Over 29 years of fanhood Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I think its unfair to Eli to compare Fitz to him.. Fitz was drafted 1 year after him and has accomplished nothing compared to the giant QB. Yeah but have you ever seen Eli try to grow a beard? Its patchy and sparse. Just rediculous.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Well that brings up the argument.. did those receivers make Eli, or did Eli make those receivers? The receivers made him, and it is very obvious judging my his numbers... he wouldn't throw so many INTs if he was the man. I mean, look at the Tyree catch... that is Eli's career in a nutshell. If Fitz had those receivers and he was healthy, we would have made the playoffs. We just can't seem to draft a WR worth a damn... aside from Eric Moulds, Lee Evans and Andre Reed, we have failed- BIG time failed. Edited July 16, 2012 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 1342456420[/url]' post='2505497']The receivers made him, and it is very obvious judging my his numbers... he wouldn't throw so many INTs if he was the man. I mean, look at the Tyree catch... that is Eli's career in a nutshell. If Fitz had those receivers and he was healthy, we would have made the playoffs. We just can't seem to draft a WR worth a damn... aside from Eric Moulds, Lee Evans and Andre Reed, we have failed- BIG time failed. Yeah....the WRs made Eli. Lol. They are good. No doubt about it, but to say they made him is crazy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 The receivers made him, and it is very obvious judging my his numbers... he wouldn't throw so many INTs if he was the man. I mean, look at the Tyree catch... that is Eli's career in a nutshell. If Fitz had those receivers and he was healthy, we would have made the playoffs. We just can't seem to draft a WR worth a damn... aside from Eric Moulds, Lee Evans and Andre Reed, we have failed- BIG time failed. So he had a head case in Plaxico. A legit #1 in Nicks. An undrafted guy in Cruz. And a mediocre receiver in Manningham. I'm not sure if you remember the Tyree catch correctly.. Eli broke a tackle, escaped the pocket and hit Tyree in the head with the ball. All on 4th down. Fitz has Lee, Stevie, and Nelson. Not sure its that much of a drop off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millbank Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 in order for Fitz to be considered top echelon he need come up big at the needed time as the top echelon quarterbacks have.....school is out on this and only when they come to these points will we know. Average middle of the pack come close or fail, the tops ones succeed and make playoffs and go further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Fitz has Lee, Stevie, and Nelson. Not sure its that much of a drop off. The numbers say it is a pretty significant drop-off, considering the Giants offense versus our offense. I can't tell you the last time we had two receivers that caught for over 1,000 yards!!! I'm optimistic, but I'm also a realist. We don't have a playoff WR corps right now, but T.J. Graham could prove me wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickenbru Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) The receivers made him, and it is very obvious judging my his numbers... he wouldn't throw so many INTs if he was the man. I mean, look at the Tyree catch... that is Eli's career in a nutshell. If Fitz had those receivers and he was healthy, we would have made the playoffs. We just can't seem to draft a WR worth a damn... aside from Eric Moulds, Lee Evans and Andre Reed, we have failed- BIG time failed. Hypothetical question: who would you rather have, Fitzy and the Giant's receivers, or Eli and the Bill's receivers? I like Fitz, but I'd have to go with Eli and the Bill's receivers. Eli is not only extremely skilled; he is clutch. Edited July 16, 2012 by rickenbru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) It's easy to look at the success of the team last year and assume it was all on Fitzpatrick. The fact of the matter is that it simply wasn't. The defense was absolutely horrendous, particularly on third and long. They simply couldn't stop anyone. This leaves the play calling coming from the sidelines to be aggressive to stay in games, and the resultant turnovers. Let's look at some facts here: Fitzpatrick was the worst starter in the NFL in INT's, and the 5th worst starter in the NFL in INT percentage per pass attempt. If these turnovers are a result of poor mechanics and he gets them under control, then you can look at all the other metrics that support the notion that he could be in that upper echelon of quarterbacks. I would further define "upper echelon" as top-8. Here's why: Despite being injured from essentially game 6 on, here's where he ended the season among starters: TD's - 10th Passing Yards - 11th Completion % - 9th Sacks - 1st The real question that people aren't asking is an important one though. If we assume that the defense is vastly improved from last year, will the Bills still be running that same type of aggressive offense that they ran last year? While we won't know until that very first game against the Jets, I would say that I don't think so. If the Bills can get up on their opponents by 7-10 points, I think you'll see a lot more ball control offense with Jackson and Spiller and a lot more short to intermediate pass routes. At the end of the day, I would say we've seen improvement in 3 straight years from him and I have no reason to believe that Lee won't help him to improve further. The only question is by how much. i think you need to atleast normalize for per game. playing 16 games, in an offense that passes even halfway well will get you pretty close to that top ten fringe. i also think we need to come to a realization that most qbs are pretty beat up by the end of the year. his injury may have effected him more but any guy getting hit back there is going to be dealing with injuries. weve heard about several guys that probably should have been on the injury reports, as well as others that actually were. i think hes middle of the pack really and thats not a bad thing. Edited July 16, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 The numbers say it is a pretty significant drop-off, considering the Giants offense versus our offense. I can't tell you the last time we had two receivers that caught for over 1,000 yards!!! I'm optimistic, but I'm also a realist. We don't have a playoff WR corps right now, but T.J. Graham could prove me wrong! I'm not sure what numbers you're looking at to determine this.. you can't look at our offense vs their offense because we're trying to determine the reason why they're offense is better. Why don't you look at Plaxico's #'s before and after Eli.. thats a good place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 IMO opinion Fitz does not have to be a upper echelon QB in order for this team to win.... He simply needs to know his role and not press out of it. - Throw the passes that you can throw accurately - DONT FORCE IT.....hopefully now we have a defense that will keep us in games so we dont need to force the ball trying to make something happen. If its not there.....throw the ball away......let the defense (which we have put LOADS of talent on) keep us in the games.......I dont worry as much about them being on the field now because we have a quality DL rotation.......even when Mario and Kelsay come out for a blow...here comes Merriman and Anderson......even when Williams and Darius come out for a blow......in comes Heard, or Spencer Johnson, or Carrington, or Troup......I know the back names at DT dont WOW anybody.....but when you consider who will be playing NEXT to them at any given time......we will still be ok. - We have a VERY nice duo of running backs....USE THEM - This offensive line looks quite good on paper......it appears that we have depth as well...... I dont think Fitz needs to be all world in order to win....in fact I think that the bills have nicely set him up for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
You herd it hear last Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 That clip of Fitz going crazy, screaming, jumping up and down on his teammates says a lot to me. Not all of it positive. It showed a little immaturity and a lack of that unemotional, cold, calculating, calmness I believe you need to be an upper echelon QB. But with that said, I'm glad he brings that kind of passion and excitement, because it's fun to watch the drama unfold. I think many QB's in the league can come out and have 1 good year (at least), but it needs to coincide with good coaching, defensive play, etc. If the stars can align like we all hope, we will totally dominate our opponents this year, not, "do you think we'll be 4-3? or is it possible to split with the patriots* this year?, blah blah blah..." NO!!!... DOMINATE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 It's easy to look at the success of the team last year and assume it was all on Fitzpatrick. The fact of the matter is that it simply wasn't. The defense was absolutely horrendous, particularly on third and long. They simply couldn't stop anyone. This leaves the play calling coming from the sidelines to be aggressive to stay in games, and the resultant turnovers. Let's look at some facts here: Fitzpatrick was the worst starter in the NFL in INT's, and the 5th worst starter in the NFL in INT percentage per pass attempt. If these turnovers are a result of poor mechanics and he gets them under control, then you can look at all the other metrics that support the notion that he could be in that upper echelon of quarterbacks. I would further define "upper echelon" as top-8. Here's why: Despite being injured from essentially game 6 on, here's where he ended the season among starters: TD's - 10th Passing Yards - 11th Completion % - 9th Sacks - 1st The real question that people aren't asking is an important one though. If we assume that the defense is vastly improved from last year, will the Bills still be running that same type of aggressive offense that they ran last year? While we won't know until that very first game against the Jets, I would say that I don't think so. If the Bills can get up on their opponents by 7-10 points, I think you'll see a lot more ball control offense with Jackson and Spiller and a lot more short to intermediate pass routes. At the end of the day, I would say we've seen improvement in 3 straight years from him and I have no reason to believe that Lee won't help him to improve further. The only question is by how much. For his career he has 68 TDs and 65 INTs. That seams more of a decision issue than mechanics, IMO. http://www.nfl.com/player/ryanfitzpatrick/2506581/profile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swnybillsfan Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 IMO opinion Fitz does not have to be a upper echelon QB in order for this team to win.... He simply needs to know his role and not press out of it. - Throw the passes that you can throw accurately - DONT FORCE IT.....hopefully now we have a defense that will keep us in games so we dont need to force the ball trying to make something happen. If its not there.....throw the ball away......let the defense (which we have put LOADS of talent on) keep us in the games.......I dont worry as much about them being on the field now because we have a quality DL rotation.......even when Mario and Kelsay come out for a blow...here comes Merriman and Anderson......even when Williams and Darius come out for a blow......in comes Heard, or Spencer Johnson, or Carrington, or Troup......I know the back names at DT dont WOW anybody.....but when you consider who will be playing NEXT to them at any given time......we will still be ok. - We have a VERY nice duo of running backs....USE THEM - This offensive line looks quite good on paper......it appears that we have depth as well...... I dont think Fitz needs to be all world in order to win....in fact I think that the bills have nicely set him up for success. this was very nicely put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 1342457314[/url]' post='2505512']in order for Fitz to be considered top echelon he need come up big at the needed time as the top echelon quarterbacks have.....school is out on this and only when they come to these points will we know. Average middle of the pack come close or fail, the tops ones succeed and make playoffs and go further. It IS really this, IMO, and the corresponding article on BB homepage alludes to it. The talent level in the League is so high, it comes down to the last drive or 2 in the game and which QB delivers. Our early season success was a microcosm of this, with come from behind W's vs. Oakland, Philly & NE. We didn't have the horses on the back half and usually found ourselves trailing by more than 1 score. Fitzy Did show he could take a healthy Offense down the field and score with the game on the line early. Likewise, Eli pulled it off on us.. 'Keep the game close and see who delivers in the clutch' is the new game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 this was very nicely put. + 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IslandBillsFan Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I highly doubt it. He really doesn't scare anyone Wrong. As a Bills fan he scares me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsrhody Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 IMO opinion Fitz does not have to be a upper echelon QB in order for this team to win.... He simply needs to know his role and not press out of it. - Throw the passes that you can throw accurately - DONT FORCE IT.....hopefully now we have a defense that will keep us in games so we dont need to force the ball trying to make something happen. If its not there.....throw the ball away......let the defense (which we have put LOADS of talent on) keep us in the games.......I dont worry as much about them being on the field now because we have a quality DL rotation.......even when Mario and Kelsay come out for a blow...here comes Merriman and Anderson......even when Williams and Darius come out for a blow......in comes Heard, or Spencer Johnson, or Carrington, or Troup......I know the back names at DT dont WOW anybody.....but when you consider who will be playing NEXT to them at any given time......we will still be ok. - We have a VERY nice duo of running backs....USE THEM - This offensive line looks quite good on paper......it appears that we have depth as well...... I dont think Fitz needs to be all world in order to win....in fact I think that the bills have nicely set him up for success. I don't think we can beat teams like the patriots, packers or giants with an offensive attitude like this. Our offense needs to be able to put points on the board and our quaterback definitely needs to be able to lead a game winning drive and come up big with clutch throws. what you described is a quaterback who "manages" the game and cannot carry a team. QBs that carry a team are the QBs that win superbowl. The days of Trent Dilfer are looking further and further away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gumby Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Wrong. As a Bills fan he scares me. Oh no you Di'int ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorkington Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I expect him to be efficient, not someone who can carry a team. If our defense plays stout and we don't abandon the run game, I fully expect Fitzpatrick to put up some quality numbers. But not elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOUSE Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Buffalo's offense is built around the short pass. Until Fitz can somehow hit a few long passes he will never be considered elite We already have pro football experts calling Fitz a point guard like in Basketball, I have to agree..... Edited July 16, 2012 by HOUSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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