Zulu Cthulhu Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The trolling in this thread is stupendous. Eh, you knew there would be scores of people overreacting to this. GW repeatedly broke an NFL rule. A rule Goodell is determined to enforce vigorously to protect the league from future lawsuits. Simple as that. Don't worry people, Williams will be gone for a very long time. But if you think that speech on that tape is in any way unique to GW, youre deluding yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) My point wasn't that this is anything like murder, either. I think you know that, too. You seek to carry the spectrum of discussion to the field and any subsequent egregious hits that did or didn't occur. That did or didn't result in injury. It seems that as long as nobody was actually hurt or otherwise carried out Williams' instructions, then somehow it's just not as bad as it's being made out to be. What transpired on the field isn't the precluding factor. It's not even a factor at all. It's what occurred in those meeting rooms with players when the pay scale was set up BEFORE they hit the field by a person in a leadership position and with the full knowledge of his immediate superiors. The fact the Williams "conspired" to commit injuries is the crime. Not whether or not anyone was actually injured. Again, it's as black and white as it gets. GO BILLS!!! Fine let's go there, I'm talking the same thing anyway... Was the intent dirty hits? Would he cover fines? Did cart off mean cart off literally, or was it as has been said, just missing a play? Did he fine players for penalties? Which penalties? Who knew and what did they do? Schefter is reporting he was ordered to stop. Short of knowing what he actually paid the guys for, which we don't really know - there's going to be some conjecture. Using what happened on the field is a good way to try to figure out what the planned intent might have been. It's more than right or wrong. It was wrong. We agree. I'm using what happened on the field to try and answer those locker room questions I have. If he told a guy go hit him dirty, I'll pay the fine and a little extra, I wouldn't have a problem with jail time. If it was hit them big, go destroy them with clean legal hits, I look at it different. Still not right, but that's the discussion I'm trying to have. Edited April 5, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Fine let's go there: Was the intent dirty hits? Would he cover fines? Did cart off mean cart off literally, or was it as has been said, just missing a play? Did he fine players for penalties? Which penalties? Who knew and what did they do? Schefter is reporting he was ordered to stop. It's more than right or wrong. It was wrong. We agree. I'm using what happened on the field to try and answer those locker room questions I have. If he told a guy go hit him dirty, I'll pay the fine and a little extra, I wouldn't have a problem with jail time. If it was hit them big, go destroy them with clean legal hits, I look at it different. Still not right, but that's the discussion I'm trying to have. Nor would I or anyone else have a problem with that. Football is all about clean, hard, snot-noze hits. It's even about players over the history of the game saying their intention is to bring pain and hurt to the opponent. Dick Butkus anyone? Fred Williamson? But if Williams' true intention was clean hard hits, then why the need to hold meetings and create the monetary incentives for certain kinds of hits in the first place? GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smears Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 It' men's FOOTBALL, the roughest sport in the world. A coach like that would fire me up in the locker and there would be a bloodbath on the field. We all love the big hits and it's been a part of this game forever. I'll bet my left nut these speeches have been going on for years in the NFL. Can you imagine what Ray Lewis says to his defense before they hit the field? It amazes me to have hardcore football fans react like little girls to a speech like coach Williams. Why don't we turn the NFL into a girly girl sport before more NFL players get hurt. Geeezus, can we protect the QB's some more? The NFL is badass and I love the big hits. Would like to see the Bills defense get more hardcore next year and start taking opposing players out of the game. I want our defense to be feared! ) "We need to put a !@#$ing lick on him right now" If you are a defensive player you want to hear that type of attitude from your couch. You want your fellow players to be fired up by this also. I like the attitude Gregg Williams has, but you shouldnt wish injury on a man. Or say things like, "Lets find out about #10s concussion!" Pointing to specific parts of players bodies or injuries is bad taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Did I catch a "sweep the leg" in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 But if you think that speech on that tape is in any way unique to GW, youre deluding yourselves. What is your evidence??? Or are you just being cynical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsGuyInMalta Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Did I catch a "sweep the leg" in there? "Do you have a problem with that?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshiero Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 He in fact literally told his players to take out the ACL of a player. Listen to it again. Its disgusting and cowardly. Relying on your players to injure the opposition in order to win is cowardly. Yeah I didn't make it up, seems some are so set on defending the policy and person they are going to ignore fact I think the injuries were more then welcome by him. i think he wanted players to hurt - as thats how a lot of games are won. if the guys not 100%, or if hes out of the game, your odds of winning just went up. i dont think its about intentional career enders that are dirty though. i think that he was perfectly happy being in a guys head, but if he got injured, oh well, all the better for the win. i agree he crossed a line. i just dont know how you reign in that line or where it falls. the giants admit to targeting SF players with head injuries just the next week after this audio. is that different to you? is it that its a coach and not players that makes it cross the line? its a weird slippery slope when you start talking about where to draw the line and how to enforce it in a game so physical with so much riding on the outcome. how many players did we knock out when gregg was here toshiero? do you have that same feeling towards any players that were here then? YES! It is chicken **** and I don't care who or what team does it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 (edited) Nor would I or anyone else have a problem with that. Football is all about clean, hard, snot-noze hits. It's even about players over the history of the game saying their intention is to bring pain and hurt to the opponent. Dick Butkus anyone? Fred Williamson? But if Williams' true intention was clean hard hits, then why the need to hold meetings and create the monetary incentives for certain kinds of hits in the first place? GO BILLS!!! why did he have them for fumbles and interceptions if thats the question.... i think it was about prioritizing aggressive play. i think he was a-okay with injuries happening, but im not sold that injuries at all costs was the number 1 priority. thats certainly not fact though, just my take based on what ive heard in reports, and the tidbits ive heard come out of the saints facility the last few months/years. speaking to some rumors ive heard..... due to his "total defensive control" clause, many in the organization thought he got totally out of control. rumors that he basically walked around the building with an F you attitude to anyone that told him what to do. that he was told to stop this, and that this did play a role in why there werent even brief discussions about bringing him back. word has it the team was livid about some stuff going on but they chose to basically ride it out and let him walk. to fire him you have to pay him, or fess up to the old stuff. in some ways their hands got tied once they started letting him slide in the first place. by the time the third year came around and the investigation cropped back up, its not like they were going to fire him mid-playoff run - and he knew it. he was totally arrogant and thought he was untouchable. the total autonomy clause was allegedly a huuuuge mistake... stuff like that leads me to believe you could be totally right about how you view it and gregg may have been totally off his rocker, but im not sure based on what ive gathered so far. Edited April 5, 2012 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 What is your evidence??? Or are you just being cynical? I don't have any secret recordings to provide you. But i have heard some player testimonies that this kind of thing was (and is) rampant in the league. Rather be cynical than naive bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I know I've said it before but I cannot stop laughing whenever I see your avatar. What's so funny about his avatar? I see a fine woman who can do things that a girl with teeth can't do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt in KC Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Are the parallel Greg Williams tape and audio threads some type of highbrow humor about the documentary video and audio no being recorded together? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Who cares what he old, white guy said. Without showing me some action whereby the Saints acted on it, the punishment should be limited to the ahole who said it. It's so overblown it's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 why did he have them for fumbles and interceptions if thats the question.... i think it was about prioritizing aggressive play. i think he was a-okay with injuries happening, but im not sold that injuries at all costs was the number 1 priority. thats certainly not fact though, just my take based on what ive heard in reports, and the tidbits ive heard come out of the saints facility the last few months/years. ive also heard that due to his "total defensive control" clause, that many in the organization thought he got totally out of control. rumors that he basically walked around the building with an F you attitude to anyone that told him what to do. that he was told to stop this, and that this did play a role in why there werent even brief discussions about bringing him back. Fumbles and ints are all in the spirit of fair play. Of course it was about prioritizing aggressive play. All good coaches preach this, regardless of the sport. Of course he was ok with injuries. That's why he set up a graduated pay scale for injurious hits in the first place. I would hope injuries weren't the number one priority but the fact he was ok with them AND WILLING TO PAY FOR THEM suggests he placed a high value on them AT LEAST. It's damning and indefensible no matter the 'intent' which is why intent doesn't matter. And contrary to many, NOT all good coaches engage in this type of behavior. Far from it. It's too bad the Saints didn't can his ass before this all got out of hand for them. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eme123 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I'm sure you would. I'm nobody over here. You're Mr. Internet thug... Football players are warriors. Men. If you hear a pre game speech from say a Ray Lewis or a Tom Coughlin, it makes you want to go to war and fight. Now listening to GW's speech sounds like a head scratcher like, ok where are you going with this coach? I was waiting for him to drop the N word in the speech but he stuck with the mofo curses... The dude sounded like an animal and this is just me being psychic but, also a little racist. There's no evidence of racism I know but I'm just going by racism I've heard in my life and I put money on that he was biting his tongue a lot in his speech... I actually misunderstood what you meant about me getting hit in the head and that led to my previous response. I could be a thug or I could be 150lb skinny guy w/ glasses. You will never know. haha Anyways, GW sounds stupid and animal like in this recording. I totally agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 The year the saints won the superbowl. And beat the Vikings in the nfc championship game. Puts the way they played against Favre in a new light. I'd like to hear the speech ole bullhorn williams gave before that game. As for the tape in my opinion there is criminal intent on his part. That being the ACL and concussion remarks. That POS should be banned for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deep2Moulds46 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 wow, if you think that's bad, look what he said to the media after the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Too many comments by Williams about the head.. Just way over the top. I'm sure he's been doing this ever since his TENN days but he was busted. I hope he is never allowed back. It's a priviledge to play and coach in the NFL. He should be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Player Available Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 Wow tough talk when your not the one that has to do the hitting. Yea, you got to wonder what he said at the team buffet everyday too. Oops probably had to much sausage in his mouth to speak. I would like to hear a Dick Jauron speech the night before. crickets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefenseWinzChampionshipz Posted April 5, 2012 Share Posted April 5, 2012 I actually misunderstood what you meant about me getting hit in the head and that led to my previous response. I could be a thug or I could be 150lb skinny guy w/ glasses. You will never know. haha Anyways, GW sounds stupid and animal like in this recording. I totally agree with that. It's all good bro lol... At least we agree on that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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