Four WRs?

[Justice]

Bills are going to try to force teams into playing their base defense against us. Like many of you have already said in this thread, the Bills will use both CJ and Freddie and spilt one wide.

 

We might even see a variation of the K-Gun formation a whole lot, this year. One back lined-up in the backfield the other out wide along with Chandler at TE and DJ and SJ at receiver.

 

If the defense comes out in nickel to stop the pass the Bills will run, if they come out in their base defense we will pass. CJ or Freddie will be matched up against a linebacker and we should win that battle every time.

Edited September 1, 2012 by NoJustice

[Kelly the Dog]

I doubt that. Probably the reverse is more accurate.

 

Can somebody please confirm the salary implications of cutting Thigpen after the Jets game? My understanding is that he gets his full salary if he's on the roster opening day and it's a good chunk of change, so why would they cut him after one game?

I will try...

 

First off, it is not true that all "vested" veterans get their full season's salary if they are on the roster opening day. What is true, however, is that vested veterans, once in their career, can demand to be paid that season's full salary if they are released after the first game. It would seem to me that Thigpen has never used that option before, so he probably would. But I'm not positive about that.

 

As of now, his salary is about 2.5 million dollars. So if we keep him one week, for the Jets game, that is what he will receive, whether it's for one week on the roster (which is likely) or a few or several or all of them.

 

A very possible scenario, is to release Thigpen at the last possible moment before his salary becomes guaranteed (which may be the 4th of September, the day before the season starts), and immediately re-sign him to a lesser deal, say $1 million so that is all the team is on the hook for. With his history, and the film on him this summer, it's hard to imagine any team adding him to their active roster the day before the season, but it's possible I suppose. To me, it would be worth the 1.5 million risk.

 

IMO, there are only three reasons why Thigpen is still on the team, and all of them pretty much disintegrate after the Jets game. 1] Tjackson does not know enough of the playbook yet to be put in against the Jets if Fitz were to go down... 2] Brad Smith has a slight groin pull and won't be 100% for the Jets game which increases the problem of TJackson not being 100% ready... and 3] it's a hugely important opening day, against a division opponent we may be fighting for a playoff spot against. There would be a much, much less of a need to avoid the risk if this first game was not so important. Chances are, Thigpen is never going to see the field. But it may be too big of a risk to just throw the game away if Fitz goes down, partly because the Bills expect our defense to be very good and the Jets offense to be very bad, so one score could easily decide the game.

 

All of those factors combine for the need to keep Thigpen for one week, and possibly two depending on how long it takes TJackson to get up to speed and how bad the groin pull is to Smith, which doesn't look bad right now.

 

After Jackson is ready, there is no reason and IMO no way they keep Thigpen regardless of how much they have to pay him. We will need bodies at other positions as back-ups or as players we want to develop. TT has no future on this team.

[vincec]

A very possible scenario, is to release Thigpen at the last possible moment before his salary becomes guaranteed (which may be the 4th of September, the day before the season starts), and immediately re-sign him to a lesser deal, say $1 million so that is all the team is on the hook for. With his history, and the film on him this summer, it's hard to imagine any team adding him to their active roster the day before the season, but it's possible I suppose. To me, it would be worth the 1.5 million risk.

I keep hearing this mentioned but I'm still trying to figure out why in the world Thigpen would agree to this. Why would he agree to give up most of his salary only to be cut anyway after the Jets game? Also, I think it would show remarkable disrespect to Thigpen if the Bills cut him right before the opener so that he didn't have a chance to look for a long term opportunity with another team before having to resign with the Bills for a pay cut.

[Rockinon]

I think sometime between now and Sept 9th either Tavaraus Jackson or Tyler Thipen will be cut freeing up another spot As long as they are cut prior to game 1 they don't qualify for the full years pay, so then like you bring back another WR. It also may be they plan to do some special things with Dorin Dickerson that would line him up outside too. I also doubt John Potter will last the full year unless the team stays very healthy. At some point, they likely will need that roster spot.

Actually, I think it's means more of a role for Chandler, than Dickerson. But, Corey McIntyre is still on the roster plus we have 3 TEs in Scott Chandler, Lee Smith, Dorin Dickerson, which does seem to point to a bigger commitment toward running the ball as well.

[Mike in Syracuse]

Exactly how many times to Chan and Buddy need to say that Brad Smith is a WR before everyone realizes Smith is a WR?

Edited September 1, 2012 by Mike in Syracuse

[actionjackson1231]

Maybe we'll sign deon branch hahaa

[Rockinon]

1] The team usually uses either a 1 back set, so need for 4 receivers (of any kind), or an empty backfield where there are 5 receivers although usually one of them is a RB.

 

Actually, we did run a lot of 2 back sets last year. I read an article a while back about how successful it was. The thing is, many people forget that the extra back was Corey McIntyre. I was actually pretty surprised by how many times the Bills used that formation. Wish I could find that article.

[Kelly the Dog]

I keep hearing this mentioned but I'm still trying to figure out why in the world Thigpen would agree to this. Why would he agree to give up most of his salary only to be cut anyway after the Jets game? Also, I think it would show remarkable disrespect to Thigpen if the Bills cut him right before the opener so that he didn't have a chance to look for a long term opportunity with another team before having to resign with the Bills for a pay cut.

Ummm... because he gets one million dollars or nothing? He's not going to be a hot commodity on the open market. There are QBs without jobs right now that would be picked up before him, and maybe several of them.

 

The Bills actually did him a favor by not cutting him earlier, when he was clearly beat out by Young even though Young sucked. And letting him play most of the game against the Lions, therefore giving him one last chance to show some stuff when he has been brutal. This move pretty much ensures Thigpen of a million bucks and maybe 2.5 million. If he were cut last week he probably wouldn't have a job right now (although I think he would and will be picked up when someone gets an injury sometime during the season. he doesn't have a great track record, leverage, and had a terrible summer despite a few decent passes against third stringers in the last game.

[vincec]

Exactly how many time to Chan and Buddy need to say that Brad Smith is a WR before everyone realizes Smith is a WR?

When did Chan and Buddy stop saying that Brad Smith was the third QB? They've been saying it all through training camp and preseason. Now they have three QBs and only 4 WRs so Brad Smith is a WR. If this was going to be the case, they should've kept Easley instead.

[Kelly the Dog]

Actually, we did run a lot of 2 back sets last year. I read an article a while back about how successful it was. The thing is, many people forget that the extra back was Corey McIntyre. I was actually pretty surprised by how many times the Bills used that formation. Wish I could find that article.

Yeah, a decent amount. I was mostly thinking of passing downs or passing formations where you would think WRs would be needed. I imagine, however, that two backs was less than 20% of the plays and maybe closer to 10% but I am not sure. This year it should be significantly more.

[Just in Atlanta]

Agree, and have no answer. We have a spread offense that often uses four WRs...and we retain only four. What happens WHEN one gets hurt? Further, we have as many QBs as we do WRs! Does Gailey plan on using Thigpen as a receiver? Makes no sense retaining Thigpen, when you just cut Vince Young, and picked up a new QB with essentially the same skill set.

 

I've seen the explanations that since we usually have one back sets, the other back (Spiller) will be a WR, and Brad Smith is essentially a receiver. Spiller is a RB, he is no WR. Smith is a flex player, I wouldn't call him a WR.

 

Further, Roosevelt seemed destined to make the team, IMO.

 

Bizarre.

 

Like the Evans trade, I'm sure I'll see the error of my naysaying come playtime, but it does seem bizarre.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Just in Atlanta

[vincec]

Ummm... because he gets one million dollars or nothing? He's not going to be a hot commodity on the open market. There are QBs without jobs right now that would be picked up before him, and maybe several of them.

 

The Bills actually did him a favor by not cutting him earlier, when he was clearly beat out by Young even though Young sucked. And letting him play most of the game against the Lions, therefore giving him one last chance to show some stuff when he has been brutal. This move pretty much ensures Thigpen of a million bucks and maybe 2.5 million. If he were cut last week he probably wouldn't have a job right now (although I think he would and will be picked up when someone gets an injury sometime during the season. he doesn't have a great track record, leverage, and had a terrible summer despite a few decent passes against third stringers in the last game.

It's just no way to treat a solid team player. They release Merriman early, claiming to give him a chance to catch on with another team, and then they shaft Thigpen by not giving him that same opportunity, or even the same chance that they are giving the guys they just cut?

[Kelly the Dog]

When did Chan and Buddy stop saying that Brad Smith was the third QB? They've been saying it all through training camp and preseason. Now they have three QBs and only 4 WRs so Brad Smith is a WR. If this was going to be the case, they should've kept Easley instead.

Chan didn't, just the opposite in fact, and Smith is both. He will likely never play regular QB in any game (although he will play QB in the Wildcat). But he is a full-time emergency QB and a full-time #5 WR and a full-time Wildcat QB, which will materialize into a few plays a game at WR and a few plays a game at Wildcat QB.

 

It's just no way to treat a solid team player. They release Merriman early, claiming to give him a chance to catch on with another team, and then they shaft Thigpen by not giving him that same opportunity, or even the same chance that they are giving the guys they just cut?

I don't know this, it is just conjecture, but I think Thigpen is probably happy the Bills did it this way. And the only reason he wouldn't be, is if he over-valued his value around the league. If we did what you suggest, as a favor, no one would have signed him a week ago. He was beat out by Vince Young and no one has even looked at Young. Teams are looking to finalize their rosters and lose players at this time of year, and Thigpen was awful. Why do you think some team would have signed him last week?

[vincec]

I don't know this, it is just conjecture, but I think Thigpen is probably happy the Bills did it this way. And the only reason he wouldn't be, is if he over-valued his value around the league. If we did what you suggest, as a favor, no one would have signed him a week ago. He was beat out by Vince Young and no one has even looked at Young. Teams are looking to finalize their rosters and lose players at this time of year, and Thigpen was awful. Why do you think some team would have signed him last week?

If no one would've signed him then what's the harm in releasing him with the other cuts yesterday? He still would be there to resign next week right? The only reason to wait until the day before the game to cut him is if you think that someone MAY sign him and want to limit his chances to make a move to a better situation. That's disrespectful, IMO.

 

I'm going to give the Bills the benefit of the doubt and believe that they intend to keep him for at least the first part of the season, and at his full salary.

Edited September 1, 2012 by vincec

[Rockinon]

Yeah, a decent amount. I was mostly thinking of passing downs or passing formations where you would think WRs would be needed. I imagine, however, that two backs was less than 20% of the plays and maybe closer to 10% but I am not sure. This year it should be significantly more.

I just found that article.

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2012/8/8/3227496/buffalo-bills-fred-jackson-cj-spiller-chan-gailey

I thought it was kind of interesting. The Bills averaged 6.2 yards per carry using 2 backs.

[Mike in Syracuse]

When did Chan and Buddy stop saying that Brad Smith was the third QB? They've been saying it all through training camp and preseason. Now they have three QBs and only 4 WRs so Brad Smith is a WR. If this was going to be the case, they should've kept Easley instead.

 

Brad is working as a wide receiver now. He will be the third quarterback according to what Chan has said. I am sure that is right. Probably, you cannot carry four

- Buddy Nix 08-27-12

 

Smith is a wildcat QB and an emergency QB. it's he's ever taking regular snaps we're really screwed.

[NoSaint]

 

 

- Buddy Nix 08-27-12

 

Smith is a wildcat QB and an emergency QB. it's he's ever taking regular snaps we're really screwed.

 

Again, ill ask all those insisting we have 4 qbs- if he was a legit #3 qb, where were his preseason reps? He is a qb in title only. He is not a full time qb on this roster. Forget what chan has said and look at what he has done. Gris a utility player and given his flexibility we can go a little short at a few different spots. Today that's at WR.

Edited September 1, 2012 by NoSaint

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I keep hearing this mentioned but I'm still trying to figure out why in the world Thigpen would agree to this. Why would he agree to give up most of his salary only to be cut anyway after the Jets game? Also, I think it would show remarkable disrespect to Thigpen if the Bills cut him right before the opener so that he didn't have a chance to look for a long term opportunity with another team before having to resign with the Bills for a pay cut.

 

I have the very same question, vincec. I don't see this as a probable scenario at all. Essentially what's being discussed is Thigpen renegotiating his salary, which could be done without cutting him.

All it takes is both sides to agree. But it would seem to be in Thigpen's interest to say "No", since if he doesn't agree, the Bills have the choice between cutting him and taking their chances on Fitz staying healthy, or not cutting him and paying him $2.5 million even if he's cut. Also, if Thigpen is cut and looking for another team, negotiations will start at his current contract and work down - so why would he want to lower his starting point? Doesn't make sense to me.

[Kelly the Dog]

If no one would've signed him then what's the harm in releasing him with the other cuts yesterday? He still would be there to resign next week right? The only reason to wait until the day before the game to cut him is if you think that someone MAY sign him and want to limit his chances to make a move to a better situation. That's disrespectful, IMO.

 

I'm going to give the Bills the benefit of the doubt and believe that they intend to keep him for at least the first part of the season, and at his full salary.

You're right about the first part, that is the reason not to do it. I don't agree that it's necessarily disrespectful. It's a tough business. The Bills paid him over $3 million to suck last year, without even giving him any competition, maybe that was disrespectful of him to take that money. IMO, Tyler Thigpen has been treated a lot better by the Bills than he has treated the team by his performance. It has been godawful, and I was a solid backer of him as a back-up when they signed him and even when he played poorly last year.

 

Once Young was brought in, it was clear the team didn't want Thigpen anymore. And then he proceeded to stink up the joint this summer, too.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

He was beat out by Vince Young and no one has even looked at Young. Teams are looking to finalize their rosters and lose players at this time of year, and Thigpen was awful. Why do you think some team would have signed him last week?

 

Errrr....if Young beat out Thigpen, why is Thigpen still on the roster?