to know:

 

"The N.F.L. team executive said the Patriots were the subject of most of the accusations discussed in the rules committee’s deliberations. The team’s recent success and tight-lipped approach, as personified by Belichick, has played a role.

“They were the only team, really,” the executive said. “Clearly, they were the team mentioned far more than anybody else.”

This.