Meark Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Don't really like starting threads.. but had to get this off my chest.. A kick off specialist has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Why give the other team the 20 every series? Good teams kick the ball deep and dare the opponent to try to run it back. Good teams tackle inside the 20.. There are high chances of a penalty on the return team and there's always a chance for a turnover. Kicking the ball through the endzone takes away so many opportunities. It seems like it would be much better to use this roster spot for a special teams ace/cb/wr/lb. Rant over.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I actually thought this thread was going to argue: "why do you need a kick-off specialist when the offense never scores?" I kind of concur--but view it more of as a wasted roster spot. Why be dangerously thin at WR and RB for the luxury of a KO specialist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 yet sooooo many, even good, teams do exactly what we are. i wonder if there is more that can happen on a return? could they get past the 20 frequently? could we miss a tackle and give up points? could we have injuries? I actually thought this thread was going to argue: "why do you need a kick-off specialist when the offense never scores?" I kind of concur--but view it more of as a wasted roster spot. Why be dangerously thin at WR and RB for the luxury of a KO specialist? you consider carrying 4 backs, plus c-mac dangerously thin? it seems to be pretty standard, if not a bit heavy in the backfield now that we added white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The idea, I believe, was that our defense would be so improved this year that pinning opposing teams on the 20 would win us the field position battle throughout the game. Unfortunately, our defense appears to be another in a long line of sick jokes played on Bills fans throughout the years... I'm fine with having a kickoff specialist although why not just make him the kicker and free up a roster spot and some cash to pay a skill position player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I dont know whether I agree with you or disagree with you. - Is it more likely that a guy gets past the 20 or gets tackled inside of the 20 (including penalties)? - Is it more likely to give up a touchdown or force a turnover? - Would using the roster spot somewhere else actually add a benefit to the team? I'm not sure on the answers to any of those questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Don't really like starting threads.. but had to get this off my chest.. A kick off specialist has got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Why give the other team the 20 every series? Good teams kick the ball deep and dare the opponent to try to run it back. Good teams tackle inside the 20.. There are high chances of a penalty on the return team and there's always a chance for a turnover. Kicking the ball through the endzone takes away so many opportunities. It seems like it would be much better to use this roster spot for a special teams ace/cb/wr/lb. Rant over.. Here is the problem with your rant...teams will rarely not make it back to at least the 20, and when they don't its still close between the 15 and 20. You will never consistently kick off and stop someone inside the 10 unless they botch receiving the ball. However, when they do get a good run, they will advance it significantly past the 20 or even score. So in most cases the return team is going to get it back or close to the 20 anyway. Now with a KO specialists kicking it out of the end zone or so deep they down it, you insure the ball never gets back past the 20 and they always have 80 yards to go for a TD. Its actually pretty smart and a major field position weapon, especially against teams with dynamic return specialists. You essentially nullify a teams weapon. Most teams have a returner that averages at or above 25 yards per return, so even if the ball is 5 yards deep into the endzone that still puts them on average back on the 20. This way, they have no shot at further advancement nor a score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maybe Someday Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I agree. With all the other holes we have, a KO specialist seems like a waste of a roster spot. I have to think the coaching staff has a little more long term plans for Potter than just kickoffs. Lindell is getting up there in age. Then again, I don’t recall Potter even attempting a FG in the preseason. The one thing I’ve learned about this team over the years is that as soon as I think they know what they’re doing, they make a move that baffles me. Since we do have Potter, I wish that rather than kicking it deep into or through the endzone, he put more air under the ball and try to have it come down about a yard or 2 into the endzone. The returner would be more tempted to bring it out and the added hang time would allow our coverage units to potentially make the tackle inside of the 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The only advantage (to not having one for KOs) is the roster spot really and I see that going away during the winter. I think by the of the season we only have one kicker unless this experiment really works out great somehow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RalphOP83 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Chan is very into statistical analysis....someone from the bills staff told me his reasoning...and I'd repeat it but i dont have the stats down completely (few brews that day) ....something along the lines of if the opponent starts at the 25 or less X% of the time then X yada yada yada.... flame away but his reasoning has statistical basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 statistics are like a bikini what they reveal is interesting but what they hide is vital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Except the times they break one and score on special teams......or break one and flip field position to the 50. IF you have a good defense....you should be just fine with them starting on their 20 every time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meark Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 yet sooooo many, even good, teams do exactly what we are. i wonder if there is more that can happen on a return? could they get past the 20 frequently? could we miss a tackle and give up points? could we have injuries? you consider carrying 4 backs, plus c-mac dangerously thin? it seems to be pretty standard, if not a bit heavy in the backfield now that we added white. Please enlighten me.. How many teams carry 3 kickers? Soooo many huh? I'd like to see you name 1 besides buffalo. Except the times they break one and score on special teams......or break one and flip field position to the 50. IF you have a good defense....you should be just fine with them starting on their 20 every time So its worth a roster spot.. NO. I'll save you time searching.. Buffalo is the only team that has a "Kick Off Specialist". No other team has 3 kickers on the active roster. PERIOD. Buffalo is so good we can devote a roster spot to an extra kicker.. ?? Hell NO. Is Lindell so great that he's not expendable? Give me a break. Buffalo is the only freaking team that can't seem to find a kicker that can kick field goals and kick off into the end zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpmfla Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think they should have a field goal kicker that can also kick off deep into/out of the end zone. Three kickers is a luxery the Bills cannot afford. Four QBs and 3 kickers is a waste of roster spots. I'm hoping this is a temporary situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I could be wrong but didn't I see him punting during preseason as well? So he would be a backup punter in addition to kickoff specialist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Please enlighten me.. How many teams carry 3 kickers? Soooo many huh? I'd like to see you name 1 besides buffalo. So its worth a roster spot.. NO. I'll save you time searching.. Buffalo is the only team that has a "Kick Off Specialist". No other team has 3 kickers on the active roster. PERIOD. Buffalo is so good we can devote a roster spot to an extra kicker.. ?? Hell NO. Is Lindell so great that he's not expendable? Give me a break. Buffalo is the only freaking team that can't seem to find a kicker that can kick field goals and kick off into the end zone. \ What great player at this point are we missing on our roster that you are so concerned about carrying an extra kicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The 53rd roster spot that this player is "holding back" is so negligible, it's not even funny. As long as your guy can put it deep in the end zone like 90% of the time it is certainly worth it. For an opponent to have to go 80 yards on all non-punt drives, it gives you a great advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsBruce Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 AMEN, AMEN, AMEN! Can I get another amen? AMEN! My buds can tell you that I was griping about using a roster spot on a Kickoff Specialist all day Sunday. I'm sure Mr. Potter is a nice enough young man, but I woulda much rather seen Derek Hagan or Naaman Roosevelt in that roster spot coming out of camp. Couldn't Potter have been Practice Squaded until it became CRYSTAL clear that return coverage was a GLARING weakness and WR was not? Now we have a KO Specialist AND Ruvell Martin, STer Extraordinaire and a depleted and suspect WR corps. It's a head-scratcher to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This was not seen as a bad strategy on Friday of last week ... Still, by comparison it was sad to see Jets' regular kicker consistently kick it deep into the end zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Please enlighten me.. How many teams carry 3 kickers? Soooo many huh? I'd like to see you name 1 besides buffalo. So its worth a roster spot.. NO. I'll save you time searching.. Buffalo is the only team that has a "Kick Off Specialist". No other team has 3 kickers on the active roster. PERIOD. Buffalo is so good we can devote a roster spot to an extra kicker.. ?? Hell NO. Is Lindell so great that he's not expendable? Give me a break. Buffalo is the only freaking team that can't seem to find a kicker that can kick field goals and kick off into the end zone. So the argument is no longer the strategy of forcing touchbacks but instead the roster spot? Well, I couldn't quote every teams kicking situation. I know at several points in the last few years the saints have carried 3 kickers. Only two currently, but 3 isn't unheard of. What player are you dying to activate on gamedays? And no, plenty of teams struggle through kickers worse than ours, by a long shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Lindell is terrible at kickoffs. Potter is excellent at them. The last roster spot is basically a practice squad player as we have to designate a few player inactive. It's unlikely that player even dresses, while Potter can actually have an effect on the game. If we had a FG kicker that was effective at kicking off, the spot is useless, but our FG kicker sucks at kicking off. I'm glad potter is here. I hope he can get better at FGs and eventually take Lindell's spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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