Criticism of Wanny

[QB Bills]

Not when it's looked at critically. Without question, there is enough talent on the D line to not only be really good, but downright dominant.

 

Every other position is either a work in progress like the CBs or is manned by nothing more than adequate talent at the present time. I 'like' our guys, but I don't see Wilson and Byrd as great safeties based on what I've seen in pass defense, and our LBs leave a lot to be desired.

 

Actually, I should say our entire D is a work in progress given their short amount of time together in the scheme. When I look at defenses like San Fran, I see a group that's been together in a scheme and is really comfortable in its execution. We seem to have a ways to go yet in that regard. I just think we're in for a lot of growing pains.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I disagree. I think both Wilson and Byrd are far better than Whitner, and he's starting for the best D in football. In the salary cap era, you're not going to have pro bowlers at every position no matter what you do. The Bills have 3 on the D-line and another one possibly with Byrd (might be a stretch, I know). Barnett is an above average linebacker. The CBs aren't horrible (other than McKelvin, and he's way down on the depth chart). I think that's more than enough talent. How they complement each other is up to the signal caller.

 

You can't honestly tell me that if Wade Phillips was coaching this D, it wouldn't be way better. Again, its still way too early to make any conclusions about anything, and hopefully we see some improvements, but I've got my doubts.

 

This team is missing two pieces from being really really dangerous. Above average defensive coaching and a good QB (not even elite..just good).

[The Big Cat]

Houston has a really good Defensive Coordinator whose defense in tops in the NFL right now even though they lost one of the best DEs in the game.

 

 

I'm seriously not trying to start anything. Even those around here who hated Wade as a HC still loved him as DC...the NFL job he is most suited for over the last 30 years.

 

I don't even know how this guy even spends 5 minutes unemployeed in this league.

 

Except for the fact that Mario's not a 3-4 DE, and not suited to play 3-4 OLB, you're correct...

[K-9]

I disagree. I think both Wilson and Byrd are far better than Whitner, and he's starting for the best D in football. In the salary cap era, you're not going to have pro bowlers at every position no matter what you do. The Bills have 3 on the D-line and another one possibly with Byrd (might be a stretch, I know). Barnett is an above average linebacker. The CBs aren't horrible (other than McKelvin, and he's way down on the depth chart). I think that's more than enough talent. How they complement each other is up to the signal caller.

 

You can't honestly tell me that if Wade Phillips was coaching this D, it wouldn't be way better. Again, its still way too early to make any conclusions about anything, and hopefully we see some improvements, but I've got my doubts.

 

This team is missing two pieces from being really really dangerous. Above average defensive coaching and a good QB (not even elite..just good).

 

We'll just agree to disagree then. But there is no measurable quantifier that I'm aware of that shows that our defense in whole is anything more than mediocre to poor at this point in time.

 

Byrd and Wilson certainly have their good moments, but overall, their pass defense leaves lot to be desired just based on what I've seen. It doesn't matter that they're better than Whitner. The thought of our defense being worse if Whitner was still on it doesn't comfort me when I look at how far down we've placed the last two seasons.

 

Like I said, a work in progress and a lot of growing pains until I see more than a glimpse here and there. Glimpses are nice and all, but I'll take the full length feature every time.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Edited September 20, 2012 by K-9

[KOKBILLS]

Except for the fact that Mario's not a 3-4 DE, and not suited to play 3-4 OLB, you're correct...

 

5 Sacks in 5 Games is not suited? Phillips made it work...He said Mario was an OLB in a 3-4 from day #1 when he got there, and I really don't think Mario did anything but prove him right for those 5 Games...And I do realized Phillips used him on or around the D-Line almost exclusively (mostly standing, but sometimes in a 3-point)...

 

But anyway...All I'm saying is the guy was listed as a 3-4 OLB and did extremely well in those 5 Games under Wade...

[Dragonborn10]

Maybe the Jets are just better than us...They have destroyed us for three years in a row...the games haven't even been close for the most part...

 

5 Sacks in 5 Games is not suited? Phillips made it work...He said Mario was an OLB in a 3-4 from day #1 when he got there, and I really don't think Mario did anything but prove him right for those 5 Games...And I do realized Phillips used him on or around the D-Line almost exclusively (mostly standing, but sometimes in a 3-point)...

 

But anyway...All I'm saying is the guy was listed as a 3-4 OLB and did extremely well in those 5 Games under Wade...

Thank you for correcting that...Mario was incredible in the role Wade gave him...I think they need a different name for the position. These guys like Ware and Suggs virtually never drop into coverage and often rush from a three point stance.

[K-9]

Maybe the Jets are just better than us...They have destroyed us for three years in a row...the games haven't even been close for the most part...

 

 

Thank you for correcting that...Mario was incredible in the role Wade gave him...I think they need a different name for the position. These guys like Ware and Suggs virtually never drop into coverage and often rush from a three point stance.

 

Maybe? There is no maybe about it. The Jest are a better team than us. No matter how you slice it. Anyone who disagrees isn't looking at it realistically. Until we win games on the field vs. winning them on paper, that will be the case.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[mountainwampus]

The Defensive scheme used against the Jets was bizarre to say the least. There has to be more to the story than any of us know. Maybe the equipment manager is to blame? Why was he fired the next day? Perhaps Sheppard's radio ran outta batteries so they ran "vanilla" D all day? IDK, but something strange happened. The D used against KC was proper and sophisticated, so you gotta wonder what happened.

[Bookie Man]

Yeah the Jets game was frustrating to watch. I was wondering why the corners were playing so soft. It doesn't make any sense. All it did was negate the pass rushers because Sanchez would just pick them apart for 7 yard gainers all day. The KC game is how this defense needs to play. Aggressive. press the receivers and force the QB to make a difficult pass. And when his 1st and 2nd reads are in tight coverage let the dline kill. I'm glad that Wanny adjusted, it would've been nice to see it maybe during halftime of game 1 though.

[The Voice of Truth]

I was and still am a huge fan of making Wanny the DC. But after listening to an interview with him on The John Murphy Show early this week (either Monday or Tuesday) I think that he deserves some severe criticism for the Jets debacle.

 

Most all pre-season and training camp the Bills had the DBs in press coverage. Gilmore especially is a physical corner, and played press in college most of the time. AWilliams, too, is a physical guy. Williams was repeatedly getting burnt in pre-season on regular coverage, and Gilmore was repeatedly praised for his play and toughness.

 

Opening day, what did we do? Abandoned the press coverage. The DBs played back. I understood the theory at least, that we have this great line that should be able to generate a lot of pressure with four, and we'll dare Sanchez to beat us with his arm, especially because the Jets only had one real WR threat.

 

The result? The Jets killed us. Gilmore and AWilliams and everyone else couldn't cover anyone. The DL didn't generate pressure against a good OL. Sanchez had all day and was remarkable accurate.

 

The second week, Wanny completely changed his defense. The CBs played pressure. He blitzed all game long. And the defense dominated.

 

The real problem, however, was listening to him this week saying that the team plays much better when the DBs play pressure. It lets the DL have an extra half second or so to get to the QB. We have the players to play it, and we're a better defense with it.

 

Hello?

 

How about the Jets game when you abandoned it?

 

I think part of our problem, if not the major part of the Jets debacle was the coaching, getting too conservative, getting out of what our DBs do well. Right now, more than the LBs, our biggest problem on defense is the coverage skills of the DBs. Gilmore is a rookie who is going to be great IMO. Williams is struggling in coverage, as is Leodis. McGee is not healthy or back to speed yet. We need to do what we did against KC even if it means some big plays against us. Play press defense. Blitz a bit. Pressure the QB into mistakes, and live with some 20 yard completion of you have to.

I pretty much agree with your entire post. I was getting pissed all Jets game that we were playing "off the line" in the secondary. Sometimes our guys were freaking 8 yeards off the line. It was ridiculous. Getting d-line pressure and playing press coverage go together. If the QB can just get rid of it because evrybody is open in the first second of a play, then the rush will do nothing. The QB will just go to his hot read if there is pressure. Why can't coaches see the obvious sometimes? FOOTBALL IS NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

 

It was a really stupid gameplan. He made changes in week two which hinted at competence but I'll make a more clear judgment on Wanny by about week 8.

Edited September 20, 2012 by The Voice of Truth

[stony]

I was and still am a huge fan of making Wanny the DC. But after listening to an interview with him on The John Murphy Show early this week (either Monday or Tuesday) I think that he deserves some severe criticism for the Jets debacle.

 

Most all pre-season and training camp the Bills had the DBs in press coverage. Gilmore especially is a physical corner, and played press in college most of the time. AWilliams, too, is a physical guy. Williams was repeatedly getting burnt in pre-season on regular coverage, and Gilmore was repeatedly praised for his play and toughness.

 

Opening day, what did we do? Abandoned the press coverage. The DBs played back. I understood the theory at least, that we have this great line that should be able to generate a lot of pressure with four, and we'll dare Sanchez to beat us with his arm, especially because the Jets only had one real WR threat.

 

The result? The Jets killed us. Gilmore and AWilliams and everyone else couldn't cover anyone. The DL didn't generate pressure against a good OL. Sanchez had all day and was remarkable accurate.

 

The second week, Wanny completely changed his defense. The CBs played pressure. He blitzed all game long. And the defense dominated.

 

The real problem, however, was listening to him this week saying that the team plays much better when the DBs play pressure. It lets the DL have an extra half second or so to get to the QB. We have the players to play it, and we're a better defense with it.

 

Hello?

 

How about the Jets game when you abandoned it?

 

I think part of our problem, if not the major part of the Jets debacle was the coaching, getting too conservative, getting out of what our DBs do well. Right now, more than the LBs, our biggest problem on defense is the coverage skills of the DBs. Gilmore is a rookie who is going to be great IMO. Williams is struggling in coverage, as is Leodis. McGee is not healthy or back to speed yet. We need to do what we did against KC even if it means some big plays against us. Play press defense. Blitz a bit. Pressure the QB into mistakes, and live with some 20 yard completion of you have to.

 

I think it was as simple as the coaching staff thinking that Sanchez was just so terrible we wouldn't have to do much to beat him. Any QB in the NFL with time to throw and a cushion from the DBs can do reasonable damage. Lesson learned and thank god it was only week 1.

[K-9]

The Defensive scheme used against the Jets was bizarre to say the least. There has to be more to the story than any of us know. Maybe the equipment manager is to blame? Why was he fired the next day? Perhaps Sheppard's radio ran outta batteries so they ran "vanilla" D all day? IDK, but something strange happened. The D used against KC was proper and sophisticated, so you gotta wonder what happened.

 

Hojo wasn't fired. He retired. The Snooze got it wrong and acknowledged their error.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[mountainwampus]

 

 

Hojo wasn't fired. He retired. The Snooze got it wrong and acknowledged their error.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

oh, I see. Either way, strange time to retire. Strange way to scheme a D. It could very well be a fluke, but I'm thinking conspiracy.

[billsfan89]

Not when it's looked at critically. Without question, there is enough talent on the D line to not only be really good, but downright dominant.

 

Every other position is either a work in progress like the CBs or is manned by nothing more than adequate talent at the present time. I 'like' our guys, but I don't see Wilson and Byrd as great safeties based on what I've seen in pass defense, and our LBs leave a lot to be desired.

 

Actually, I should say our entire D is a work in progress given their short amount of time together in the scheme. When I look at defenses like San Fran, I see a group that's been together in a scheme and is really comfortable in its execution. We seem to have a ways to go yet in that regard. I just think we're in for a lot of growing pains.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

The D-line and the Safeties are elite for sure or at the worst close to elite. But the in between the CB's and LB's are a work in progress. The CB's are a young group with a lot of potential but they are going to struggle at times, the LB's are a decent group but outside of Barnett there isn't a sure thing on there. Gilmore, Williams, and Sheppard are going to determine how good this D can be.

Edited September 20, 2012 by billsfan89

[HOUSE]

If you follow his history, some of his defenses (NY & K.C.) looked butt ass awful at the beginning of the season. Wait till mid season, you should notice a huge difference.

[K-9]

The D-line and the Safeties are elite for sure or at the worst close to elite. But the in between the CB's and LB's are a work in progress. The CB's are a young group with a lot of potential but they are going to struggle at times, the LB's are a decent group but outside of Barnett there isn't a sure thing on there. Gilmore, Williams, and Sheppard are going to determine how good this D can be.

 

D line I think we can make a case for. By what measure are our safeties elite? Last year, our secondary let QBs average a 90.4 rating. Yes the play of the entire unit affects that. And they'll occasionally make a big play, but they are at best inconsistent. Byrd hasn't come close to duplicating his promising rookie year although I attribute that to changing schemes.

 

My hope is that as the DLine emerges as a dominant unit it will show with improved play in the secondary, including the safeties. But I've got to see it first. I'm not saying they aren't capable, I just haven't seen it yet.

 

Guess I'm in a wait and see mode with our defense. Can't blame me since they've been at or near the bottom of the league in many statistical categories the last three years. Time to prove it on the field every week vs. proving it on paper.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[3rdand12]

The first game was an abherration ( i have no idea how to spell it ) but it was so ugly on both sides you have to throw it out.

If adjustments were not made immediately big red flags should have been thrown.

The second game was a coached game by comparison. A very well coached game. Sure the players were pumped up but we won that with play calling good game plan and quick effective adjustments. Creating some mismatches and controlling tempo.

Why Wanny did not do much of anything at Halftime against jets who had us figured amazed me. something funny about that lack of adjustment. we can all agree to that i think.

But this game against KC redeems all.

We have those kids on the boundary who are learning on the job and our new nickle corner in place.Smart move Dave!! I expect we will continue to improve each week.

Its an assumption of course. but its not a guess.

Here we go again.

 

This week is the biggest game yet.

those Browns would hate to go 0-3. They are going to bring all they got to this party.

 

Lets see what Dave W has to offer Trent and his QB shall we? First year as DC with us. a little slack is reasonable eh?

Edited September 20, 2012 by 3rdand12

[bananathumb]

We've had way too many conservative Dcoordinators, going all the way back to Walt Cory who never blitzed on 3rd downs. Hate coaches who won't use their players' talents.

[snamsnoops]

The result? The Jets killed us. Gilmore and AWilliams and everyone else couldn't cover anyone. The DL didn't generate pressure against a good OL. Sanchez had all day and was remarkable accurate.

 

The second week, Wanny completely changed his defense. The CBs played pressure. He blitzed all game long. And the defense dominated.

I agree with most of what u said. I do question, "Sanchez had all day" He seemed to be getting the ball out really quickly for the most part and that is why we didn't get any pressure on El Dirte Sanches! That was also why i didn't understand the DB's playing back they should have jammed em at the line.

Maybe they did blitz alot last week. I remeber our D-line (especially the interior williams n dareus) getting a lot of push up the middle.

I am not saying u r wrong, just i saw things a little different. Good post and like i said i mostly agree with ya!

 

LET"S GO BUFFALO!

[3rdand12]

We've had way too many conservative Dcoordinators, going all the way back to Walt Cory who never blitzed on 3rd downs. Hate coaches who won't use their players' talents.

how many blitzes did we run last week?

Hmm do you know?

I do.

and you are right, use those players to their potential and squeeze a bit more than they thought they could do!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I was and still am a huge fan of making Wanny the DC. But after listening to an interview with him on The John Murphy Show early this week (either Monday or Tuesday) I think that he deserves some severe criticism for the Jets debacle.....Opening day, what did we do? Abandoned the press coverage. The DBs played back. The result? The Jets killed us. Gilmore and AWilliams and everyone else couldn't cover anyone. The DL didn't generate pressure against a good OL. Sanchez had all day and was remarkable accurate.

 

Something was sure off vs the Jets. If it wasn't the players' attitude it was def. the coaching and game plan.

 

Football is a chess match. You come into the game with something you think will work.

The difference between good coaches and job-seekers is the good coaches adjust, during the game, when the plan they came into the game with isn't working.

 

The most troubling thing to me is that the Bills didn't adjust, on either side of the ball.