Four WRs?

[Buffalo Barbarian]

We saw this strategy before Fred got hurt. He was first in the league for a while. In preseason we saw a lot of passing because Gailey was auditioning receivers and linemen on offense. We will be 55%_60% run by the end of the season.

 

man i hope so

[Kelly the Dog]

Again, ill ask all those insisting we have 4 qbs- if he was a legit #3 qb, where were his preseason reps? He is a qb in title only. He is not a full time qb on this roster. Forget what chan has said and look at what he has done. Gris a utility player and given his flexibility we can go a little short at a few different spots. Today that's at WR.

While all of that is true, most teams have an emergency QB either on the roster or the practice squad. It's a necessary evil, and you really don't expect to use your #3 QB. So it fills a role and a need, and there was a huge advantage in Gailey and David Lee's mind to playing Smith as a full-time QB in OTAs and mini-camp and most of the pre-season. Counting all of the time the team has spent together, Smith has practiced with the QBs 80-90% of it. They were trying to find what throws and what plays he did the best, which they incorporated into the Wildcat. They said it publicly and that is what we're going to see.

 

I know I am an obvious Brad Smith supporter, but I think that Bills fans are going to love him when the games start. I fully expect, as does Gailey, that the Wildcat is going to be a relatively small but vital element to our attack.

[Rockinon]

Thigpen did show some improvement in the final preseason game. Hopefully, he can use that as a confidence builder and continue to improve. Fortunately, for him, he got one more chance. My guess is that the Bills will keep him for the remainder of this season and bring TJ up to speed slowly. I don't think it would be wise to throw TJ into the fire too early, so Thigpen's job is secure for now.

[Kelly the Dog]

Errrr....if Young beat out Thigpen, why is Thigpen still on the roster?

Because they didn't want Young to be hanging around the team moping. He was not the kind of player that Nix and Gailey had brought in (high character, self-motivator, smart, team leader type). Word is that members of the Bills brass didn't want him in the first place but Buddy did. The Bills knew that TT was just a placeholder for Jackson until Jackson was ready, they knew Thigpen had a much better grasp of the offense so they would be able to better evaluate the bubble players when TT had to play most of the Lions game, and that he would be a better teammate and soldier. Without question I would have done the same thing.

[FreakPop]

Call me whatever you want after reading my response.

 

I have a hunch we will release Thigpen after the JETS game. Maybe we kept him around with the idea of blocking the JETS from picking him up prior to game 1. JETS realize opening day is huge vs the Bills. JETS have been known to rent players for a few weeks.

 

Having 4 WR's on the roster I don't think is a big deal, not at this point in the season. If we review last year, how often did we actually have 4 WR's on the field? A combo of 2 out of CJ, Chandler, Dickerson will most probably be on the field if we go 5 wide. Another suspicion I have is I don't think we will go 5 wide a lot until Eric Wood is 100% both physically and mentally. I think Eric being rusty in the pre season with blitz pick up calls led to the blitzing Fitz had trouble with when we went 5 wide in pre season.

 

Regardless, I am not convinced Buddy and Whaley are not kicking the tires to bring another WR off waivers or even trade.

 

No!

[NoSaint]

 

While all of that is true, most teams have an emergency QB either on the roster or the practice squad. It's a necessary evil, and you really don't expect to use your #3 QB. So it fills a role and a need, and there was a huge advantage in Gailey and David Lee's mind to playing Smith as a full-time QB in OTAs and mini-camp and most of the pre-season. Counting all of the time the team has spent together, Smith has practiced with the QBs 80-90% of it. They were trying to find what throws and what plays he did the best, which they incorporated into the Wildcat. They said it publicly and that is what we're going to see.

 

I know I am an obvious Brad Smith supporter, but I think that Bills fans are going to love him when the games start. I fully expect, as does Gailey, that the Wildcat is going to be a relatively small but vital element to our attack.

 

I agree, I'm just amazed by the people that think he's truly a 4th qb and not a 5th wr that can throw and run out of the backfield and return kicks, and cover kicks. This team is not carrying 4 qbs and 4 wrs right now. It's got 3 qbs, and 5 wrs, despite smith being listed with qb next to his name. It takes very little critical thinking to get to this point.

 

I'm also a big smith supporter, and frustrated by the people that just don't get how our passing game really shook out in this 53. Or the ones that think he's a below average wr5. Maybe an expensive one, but one thats better at wr, and a host of other things than your average wr5 around the league.

 

Because with CJ, fredex, chandler, dorin, and of course BS, they decided (especially early on) that the qb2 spot was more important than the wr6.

Edited September 1, 2012 by NoSaint

[Kelly the Dog]

I have the very same question, vincec. I don't see this as a probable scenario at all. Essentially what's being discussed is Thigpen renegotiating his salary, which could be done without cutting him.

All it takes is both sides to agree. But it would seem to be in Thigpen's interest to say "No", since if he doesn't agree, the Bills have the choice between cutting him and taking their chances on Fitz staying healthy, or not cutting him and paying him $2.5 million even if he's cut. Also, if Thigpen is cut and looking for another team, negotiations will start at his current contract and work down - so why would he want to lower his starting point? Doesn't make sense to me.

Because no one would sign him this week. Not with Seneca Wallace, Matt Moore, Josh Johnson, Josh McCown, Brian Hoyer, Kafka, Rosenfels, etc., and maybe even Vince Young out there.

[Rockinon]

I agree, I'm just amazed by the people that think he's truly a 4th qb and not a 5th wr that can throw and run out of the backfield and return kicks, and cover kicks. This team is not carrying 4 qbs and 4 wrs right now. It's got 3 qbs, and 5 wrs, despite smith being listed with qb next to his name. It takes very little critical thinking to get to this point.

 

I'm also a big smith supporter, and frustrated by the people that just don't get how our passing game really shook out in this 53.

 

Because with CJ, fredex, chandler, dorin, and of course BS, they decided (especially early on) that the qb2 spot was more important than the wr6.

I think most of us get what you are saying. He will line up in the QB position though, granted it will only be in the wildcat and not as a real passing threat. I do think he will throw though, maybe only once or twice all season. If you line up in the QB position, you are the signal caller and you take the snap, you are a QB. Not really disagreeing with you, just looking at it a little differently. I don't see him as a real QB either

Edited September 1, 2012 by Rockinon

[FreakPop]

I think it is obvious that there is more to just playing in a game that goes into being a backup QB. Running the scout team, breaking down film, taking instruction/direction from coaches, keeping good information on the clipboard during the game, gameday preparation etc. are things that a backup QB needs to be good at also. Thigpen may not have the physical tools to be a very good QB when thrust into the situation if the starter goes down but he might be lightyears better than VY or even BS is/was at all the other things. Jury is still out on TJ but after his interview it seems likely TT has an advantage over him as well at all the other things.

[NoSaint]

 

I think most of us get what you are saying. He will line up in the QB position though, granted it will only be in the wildcat and not as a real passing threat. I do think he will throw though, maybe only once or twice all season. If you line up in the QB position, you are the signal caller and you take the snap, you are a QB. Not really disagreeing with you, just looking at it a little differently. I don't see him as a real QB either

 

Did you consider him a qb for the jets? He might throw the ball 5-10 times and learn the reads but he's just not really a qb. If they cut him and put Jackson in his role would he be a qb in your mind?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Exactly how many times to Chan and Buddy need to say that Brad Smith is a WR before everyone realizes Smith is a WR?

 

Er....only one time, after we've seen enough to be convinced he out-plays some of the cuts at the WR spot?

Before that, many times of saying will not suffice

 

Because no one would sign him this week. Not with Seneca Wallace, Matt Moore, Josh Johnson, Josh McCown, Brian Hoyer, Kafka, Rosenfels, etc., and maybe even Vince Young out there.

 

Point is:

1) Bills don't have to cut Thigpen to re-negotiate his salary. That can be done without cutting him.

2) Right now, Bills need Thigpen for the 1st game whether they cut him or renegotiate without cutting - which is a favorable condition for Thigpen to hold pat where he is, and not negotiate

 

Whether or not someone else would sign him this week, really isn't the point; I agree not likely

 

PS Moore not out there

Edited September 1, 2012 by Hopeful

[Rockinon]

Did you consider him a qb for the jets? He might throw the ball 5-10 times and learn the reads but he's just not really a qb. If they cut him and put Jackson in his role would he be a qb in your mind?

 

Never really considered him a real QB that can play a whole game. Just like I wouldn't want Fred or CJ as signal callers for a whole game. I do like the roles that CJ and Fred are in now and don't want to change that. Both all ready average more than 5 yards per carry. Why mess with that? As for Brad Smith, I think it's good that he got a lot of time practicing the QB position in the off season and I'd like to see what he can do before declaring that he should be flat out cut.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Rockinon

[Fan in Chicago]

I am uncomfortable with the WR corps right now. Compared to the second half of last year, we have a healthier Fitz, Jones back from injury, added TJ Graham and lost Roosevelt, Hagan and Aiken. I hope TJ pans out but it is too much to expect him to contribute right away. So, unless Jones becomes a legitimate threat (as opposed to being the #2 by default), we are in no better place than the end of last year. We had Spiller and Smith last year as WR options but that still did not make our passing game half way decent.

The expectations from the current WRs is assuming no injuries. As thin we are at LB, we are equally so at WR. All the arguments about why we are 'okay' with this WR group is just trying to reconcile with a poor situation. This is similar to how we kind of convinced ourselves over the past 2 seasons that the OL and DL will be 'okay'. Well they were not. And unless we add one or two proven WR threats, we have to expect the offense to be limited over the course of the season.

I looked at the roster and the tough thing is going to be deciding who to cut if we indeed sign a WR from yesterday's cuts. I cannot think of only Sam Young as being partly 'expendable'. Or we wait till after the Jets games, see if Tarvaris has caught up with the playbook and add a WR in place of Thigpen.

Bottom line - we cannot honestly go into the season feeling good about our WR group.

[Reed83HOF]

I am uncomfortable with the WR corps right now. Compared to the second half of last year, we have a healthier Fitz, Jones back from injury, added TJ Graham and lost Roosevelt, Hagan and Aiken. I hope TJ pans out but it is too much to expect him to contribute right away. So, unless Jones becomes a legitimate threat (as opposed to being the #2 by default), we are in no better place than the end of last year. We had Spiller and Smith last year as WR options but that still did not make our passing game half way decent.

The expectations from the current WRs is assuming no injuries. As thin we are at LB, we are equally so at WR. All the arguments about why we are 'okay' with this WR group is just trying to reconcile with a poor situation. This is similar to how we kind of convinced ourselves over the past 2 seasons that the OL and DL will be 'okay'. Well they were not. And unless we add one or two proven WR threats, we have to expect the offense to be limited over the course of the season.

I looked at the roster and the tough thing is going to be deciding who to cut if we indeed sign a WR from yesterday's cuts. I cannot think of only Sam Young as being partly 'expendable'. Or we wait till after the Jets games, see if Tarvaris has caught up with the playbook and add a WR in place of Thigpen.

Bottom line - we cannot honestly go into the season feeling good about our WR group.

 

When you ask any fan on here what our biggest holes are for next season's draft - it is WR, LB and QB (Fitz replacement).We did really good this offseason, but didn't address everything. the second WR position is going to be an issue until either Jones or Graham steps up this season, if not well. Next year. The answer isn't out there as an FA now...

[djp14150]

 

I keep hearing this mentioned but I'm still trying to figure out why in the world Thigpen would agree to this. Why would he agree to give up most of his salary only to be cut anyway after the Jets game? Also, I think it would show remarkable disrespect to Thigpen if the Bills cut him right before the opener so that he didn't have a chance to look for a long term opportunity with another team before having to resign with the Bills for a pay cut.

 

If he is cut he gets $0. Players understand this. I'm sure the bills talked with hm about this and possibly restructured the contract.

[Fan in San Diego]

I am uncomfortable with the WR corps right now. Compared to the second half of last year, we have a healthier Fitz, Jones back from injury, added TJ Graham and lost Roosevelt, Hagan and Aiken. I hope TJ pans out but it is too much to expect him to contribute right away. So, unless Jones becomes a legitimate threat (as opposed to being the #2 by default), we are in no better place than the end of last year. We had Spiller and Smith last year as WR options but that still did not make our passing game half way decent.

The expectations from the current WRs is assuming no injuries. As thin we are at LB, we are equally so at WR. All the arguments about why we are 'okay' with this WR group is just trying to reconcile with a poor situation. This is similar to how we kind of convinced ourselves over the past 2 seasons that the OL and DL will be 'okay'. Well they were not. And unless we add one or two proven WR threats, we have to expect the offense to be limited over the course of the season.

I looked at the roster and the tough thing is going to be deciding who to cut if we indeed sign a WR from yesterday's cuts. I cannot think of only Sam Young as being partly 'expendable'. Or we wait till after the Jets games, see if Tarvaris has caught up with the playbook and add a WR in place of Thigpen.

Bottom line - we cannot honestly go into the season feeling good about our WR group.

 

I see WR and LB being a high draft pick next year depending on FA acquisitions.

[djp14150]

 

When did Chan and Buddy stop saying that Brad Smith was the third QB? They've been saying it all through training camp and preseason. Now they have three QBs and only 4 WRs so Brad Smith is a WR. If this was going to be the case, they should've kept Easley instead.

 

Brad smith is the wildcat qb/ emergency qb. The issue is with the second strng qb. Jackson will be but it will take him maybe 4 weeks to know the offense. Then thigpen gets cut.

[hondo in seattle]

Agree, and have no answer. We have a spread offense that often uses four WRs...and we retain only four. What happens WHEN one gets hurt? Further, we have as many QBs as we do WRs! Does Gailey plan on using Thigpen as a receiver? Makes no sense retaining Thigpen, when you just cut Vince Young, and picked up a new QB with essentially the same skill set.

 

I've seen the explanations that since we usually have one back sets, the other back (Spiller) will be a WR, and Brad Smith is essentially a receiver. Spiller is a RB, he is no WR. Smith is a flex player, I wouldn't call him a WR.

 

Further, Roosevelt seemed destined to make the team, IMO.

 

Bizarre.

 

Like the Evans trade, I'm sure I'll see the error of my naysaying come playtime, but it does seem bizarre.

 

Yeah, I'm sure Chan & Buddy are up to something I just don't see yet.

 

I do get the four QBs, though. T Jack doesn't know the offense yet and Chan likes to suit up Smith as the #3 QB because he's multidimensional. But only 4 WRs? Despite all the good theories presented in this thread thus far, I'm still scratching my head and wondering what comes next.

[djp14150]

WR isn't that big of a need. Sure I see them drafting one in 2013. The top 3 picks would be qb, lb, and a position we need to replace due to UFA loss.

[Kelly the Dog]

Er....only one time, after we've seen enough to be convinced he out-plays some of the cuts at the WR spot?

Before that, many times of saying will not suffice

 

 

 

Point is:

1) Bills don't have to cut Thigpen to re-negotiate his salary. That can be done without cutting him.

2) Right now, Bills need Thigpen for the 1st game whether they cut him or renegotiate without cutting - which is a favorable condition for Thigpen to hold pat where he is, and not negotiate

 

Whether or not someone else would sign him this week, really isn't the point; I agree not likely

 

PS Moore not out there

It's the whole point. If someone would likely sign him, they wouldn't be able to re-negotiate and they would have to overpay him 1.5 million. But they know and he knows no one is going to sign him, so his agent is going to strongly advise that he takes the deal. If he doesn't, the Bills could sign Vince Young for one week. He would take the million dollars for one week of work.