ronhelms40 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I noticed in Chris Brown's OTA Day 1 roundup he mentioned that T.J. Graham was getting reps with the first team. This is because Stevie Johnson was held out as he recovers his groin surgery. However the more pressing question I have is when did T.J. Graham sign a contract. I did not see any announcements of a contract being signed. You think he may want to sign a deal before he takes part in OTA's, or at least his agent would want one signed. Please correct me if I missed the signing. It is possible the agent was given assurances that if he gets hurt that he will still get a proper contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 He might have taken out an insurance policy against injury. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I noticed in Chris Brown's OTA Day 1 roundup he mentioned that T.J. Graham was getting reps with the first team. This is because Stevie Johnson was held out as he recovers his groin surgery. However the more pressing question I have is when did T.J. Graham sign a contract. I did not see any announcements of a contract being signed. You think he may want to sign a deal before he takes part in OTA's, or at least his agent would want one signed. Please correct me if I missed the signing. It is possible the agent was given assurances that if he gets hurt that he will still get a proper contract. Rookies partake regularly in otas without deals. See every season pre-CBA when no one signed til July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickelCity Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 What is this jackaroo doin'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoretalk Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 No Ralph is too cheap - our third rounders are always last to sign - Graham doesn't want to play - We should have taken Wilson - I am so done with the Bills On a different note - sure looks like he fits in! Unsigned rookies can participate in these OTA's but not training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Didn't someone mention here that third round picks are a little more complicated to sign. Rounds 1-2 and 4-7 are layed out in the new CBA, but for some reason round 3 was left out. Almost like a team uses whatever money it has left set aside for rookies deals to sign that player? IF this is correct maybe he and his agent are waiting till after OTA's and see if they can make an impression or if any buddy gets cut? Maybe way off base, but was a thought, and i am sure someone will point out it is a dumb one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I wonder if the signing of session was in part motivated to send a message to graham, spots are being filled up, keep dragging this out and you may not have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I wonder if the signing of session was in part motivated to send a message to graham, spots are being filled up, keep dragging this out and you may not have one. Umm, no. The guy is participating. You don't "give up" on 3rd round draft picks because of contract negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Umm, no, I didn't say "give up" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Umm, no, I didn't say "give up" Ok, forgive me. You don't "send a message" to 3rd round picks during OTAs by bringing in more competition. You do recall the Bills actually traded up to get Graham, right? He is a lock to make the roster; the contract negotiations are a mild hiccup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 IF this is correct maybe he and his agent are waiting till after OTA's and see if they can make an impression or if any buddy gets cut? Maybe way off base, but was a thought, and i am sure someone will point out it is a dumb one! I don't know if your thought is a dumb one but it sure is cold. Very cold. I wonder if the signing of session was in part motivated to send a message to graham, spots are being filled up, keep dragging this out and you may not have one. There's only one way to interpret this so you're mincing words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Ok, forgive me. You don't "send a message" to 3rd round picks during OTAs by bringing in more competition. You do recall the Bills actually traded up to get Graham, right? He is a lock to make the roster; the contract negotiations are a mild hiccup. Ok I guess you definitely know everything. Must have special access. I was merely wondering. I also wonder (if that's ok with you) if they're emphasizing to graham and his agent they drafted him higher than consensus, another reason to get in line because he won't find anyone else willin to treat him like a 3rd.( Again only if you approve of my wondering and speculation, given your special definitive access.) There's only one way to interpret this so you're mincing words. obviously not since you're interpreting it differently. Edited May 31, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I wonder if the signing of session was in part motivated to send a message to graham, spots are being filled up, keep dragging this out and you may not have one. Umm, no. The guy is participating. You don't "give up" on 3rd round draft picks because of contract negotiations. Umm, no, I didn't say "give up" There's only one way to interpret this so you're mincing words. obviously not since you're interpreting it differently. Okay. Exactly what did you mean by your first statement (bolded above)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Ok I guess you definitely know everything. Must have special access. I was merely wondering. I also wonder (if that's ok with you) if they're emphasizing to graham and his agent they drafted him higher than consensus, another reason to get in line because he won't find anyone else willin to treat him like a 3rd.( Again only if you approve of my wondering and speculation, given your special definitive access.) Are you trying to pick a fight? I don't have special access, I have common sense. There's no issue of "getting in line" here. It's freaking May, we're in OTAs, and Graham is participating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 He's still got 6 weeks to sign before I start to worry. @Joe: They didn't sign Session to "send any messages"...that's rediculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 He's still got 6 weeks to sign before I start to worry. @Joe: They didn't sign Session to "send any messages"...that's rediculous. I guess you have the same "special access" I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I wonder if the signing of session was in part motivated to send a message to graham, spots are being filled up, keep dragging this out and you may not have one. Relax, we're not even in the mandatory workouts yet and he is at practice. Very few teams have all their picks signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I don't know if your thought is a dumb one but it sure is cold. Very cold. There's only one way to interpret this so you're mincing words. I get it isn't nice. But football is about production. If you can play, you get paid, right? I mean we all hear it, 'this is a business'. Players say it more then anyone. And after watching Moneyball, which i am sure took some liberties, you kinda get to see how it is done. It is not personal. Someone has to make the tough decision and decide who gets to keep living their dream, and whose time has come to hang them up. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Didn't someone mention here that third round picks are a little more complicated to sign. Rounds 1-2 and 4-7 are layed out in the new CBA, but for some reason round 3 was left out. Almost like a team uses whatever money it has left set aside for rookies deals to sign that player? IF this is correct maybe he and his agent are waiting till after OTA's and see if they can make an impression or if any buddy gets cut? Maybe way off base, but was a thought, and i am sure someone will point out it is a dumb one! everythings laid out, but there are some spots where natural transitions do occur and as an agent you want to make sure your guy makes it with the group ahead that gets the extra perk, and not the group behind. its not just round 3, but for instance between slots (approx) 17-25, teams started offering the last year of contracts in a different format(i only half remember the details, so i wont pretend to guess, but i believe it was the pats that did it first) but it was a concern those guys would take a bit longer because last year the cutoff landed around pick 20 with the way negotiations fell. early in the 3rd is another one of those steps down in the formatting of the contracts. hed be silly to hold out waiting for someone to be cut, as he wont be offered more than the guy ahead of him. and on the off chance he does match or get a couple thousand more, it wont be a huge amount of bump that suddenly gets him a huge advantage. the pay is still pretty tightly slotted all the way through, but there are some subtleties in length and such that do hold up certain pick ranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Who cares about his contract status if he's fully participating in the OTAs and learning the offense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) everythings laid out, but there are some spots where natural transitions do occur and as an agent you want to make sure your guy makes it with the group ahead that gets the extra perk, and not the group behind. its not just round 3, but for instance between slots (approx) 17-25, teams started offering the last year of contracts in a different format(i only half remember the details, so i wont pretend to guess, but i believe it was the pats that did it first) but it was a concern those guys would take a bit longer because last year the cutoff landed around pick 20 with the way negotiations fell. early in the 3rd is another one of those steps down in the formatting of the contracts. hed be silly to hold out waiting for someone to be cut, as he wont be offered more than the guy ahead of him. and on the off chance he does match or get a couple thousand more, it wont be a huge amount of bump that suddenly gets him a huge advantage. the pay is still pretty tightly slotted all the way through, but there are some subtleties in length and such that do hold up certain pick ranges. What if it's the bills side who are trying to pay him something less than his draft position, saying he could have been a 5th or 6th rounder. So he ought to e happy theyre offer is more like a late 3rd/ high 4th? Edited May 31, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 What if it's the bills side who are trying to pay him something less than his draft position, saying he could have been a 5th or 6th rounder. So he ought to e happy theyre offer is more like a late 3rd/ high 4th? Shoulda, coulda woulda, they moved UP to grab him, to try to negotiate from the position that he was "over drafted", which is BS btw, wouldn't make any sense. This whole Over drafted opinion is from the Experts, but not the FO, I'm sure Buddy Nix thinks he got him exactly where he thought he would. As others have pointed out, 3rd rd picks are, for some reason, becoming difficult to sign, but rest assured TJ will sign, he'll be in camp. There is no "message being sent" by signing some scrub off the street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 These are negotiations, both sides will use what ammo they have to try and get a better deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 These are negotiations, both sides will use what ammo they have to try and get a better deal. Perhaps, but part of the Bills' "ammo" is not the signing of another FA rookie WR during OTAs. That was your premise, and it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 What if it's the bills side who are trying to pay him something less than his draft position, saying he could have been a 5th or 6th rounder. So he ought to e happy theyre offer is more like a late 3rd/ high 4th? Has anyone ever done that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 There must be some degree of variation in these deals Othereise there'd be nothing to negotiate. Can always soften it by making it more incentive driven: "if you play like the xx overall, you'll get paid like it " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 The money saved wouldn't be worth the bad press from bad faith negotiations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Who cares about his contract status if he's fully participating in the OTAs and learning the offense... My thoughts exactly. I'll worry more around training camp time. Actually, I see this is a good thing. He does not have a contract but showed up to OTAs,--which he did not have to do. [i could be wrong about that, if so, ignore entire post]. To me, it shows (1) a player that wants to be a star, and (2) that a contract is probably close, or as someone said, he has an insurance policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInUticaTampa Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Has anyone ever done that? Never saw it like that coming from the team. I have seen it come from players like crabtree saying he should have gotten paid more than the raiders guy that was drafted like 4 spots ahead of him. But that doesn't really apply here. It would be really scary if the bills come out and tell him they don't want to pay him 3rd round money because they think he is 5th round talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgang Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Only 12 picks in the 3rd round have been signed as of today, and none of the 3rd round guys picked before TJ have signed. Link: http://www.spotrac.com/draft-tracker/nfl/ So he is tracking what appears to be the norm. Nothing to be concerned about yet... I am glad he is at OTAs though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Never saw it like that coming from the team. I have seen it come from players like crabtree saying he should have gotten paid more than the raiders guy that was drafted like 4 spots ahead of him. But that doesn't really apply here. It would be really scary if the bills come out and tell him they don't want to pay him 3rd round money because they think he is 5th round talent. thats my point - IT DOESNT HAPPEN EVER. the players holding out example, was HIGH in the first round. 4 slots here is like 50-100k over the life of the contract. at this point everything is pretty close together, but no one wants to be the first guy to sign and have the one behind get a SLIGHTLY better deal. all it is, and likely mostly agents driving it so they dont lose clients next year. joe is just looking for attention in this thread. Edited May 31, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
widerightradio Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Only the Ravens, Panthers, Bears, Packers, Chargers, and Seahawks have all their picks signed. Several teams have no picks signed. Bills are doing just fine, particularly when you consider that the top 8 picks are unsigned. Sheppard took until training camp to sign last year because the difficulties signing third round picks under the new rookie salary cap. The deal will get done. For what it's worth, if someone told me I could make another $10k to $20k by waiting to sign on the dotted line, I'd wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAWNDO Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Only the Ravens, Panthers, Bears, Packers, Chargers, and Seahawks have all their picks signed. Several teams have no picks signed. Bills are doing just fine, particularly when you consider that the top 8 picks are unsigned. Sheppard took until training camp to sign last year because the difficulties signing third round picks under the new rookie salary cap. The deal will get done. For what it's worth, if someone told me I could make another $10k to $20k by waiting to sign on the dotted line, I'd wait. Sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Jose Bills Fan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 IF this is correct maybe he and his agent are waiting till after OTA's and see if they can make an impression or if any buddy gets cut? I was making a (bad) joke. You wrote "any buddy gets cut" instead of "anybody gets cut." Thus I said it was "cold." Now having explained it, I realize even more what a bad joke it was. Only 12 picks in the 3rd round have been signed as of today, and none of the 3rd round guys picked before TJ have signed. Link: http://www.spotrac.c...ft-tracker/nfl/ I am glad he is at OTAs though. Only the Ravens, Panthers, Bears, Packers, Chargers, and Seahawks have all their picks signed. Several teams have no picks signed. Thanks fellas. Perhaps now we won't have to hear some of the preposterous theories about why Graham hasn't signed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 He won't miss any off-season stuff and will be signed before training camp. This isn't an issue unless he misses any practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) joe is just looking for attention in this thread. Only in the sense that anyone posting on a message board is. Beyond that just offering up some ideas why he's unsigned. I don't claim to have a crystal ball /special access allowing me to make definitive "absolutely yes/absolutely no" declarations like some of you though. As for graham I had a hunch the seeds were sown for contract problems from the beginning, because he was drafted so much higher than forecast. So low that many analysts didnt bother forecasting him at all, and this one that did put him at the bottom of the 5th. http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1129035-tj-graham-to-bills-video-highlights-scouting-report-and-analysis The problem I saw was graham letting it go to his head and holding out for the max, and the bills taken aback by his reaction and offering to pay at the very bottom of the range for his draft slot. And if you think in negotiations teams don't lay it on thick about how "without us you could have been drafted at least 2 rounds later blah blah blah," I'd say you're extremely naive. Edited May 31, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Only in the sense that anyone posting on a message board is. Beyond that just offering up some ideas why he's unsigned. I don't claim to have a crystal ball /special access allowing me to make definitive "absolutely yes/absolutely no" declarations like some of you though. As for graham I had a hunch the seeds were sown for contract problems from the beginning, because he was drafted so much higher than forecast. So low that many analysts didnt bother forecasting him at all, and this one that did put him at the bottom of the 5th. http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1129035-tj-graham-to-bills-video-highlights-scouting-report-and-analysis The problem I saw was graham letting it go to his head and holding out for the max, and the bills taken aback by his reaction and offering to pay at the very bottom of the range for his draft slot. And if you think in negotiations teams don't lay it on thick about how "without us you could have been drafted at least 2 rounds later blah blah blah," I'd say you're extremely naive. He will be paid in line with his slot. His slot is a bit up in the air based on where it fell in the 3rd (high 3rd at that). It doesnt matter where he was projected and if the bills implied he'd go two rounds lower they'd be laughed out of the room for not having taken him two rounds later if they believed it. What you are describing is not a real thing. At best it's huuuugely exaggerated. Yes they may sometimes say take it or leave it, that deal will always be in line with the draft slot... It was a problem spot before his name was announced, not because of his name being announced. To imply signing a FA was a message to him is equally improbable. He will make the team. He will get his reps. It's just how the world works. He has no reason to rush. It's as simple as simple could be yet you want to bring up outlandish possibilities then totally disassociate when called on them. Edited May 31, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshiero Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 He might have taken out an insurance policy against injury. It wouldn't be the first time that has happened. First WR to do it on the Bills was Eric Moulds :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Only in the sense that anyone posting on a message board is. Beyond that just offering up some ideas why he's unsigned. I don't claim to have a crystal ball /special access allowing me to make definitive "absolutely yes/absolutely no" declarations like some of you though. As for graham I had a hunch the seeds were sown for contract problems from the beginning, because he was drafted so much higher than forecast. So low that many analysts didnt bother forecasting him at all, and this one that did put him at the bottom of the 5th. http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1129035-tj-graham-to-bills-video-highlights-scouting-report-and-analysis The problem I saw was graham letting it go to his head and holding out for the max, and the bills taken aback by his reaction and offering to pay at the very bottom of the range for his draft slot. And if you think in negotiations teams don't lay it on thick about how "without us you could have been drafted at least 2 rounds later blah blah blah," I'd say you're extremely naive. I don't remember where I read or heard this. Round 1&2 picks are still payed fairly decent money in the new CBA. Rounds 4-7 are getting paid way less. Round 3 is the bridge between the two pay levels. I wouldn't be surprised if he is not the only unsigned #3. If what I heard is truth. Either way they are probably discussing the language of the new CBA regarding his slot. The money differences can't be far off at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I don't remember where I read or heard this. Round 1&2 picks are still payed fairly decent money in the new CBA. Rounds 4-7 are getting paid way less. Round 3 is the bridge between the two pay levels. I wouldn't be surprised if he is not the only unsigned #3. If what I heard is truth. Either way they are probably discussing the language of the new CBA regarding his slot. The money differences can't be far off at all. Roughly. Round 3 has nearly no one signed. To act like "I knew he'd be trouble from the start" is nonsense. Anyone following the trend from last year knew that the round 3 pick would like be our hardest if you asked them during the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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