aristocrat Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 How many people drank in college? I'd actually be more worried if he didn't drink in college and then came into the league. And for someone to say the kid didn't get separation is about the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. The kid is the most physical wide receiver in the draft and is built with the Hines Ward type mentality with the way he uses his body to go up and get the ball and blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OklahomaBill Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I'm not opposed to Floyd at all. I like him a lot but that being said I don't think he is that close to Blackmon. I think the thing that often gets over looked when talking about Blackmon is consistency. First and foremost, I'm an OSU fan so I'm 100% biased. Go look at Blackmon's game-by-game stats starting his sophomore year (when he became of starter). You won't find one bad game. He showed up every Saturday and dominated. That being said, I think Floyd would be a nice pick for the Bills at 10. He seems like as super talented prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloRebound Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Floyd definitely looks the part, but never really see the guy break a tackle or make guys miss after he catches the ball. Blackmon is much better after the catch. Also really like Kendall Wright, probably more so than Floyd. Guy is explosive and a threat to score every time he touches the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ieatcrayonz Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I like your point...if floyd turns out to be like a plax or vjax then i am all for that pick. I just dont see him being that big of a game breaker right away..and at 10 thtas what you need to get. I just cant seem to find a guy that i like at 10....All the top tier talent are picks 1-7. After that everyone is being a capable starter in the nfl i just dont see talent there to deem a top 10 pick. Even though we are stuck at 10 unless we trade down... then im all for picking up floyd, or reiff, or ingram, perry..etc... Will Goodell just make us skip our pick if nobody left is worthy of being picked at #10? How does that stuff work. Do we just not submit our card for a while like the Vikings did that one time? Who picks 8th? They are screwed even worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 I don't watch a ton of college ball anymore, but only 163 passes all year? WOW! The way that Georgia Tech offense worked. I bet if you look at passes past 3 yards, its probably 99; all season. Stephen Hill has no experience dealing with real secondary and real coverage systems. He is more than raw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The way that Georgia Tech offense worked. I bet if you look at passes past 3 yards, its probably 99; all season. Stephen Hill has no experience dealing with real secondary and real coverage systems. He is more than raw. You are correct. Hill seems like that high risk/high reward player, which more often than not = bust. With those few snaps for a pass, the learning curve for Hill is very large and the point you bring up about playing against a real secondary is very true. Evaluation of this player is on his physical attributes alone. I don't see a large enough body of work to be able to properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollars 2 donuts Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Tangentially to the above some of the debate that we have as fans of the Bills is whether they prefer size to speed. Last year they had some of the biggest wide receivers they have had, on average, for quite some time. However, they briefly revitalized Parrish's career, until his injuries, due to his speed, or more so, his ability to quickly get open. So, I guess my question is and I do not ask it rhetorically or facetiously, which of the guys available when we pick can get open the quickest? ...or as the term used to be used "has quicks." Edited March 30, 2012 by dollars 2 donuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 You are correct. Hill seems like that high risk/high reward player, which more often than not = bust. With those few snaps for a pass, the learning curve for Hill is very large and the point you bring up about playing against a real secondary is very true. Evaluation of this player is on his physical attributes alone. I don't see a large enough body of work to be able to properly. It's my opinion that all players at all positions have to almost completely start from scratch when they come to the NFL. WR are taught to use their feet differently, run routes differently, make their breaks differently, etc. If Hill does not have the ability or agility to run crisp routes, get out of his breaks, etc, his learning curve will be high of not impossible. But from what I have seen and heard and read that is not a problem for him. He does, however, have a reputation for not always catching with his hands, and that is a huge issue with me, as well as most everyone else. Yeah, you want guys with a lot of experience in a lot of games making a lot of plays. But they really have to learn all over again once they get into the pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 How many people drank in college? I'd actually be more worried if he didn't drink in college and then came into the league. And for someone to say the kid didn't get separation is about the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. The kid is the most physical wide receiver in the draft and is built with the Hines Ward type mentality with the way he uses his body to go up and get the ball and blocking. Not this argument again! How many people were arrested 3x in college for alcohol related incidents, including a DUI? How many college football players with tremendous skills almost blow their senior season by getting a DUI? The coach nearly suspended him for his entire senior season. Now, you can correctly point out that he got his stuff together and didn't get in any trouble as a senior. Maybe he has matured and become more focused. Maybe not. The question to me is whether that is a good gamble to take with the 10th pick in the entire draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 It's my opinion that all players at all positions have to almost completely start from scratch when they come to the NFL. WR are taught to use their feet differently, run routes differently, make their breaks differently, etc. If Hill does not have the ability or agility to run crisp routes, get out of his breaks, etc, his learning curve will be high of not impossible. But from what I have seen and heard and read that is not a problem for him. He does, however, have a reputation for not always catching with his hands, and that is a huge issue with me, as well as most everyone else. Yeah, you want guys with a lot of experience in a lot of games making a lot of plays. But they really have to learn all over again once they get into the pros. I agree with that to a degree, for some it is easy and others will require some work. My biggest concern about Hill is his body of work. I knew about his low catches total, which always gave me some reservation. After you posted the pass totals for the season, that really increases my concern. I think 'Why So Serious?' brings up a great point about him playing against secondaries and defenses that didn't play him straight. While he does have a big frame, good speed and good vertical; it his hard to see how well he will translate his game to the pros against secondaries and defenses that he will have to play against. I will give you the route running, footwork, breaks etc - great points and there will be some adjustment for 98% of them. When I said that the learning curve is big for him, it pertains more to how well he can play against the secondaries and against the CBs he will be facing; does he have the ability to gain separation, how easy is it for him to change his route, how well can he get off being jammed at the line, etc. He will be facing that along with the points you mentioned. I am not saying it is insurmountable, but yeah it scares the hell out of me and at #10 you shouldn't have all of those questions. He just has more work to do than the other WRs mentioned and not a large body of work to look at... I tend to follow Buddy's line of reasoning, because I find it to be true. Looking at a past body of work, if they did it before consistently; chances are they will do it again in the pros... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep2evans Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Not this argument again! How many people were arrested 3x in college for alcohol related incidents, including a DUI? How many college football players with tremendous skills almost blow their senior season by getting a DUI? The coach nearly suspended him for his entire senior season. Now, you can correctly point out that he got his stuff together and didn't get in any trouble as a senior. Maybe he has matured and become more focused. Maybe not. The question to me is whether that is a good gamble to take with the 10th pick in the entire draft. cool story. note the words in bold. if anything, they say just as much about floyd's character as the boozing incidents. kid was on the ropes, and made the necessary life adjustments to get his crap together and have a great year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) cool story. note the words in bold. if anything, they say just as much about floyd's character as the boozing incidents. kid was on the ropes, and made the necessary life adjustments to get his crap together and have a great year. Or maybe he was able to stay out of trouble for one year because he realized that millions of dollars were on the line. Will he stay out of trouble AFTER he has those millions (he will be extremely rich the minute that he signs his rookie contract)? I don't know the answer and neither do you. I agree it is encouraging that he stayed out of trouble last year, but I don't think that is a reason to completely ignore the 3 earlier issues, DUI being quite significant. My point is not to argue that he is or is not worth taking at the 10th pick. It is just to say that all of his history and potential needs to be considered. I am not a big risk-taker, so for me, I'd avoid taking the risk, but certainly other view-points are valid, too. It is a risk-reward question. Edited March 30, 2012 by OldTimer1960 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) Not this argument again! How many people were arrested 3x in college for alcohol related incidents, including a DUI? How many college football players with tremendous skills almost blow their senior season by getting a DUI? The coach nearly suspended him for his entire senior season. Now, you can correctly point out that he got his stuff together and didn't get in any trouble as a senior. Maybe he has matured and become more focused. Maybe not. The question to me is whether that is a good gamble to take with the 10th pick in the entire draft. Of those alcohol related incidents, 2 of them were underage drinking...that my friend happens all the time. If you are a student athlete, chances are you are going to a larger party on campus and not a small one which in turn causes campus security/police to notice and monitor the event a bit more closely. To entirely shy away from a player that you say has tremendous talent, because of this is unwise and you might miss out on a good player for years to come. If he had issues after taking the steps to correct his actions, then you have a good point about not taking a gamble. But that isn't the case. In all the posts I have read of yours, you say don't draft him because of it. You tend to get pissed when this "argument" comes up, but you accuse the poster you quoted about not seeing your valid concerns where as to date, your only concern over Floyd is this. You are unable to get past it or accept it or look at it in any other light other than your own. Again, I get it if it was continued behavior and he didn't make any changes. The point is is that he did. Like everyone else who went away to college in the past 2 decades, he drank underage. He was a student athlete (that doesn't make him the sharpest knife in the drawer), chances are he went to fairly big events and got caught drinking underage twice. Did he make a big mistake with the DUI, yes; but, I am willing to gamble and say that many posters on this board will even freely admit they have driven when they shouldn't have. I am sure other student athletes in the draft have done the same thing. To me it is a non issue. Is there some concern there, yeah; but the kid did the right thing. To "punish" him our ourselves by not looking at a tremendous player for this is foolish... Edit: I am sorry if I was a bit harsh. I am just sick of seeing the alcohol points being brought up as a reason to exclude this player from being drafted. I get it if he still had issues, this is something that hopefully the team took care of in an interview with the kid or his coaches. Also on the team we have now, I don't see him having an issue with partying... Edited March 30, 2012 by reed83 4th Rounder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimer1960 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Of those alcohol related incidents, 2 of them were underage drinking...that my friend happens all the time. If you are a student athlete, chances are you are going to a larger party on campus and not a small one which in turn causes campus security/police to notice and monitor the event a bit more closely. To entirely shy away from a player that you say has tremendous talent, because of this is unwise and you might miss out on a good player for years to come. If he had issues after taking the steps to correct his actions, then you have a good point about not taking a gamble. But that isn't the case. In all the posts I have read of yours, you say don't draft him because of it. You tend to get pissed when this "argument" comes up, but you accuse the poster you quoted about not seeing your valid concerns where as to date, your only concern over Floyd is this. You are unable to get past it or accept it or look at it in any other light other than your own. Again, I get it if it was continued behavior and he didn't make any changes. The point is is that he did. Like everyone else who went away to college in the past 2 decades, he drank underage. He was a student athlete (that doesn't make him the sharpest knife in the drawer), chances are he went to fairly big events and got caught drinking underage twice. Did he make a big mistake with the DUI, yes; but, I am willing to gamble and say that many posters on this board will even freely admit they have driven when they shouldn't have. I am sure other student athletes in the draft have done the same thing. To me it is a non issue. Is there some concern there, yeah; but the kid did the right thing. To "punish" him our ourselves by not looking at a tremendous player for this is foolish... I get your points and I agree to some extent. I am reacting to the "it's no big deal at all - nothing to consider" point of view. It IS something to consider. Each team must make their own assessment of the risk and his talent level. Each will determine at what point in the draft his talent outweighs the risks with him - and that, of course, depends on how big of a risk any team sees it as (as well as how great they see his talent) . I do suspect that there is more to it than 2 under-age drinking arrests. While I don't have any better true knowledge of the situation that you do, I have to wonder if police really went into a party and saw star football player Michael Floyd peacefully having a beer and decided to arrest him - twice. Now, maybe it happened that way and, if so, you are right that those are not great cause for concern to me. However, I wonder if there wasn't maybe more to it than that. I haven't been on a college campus or at a college house party in > 20 years - do police regularly bust those and arrest every under-age drinker there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I get your points and I agree to some extent. I am reacting to the "it's no big deal at all - nothing to consider" point of view. It IS something to consider. Each team must make their own assessment of the risk and his talent level. Each will determine at what point in the draft his talent outweighs the risks with him - and that, of course, depends on how big of a risk any team sees it as (as well as how great they see his talent) . I do suspect that there is more to it than 2 under-age drinking arrests. While I don't have any better true knowledge of the situation that you do, I have to wonder if police really went into a party and saw star football player Michael Floyd peacefully having a beer and decided to arrest him - twice. Now, maybe it happened that way and, if so, you are right that those are not great cause for concern to me. However, I wonder if there wasn't maybe more to it than that. I haven't been on a college campus or at a college house party in > 20 years - do police regularly bust those and arrest every under-age drinker there? You do bring up a few good points/questions here as well. I'm sure he wasn't be stalked or staked out and it is impossible to know the entire circumstances, best I can do is look back into my college life and what I saw: Back in the 90's when I was in college, the police and firemen came and broke up a few of the larger house parties due to over occupation caused by excessive noise...Kids that looked underage were getting carded by the police, especially the ones who were bombed; and they were very watchful as to who was driving away as well... I would say that if Floyd went to a school like Miami, chances are this would have slid. A catholic school like ND, IDK if the kids would get as much slack...he also for all we know been given a bunch of warnings prior and he chose to ignore them - which most underage kids who just got to college tend to do...Not trying to make excuses either...just trying to remain somewhat objective and understanding...for all I know the kid could be an !@#$ and there is much more than we know I just hope they check him out and if he is the BPA at 10, we can make a good choice to select or not select him and yeah this stuff needs to be looked at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverOutNick Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 I've been on board with the Floyd pick since the draft order was set. Minus his off the field stuff( he's exactly what this team needs. Floyd, kuechly, Gilmore minus Kirkpatrick please. exactly...if we don't trade down for someone like Glenn or up for Kalil/Blackmon I totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 If anyone has concerns about Floyd...read this article AP article on Floyd "“This is why I coach,” Irish coach Brian Kelly said this week. “To see a young man change the course of his life, and see that on a day-to-day basis, it’s probably as rewarding as any singular victory. And that’s what Michael Floyd has done. And that feels good as a coach that you can see a young man who is in a good place. He wasn’t in such a good place, but now he is, and that’s important.”" "“Mike had every excuse to want to blame someone else. `This happened because of this, and that because of this, so I’m going to react this way,”’ Irish receivers coach Tony Alford said. “He did none of the above. He took complete ownership of every single thing. He’s grown as a man. That’s the biggest thing. He has really, really matured as a young man and that shows in his everyday life. “We all knew he could play. Everybody knows that,” Alford added. “But when you watch the growth and the maturation he’s had, it’s very gratifying to be able to witness that every day.”" “He’s a special player,” Boston College linebacker Luke Kuechly said. “He’s big, he’s strong and he’s fast. Anytime you get a guy like that he’s dangerous. … We’ve got to do a good job of banging him, getting into his routes and disrupting him. If you let a guy like this run free he’s going to pick you apart.” "“It makes me feel great just knowing that people notice that I am making a big change in my life. I am maturing and becoming a man,” Floyd said Wednesday. “And the experiences I went through, it made me feel better about myself that I needed to change. I feel that I came out as a better person.”" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrobot Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 The Raiders received a 3rd round compensatory pick but Al Davis is no longer around so Hill may no longer be their type of pick. Not the Raiders, but we have it that the 49ers, Ravens and Titans, in addition to the Browns, are interested in Hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhitewalkerInPhilly Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 A quick word on the "character" thing, since it seems to be cropping up a lot. Look, I'm not perfect. Far from perfect. When I went away to school after being the good son for many years, I did my share of drinking, and making the mistakes that come with it. Now that I'm out I can say that I'm a mostly responsible adult and if people slammed me for every time I made a mistake I would likely be homeless by now. Can he play, and stay out of jail? That is the only question I ask of Floyd. Now, whether a WR is the best choice for a first round draft pick is another question entirely, but I'm not going to write the guy off because he got caught drinking in college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornellBillsFan Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 why isn't alshon jeffery in any of these discussions? and i'm on the record as being anti-floyd. Because he isn't that fast and likes to get fat in the offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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