Rob's House Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Believe me. Work as a teacher in Chicago. But then again, you know this... You probably have lots a family members that work in places like Chicago, DC or God knows whatever parental hell hole lies out there. Stop villifying the success working as a UNION brings. I'm trying not to be nasty because I know I'm in a foul mood today of my own doing (staying up drinking while I should have been sleeping) but I'm getting highly annoyed at the inability of libs to have a rational discussion. EVERY !@#$ING TIME someone challenges a left-wing premise these hypothetical extremes, false choices, and straw men are thrown out as some kind of argument. So please, if you can do so, explain to me why should a teacher be given tenure for working in Chicago or DC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 First off, I don't live in Chicago so I don't really give a ****. Secondly, I have plenty of teachers in my family, so I'm well aware of what they do and don't earn. I'm all for teachers earning a decent wage and having reasonable job security. I'm just irritated by douche bags who want to paint teachers as this poor downtrodden group who have been nailed to the proverbial cross. And while some teachers are great and make a big difference in the lives of students, most are just regular people working a job, so let's stay in reality. And fwiw, your "shame on you" line makes you come off like a big pusssy. Ahhh yes I must have hit a nerve! You sure loved those words (American Exceptionalism, successful hard working people, dont vilify success, ect) when they were rolling off someone else's tongue! Hell you championed that rhetoric, you probably jumped off the sofa and began cheering when that individual so eloquently delivered those words! Come time to eat that crow it didn't taste so good! So you lob a few obscenties my way! FWIW I have teachers in my family and have friends that are teachers right here in Chicago. I know about all the kids that show up at school with no paper, no pens, no pencils, or the needed supplies because their parents are poor, couldn't afford everything, or lost their job. I know about those teachers that care so dam much that they reach into their own pocket and provide that child with the supplies because they are good hard working people that care about those kids and they want them to learn. But according to you they are just "poor downtrodden group who have been nailed to the proverbial cross"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Ahhh yes I must have hit a nerve! You sure loved those words (American Exceptionalism, successful hard working people, dont vilify success, ect) when they were rolling off someone else's tongue! Hell you championed that rhetoric, you probably jumped off the sofa and began cheering when that individual so eloquently delivered those words! Come time to eat that crow it didn't taste so good! So you lob a few obscenties my way! FWIW I have teachers in my family and have friends that are teachers right here in Chicago. I know about all the kids that show up at school with no paper, no pens, no pencils, or the needed supplies because their parents are poor, couldn't afford everything, or lost their job. I know about those teachers that care so dam much that they reach into their own pocket and provide that child with the supplies because they are good hard working people that care about those kids and they want them to learn. But according to you they are just "poor downtrodden group who have been nailed to the proverbial cross"! You know anything about the union that represents them? Buncha crooks. The idea that they have the teachers' interest in mind is hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Ahhh yes I must have hit a nerve! You sure loved those words (American Exceptionalism, successful hard working people, dont vilify success, ect) when they were rolling off someone else's tongue! Hell you championed that rhetoric, you probably jumped off the sofa and began cheering when that individual so eloquently delivered those words! Come time to eat that crow it didn't taste so good! So you lob a few obscenties my way! Way off the mark on that one, but I'm used to you guys not knowing your adversary so no surprise there. You guys have a greater tendency to argue with the voices in your head, so ask him how the crow tasted, I wouldn't know. FWIW I have teachers in my family and have friends that are teachers right here in Chicago. I know about all the kids that show up at school with no paper, no pens, no pencils, or the needed supplies because their parents are poor, couldn't afford everything, or lost their job. I know about those teachers that care so dam much that they reach into their own pocket and provide that child with the supplies because they are good hard working people that care about those kids and they want them to learn. But according to you they are just "poor downtrodden group who have been nailed to the proverbial cross"! And what part of that means they should be insulated from evaluation and have their employment guaranteed regardless of performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 And what part of that means they should be insulated from evaluation and have their employment guaranteed regardless of performance? You talking about tenure right? They need protection for political reasons. It protects them from administrators that abuse their power. Teacher's jobs are directly related to grading students whose parents and friends that sit on the school board. A lot of personality conflicts can arise from this type of job. Take your medicine with a lump of sugar. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 You talking about tenure right? They need protection for political reasons. It protects them from administrators that abuse their power. Teacher's jobs are directly related to grading students whose parents and friends that sit on the school board. A lot of personality conflicts can arise from this type of job. Take your medicine with a lump of sugar. Deal with it. Reach much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Reach much? That is by no means a reach... Power corrupts... Especially with a school board. At the university level, the issue centers more around political beliefs. Tenure system not perfect... But it is needed... There is a reason why it has been around a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Ahhh yes I must have hit a nerve! You sure loved those words (American Exceptionalism, successful hard working people, dont vilify success, ect) when they were rolling off someone else's tongue! Hell you championed that rhetoric, you probably jumped off the sofa and began cheering when that individual so eloquently delivered those words! Come time to eat that crow it didn't taste so good! So you lob a few obscenties my way! FWIW I have teachers in my family and have friends that are teachers right here in Chicago. I know about all the kids that show up at school with no paper, no pens, no pencils, or the needed supplies because their parents are poor, couldn't afford everything, or lost their job. I know about those teachers that care so dam much that they reach into their own pocket and provide that child with the supplies because they are good hard working people that care about those kids and they want them to learn. But according to you they are just "poor downtrodden group who have been nailed to the proverbial cross"! Oh, for !@#$s sake, you can't be serious. They're going on strike for a 30% raise while the city and school district is in dire straits? "F" 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Oh, for !@#$s sake, you can't be serious. They're going on strike for a 30% raise while the city and school district is in dire straits? "F" 'em. No, it's actually for a lot more than that. In fact, as far as I can tell, the raise isn't even the central issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdnlng Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 No, it's actually for a lot more than that. In fact, as far as I can tell, the raise isn't even the central issue. !@#$ 'em. They need to be "Walkered". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 That is by no means a reach... Power corrupts... Especially with a school board. At the university level, the issue centers more around political beliefs. Tenure system not perfect... But it is needed... There is a reason why it has been around a long time. So you're saying teachers in the Chicago public school system need tenure so they can be free of the political pressures and school board power structure that would otherwise prevent them from doing their jobs properly? Seriously? :lol: [thick sarcasm] No, you're clearly not reaching here [/thick sarcasm] Dude, if the parents of the kids in the failing schools gave half a **** about their kids' educations in the first place the schools wouldn't be turning out illiterate graduates who get a C for coming to class on occasion without throwing a chair at the teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 SCHOOL'S OUT! Chicago offered teachers raises of 3 percent this year and another 2 percent annually for the following three years, amounting to an average raise of 16 percent over the duration of the proposed contract, School Board President David Vitale said. The school district, like many cities and states across the country, is facing a financial crisis with a projected budget deficit of $3 billion over the next three years and a crushing burden of pensions promised to retiring teachers. Emanuel said two main issues remain to be resolved - his proposal that teachers be evaluated based in part on student performance on standardized tests, and more authority for school principals. Union officials said more than a quarter of Chicago public school teachers could lose their jobs if they are evaluated based on the tests. "Evaluate us on what we do, not the lives of our children we do not control," Lewis said in announcing the strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Heh..............not too surprising. Rahm Emanuel to send his 3 kids to private school this fall Mayor Rahm Emanuel has decided to send his three children to the University of Chicago Lab Schools rather than put them in the financially strapped Chicago Public Schools he’s trying desperately to reform. Emanuel was in New York City to headline a round of campaign fund-raisers for President Barack Obama and couldn’t be reached for comment on his decision to choose an elite private school in Hyde Park where Obama’s daughters once went. http://www.suntimes.com/news/education/6629400-418/emanuel-to-send-his-3-kids-to-private-school-this-fall.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary M Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Stop begrudging the teachers union for being good negotiators. They have been successful on behalf of the teachers who signify American Exceptionalism. The teachers earned their degrees through dedication and hard work and went on to become successful teachers! Shame on your for trying to tear them down, you should celebrate their success not vilify it! Because they used their dues "aka tax money" to buy the politicians they are successful? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 http://cnsnews.com/news/article/us-department-education-79-chicago-8th-graders-not-proficient-reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dayman Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Just poking my head in here haven't read everything...are they on strike right now or is it still negotiating? I thought I heard a blurb that they were set to strike soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Just poking my head in here haven't read everything...are they on strike right now or is it still negotiating? I thought I heard a blurb that they were set to strike soon... Nope, they're on strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 If you could see me right now, I'm playing the world's smallest violin for all the poor put upon Chicago teachers. it must be tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 I forget, but where was that teacher that was mad because she had to contribute to her pension and couldn't retire at 47? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomato can Posted September 11, 2012 Share Posted September 11, 2012 Oh, for !@#$s sake, you can't be serious. They're going on strike for a 30% raise while the city and school district is in dire straits? "F" 'em. That is false. If you are going weigh in on the CTU-CPS negotiations know the facts please, instead of believing that these people are holding the city of Chicago ransom for some ridiculous 25% pay raise because Rahm Emmanuel told you so....The fact of the matter is that 25% is b.s.. What they are asking for is the 4% contractually bargained raise they were due last January that Rahm decided they couldn't have in spite of the contract because of "budget shortfalls". As well as, to actually be paid for the extra hour that Rahm added to their days this year, attempting to sneak it in unpaid. I don't know how you would feel if your employer decided not to give you the raise your union had bargained for you, then made each of your workdays an hour longer with no compensation thus costing most teachers more money for that extra hour of childcare for their own children. Sounds like a real sweet deal huh? Oh yeah, and despite the budget shortfalls, he found $55 million last week to build a new park in honor of the wife of his predecessor(Daley), the most crooked mayor this city has ever seen. So you're saying teachers in the Chicago public school system need tenure so they can be free of the political pressures and school board power structure that would otherwise prevent them from doing their jobs properly? Seriously? :lol: [thick sarcasm] No, you're clearly not reaching here [/thick sarcasm] Dude, if the parents of the kids in the failing schools gave half a **** about their kids' educations in the first place the schools wouldn't be turning out illiterate graduates who get a C for coming to class on occasion without throwing a chair at the teacher. Rob, advocates for teacher tenure say that teachers need protection from power hungry administrators and school board members who have personality conflicts with a particular teacher. Tenure status protects a teacher, when a school board member’s child fails their class, from having the repercussion of being fired. It provides job security for teachers, which many believe, translates to happier teachers and teachers who perform at a higher level. Tenure also ensures that those who have been there longest have guaranteed job security in tough economic times even though a newer teacher is cheaper to the district. Because they used their dues "aka tax money" to buy the politicians they are successful? Gary, they are on strike. Yes unions donate to pols that might give them favorable treatment. Bankers, wallstreet power brokers, and a lot of others do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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