Doc Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Mark Anderson's contract specifics: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/mark-anderson/ How it looks from the cash to cap perspective: 2012: $6 million (signing bonus) + $2 million (base salary + workout bonus) = $8 million 2013: $1.5 million (option bonus) + $2.5 million (base salary + workout bonus) = $4 million 2014: $4 million (base salary + workout bonus) = $4 million 2015: $5 million (base salary + workout bonus) = $5 million The deal was reported as a 4 year, $27.5 million, but if you look at the above it actually appears to be 4 years for $21 million. The $6.5 million unccounted for is probably incentive based stipulations. This deal makes me feel a bit btter than the original numbers reported. $5.25 million per is still too much, but it's a hell of a lot better than over $7 million per. If he's a producer his cash to cap doesn't look to bad in years 2-4 and the cap will be much higher in those years, thus further softening the blow of his numbers. Why are you worried about the numbers? They are still well below the cap, and it's apparent that they're willing to spend money on players. Not to mention the cap is expected to jump in 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 $5.25 million per is still too much, but it's a hell of a lot better than over $7 million per. If he's a producer his cash to cap doesn't look to bad in years 2-4 and the cap will be much higher in those years, thus further softening the blow of his numbers. If Spotrac is correct with those numbers, that definitely looks a lot better. Why are you worried about the numbers? They are still well below the cap, and it's apparent that they're willing to spend money on players. Not to mention the cap is expected to jump in 2014. Because it's extremely important to get fair value. You shouldn't overspend on a player just because you are under the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 If Spotrac is correct with those numbers, that definitely looks a lot better. Because it's extremely important to get fair value. You shouldn't overspend on a player just because you are under the cap. The fact of the matter is that the Bills need to overpay to get players. If they felt that Anderson was a guy they needed to have, so be it. But to know whether they overspent, and by how much, you need to know what the other teams were offering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 The fact of the matter is that the Bills need to overpay to get players. If they felt that Anderson was a guy they needed to have, so be it. But to know whether they overspent, and by how much, you need to know what the other teams were offering. Well, I was just answering your question. And I don't need to see other offers to know that $7M/yr is too much for a situational pass rusher. Now if he can turn into a high production every-down player, then it may be worth it. But he has yet to do that in a 7-year career with 3 different teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 If Spotrac is correct with those numbers, that definitely looks a lot better. Because it's extremely important to get fair value. You shouldn't overspend on a player just because you are under the cap. You do when your Buffalo and trying to get good players to come here..... Some folks just dont get it....we can either overspend a tead and try to biuld a winning team that free agents will like in future years or we can continue to haggle over money (that was not being spent on this team and should have been for YEARS) and continue to have 10th overall picks and watch the playoffs from home...... Who cares if they overspent a little bit at this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills of Boston Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 You do when your Buffalo and trying to get good players to come here..... Some folks just dont get it....we can either overspend a tead and try to biuld a winning team that free agents will like in future years or we can continue to haggle over money (that was not being spent on this team and should have been for YEARS) and continue to have 10th overall picks and watch the playoffs from home...... Who cares if they overspent a little bit at this point? There isnt one word in this I would change. And IMO everyone should be on board with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 You do when your Buffalo and trying to get good players to come here..... Some folks just dont get it....we can either overspend a tead and try to biuld a winning team that free agents will like in future years or we can continue to haggle over money (that was not being spent on this team and should have been for YEARS) and continue to have 10th overall picks and watch the playoffs from home...... Who cares if they overspent a little bit at this point? Well put, John. Not to mention that on every team of 50 odd players, basically one third are overpaid, one third are fairly paid, and one third are underpaid. And if not that many, at the very least, there are several players who are underpaid or overpaid each year. It's also extremely difficult to gauge worth. Mario Williams was the superstar attraction and signing, and clearly a better player. But if Mark Anderson is the guy who takes a very good defense over the hump to become a dominating defense, he will be underpaid even at 21-25 million. Worth as a player can never be determined at the signing, it can really only be determined in retrospect, and it often changes year to year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 There isnt one word in this I would change. And IMO everyone should be on board with this. I would change the word "tead" because I don't even know what that means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Well, I was just answering your question. And I don't need to see other offers to know that $7M/yr is too much for a situational pass rusher. Now if he can turn into a high production every-down player, then it may be worth it. But he has yet to do that in a 7-year career with 3 different teams. Gailey doesn't view Anderson as a situational player. He'll probably be used like he and Andre Carter were last year, i.e. at RDE with Anderson getting the majority of snaps and Merriman rotating with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 You do when your Buffalo and trying to get good players to come here..... Some folks just dont get it....we can either overspend a tead and try to biuld a winning team that free agents will like in future years or we can continue to haggle over money (that was not being spent on this team and should have been for YEARS) and continue to have 10th overall picks and watch the playoffs from home...... Who cares if they overspent a little bit at this point? Oh I get it. I get it completely. Do you? We played the "overspend a tad and try to build a winning team that free agents will like in future years" card with Mario. For the record I think that was an excellent signing. I also think you were trying to write "tad", and we will have to disagree on just how much a "tad" is. But we don't have to do that with every player going forward, especially not a situational (or rotational) player. And let's be honest, he was a situational player last season and his rookie season - his 2 most productive years. The 5 years in between when he played every down yielded some pretty bland results. I understand that the fan base is frustrated, but the team still needs to spend wisely. Which teams in the league are notorious for overspending? The Redskins, Raiders, and Cowboys. How far did that get them the last decade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D521646 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Williams was going to make close to what we gave him anyway, so why not sign him? If Anderson can be a two or three down player (Probably two in Chix system)aqnd contribute with 10+ sacks each year, he is NOT overpaid, and I would say probably underpaid compared to other DE's in this league that average 10 or more sacks a year. Tim- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I would change the word "tead" because I don't even know what that means. That would be a good play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Oh I get it. I get it completely. Do you? We played the "overspend a tad and try to build a winning team that free agents will like in future years" card with Mario. For the record I think that was an excellent signing. I also think you were trying to write "tad", and we will have to disagree on just how much a "tad" is. But we don't have to do that with every player going forward, especially not a situational (or rotational) player. And let's be honest, he was a situational player last season and his rookie season - his 2 most productive years. The 5 years in between when he played every down yielded some pretty bland results. I understand that the fan base is frustrated, but the team still needs to spend wisely. Which teams in the league are notorious for overspending? The Redskins, Raiders, and Cowboys. How far did that get them the last decade? - The bills also resigned their own players at some pretty fair deals to go along with these two expensive free agents - The bills also let a speed WR walk because he wasn't worth what he got from San Diego (a situation you conveniently left out of this convo) - It looks like the bills didnt spend much LAST year...rolled it over into THIS year....and set up contracts so that they go up when there is more money in the upcoming years to support them. I see no problem with how the bills handled their free agents.... Mario was going to get that money WHEREVER he went.....more then likely his signing on this team caused us to sway Anderson Anderson was going to get that money (or close to it) WHEREVER he went....and he brings not only his 10 sacks and definate need to this team he also brings a year of playing with the patriots.....which is also going to help us a bit Any particular reason you chose to go after my spelling other then you have a crappy argument? I would change the word "tead" because I don't even know what that means. It means that my finger got a little fat and hit the "E" by accident. Spelling police.....really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Williams was going to make close to what we gave him anyway, so why not sign him? If Anderson can be a two or three down player (Probably two in Chix system)aqnd contribute with 10+ sacks each year, he is NOT overpaid, and I would say probably underpaid compared to other DE's in this league that average 10 or more sacks a year. Tim- he probably came to Buffalo because it is the perfect situation for him. Kelsay plays run downs he plays passing downs. maybe Anderson realizes what he does best too. He loves to rush the passer, not so great against the run. With the Bills he gets to do what he is good at. If he gets 25 snaps a game, and is able to apply presure on the qb it is money well spent. It also gives the Bills less positions to worry about during the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 It means that my finger got a little fat and hit the "E" by accident. Spelling police.....really? Easy, John...just having a little fun here. That's what we're supposed to be doing, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 he probably came to Buffalo because it is the perfect situation for him. Kelsay plays run downs he plays passing downs. maybe Anderson realizes what he does best too. He loves to rush the passer, not so great against the run. With the Bills he gets to do what he is good at. If he gets 25 snaps a game, and is able to apply presure on the qb it is money well spent. It also gives the Bills less positions to worry about during the draft. imo I am actually seeing a rotation of Super Mario/Kelsay Anderson/Merriman Still pretty damn good no matter how you slice it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1B4IDie Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 (edited) - The bills also resigned their own players at some pretty fair deals to go along with these two expensive free agents - The bills also let a speed WR walk because he wasn't worth what he got from San Diego (a situation you conveniently left out of this convo) - It looks like the bills didnt spend much LAST year...rolled it over into THIS year....and set up contracts so that they go up when there is more money in the upcoming years to support them. I see no problem with how the bills handled their free agents.... Mario was going to get that money WHEREVER he went.....more then likely his signing on this team caused us to sway Anderson Anderson was going to get that money (or close to it) WHEREVER he went....and he brings not only his 10 sacks and definate need to this team he also brings a year of playing with the patriots.....which is also going to help us a bit Any particular reason you chose to go after my spelling other then you have a crappy argument? It means that my finger got a little fat and hit the "E" by accident. Spelling police.....really? John is right on but what is even better, is that Stevie and Anderson's contract actually do not go up over time. They're actually front loaded contracts. Meaning when the Cap goes up, they'll have tons of room. SJ, and Anderson's cap hit in 2015 is tiny. I didn't see the exact details on Mario's contract though. Chandler's was small as well. So the good news. Is the Bills signed their own key free agents and brought top tier pass rushing talent and didn't paint themselves in a cap corner the future. In 2012 they come into an offense where 8/11 starters are returning, the offense system has a chance to build on what they started. (Basically RT and LT and the second flanker are the ?s around starters and the RT may actually returning as well depending on what happens in pre season.) The defensive pass rusher, which was one of the worst in the league. People talk about the only 29 sacks in 2011, but 10 of the sacks came agains the DEADskins, so the sack and pressure was horrible through 15 games. The team on paper has addresses the Pass Rush. We all know the result of a better D-Line has on the LBs and secondary. They have more freedom to cover and play the run. So you can nit pic and throw stones at Buddy but he has done a phenomenal job in the 2012 offseason. If we have a Floyd or Mike Adams 1st round pick and a Bobby Wagner / Vinny Curry / Sanu / Jeffrey / Sanders 2nd round it gets even better. Then Give a much deserved extension to Levitre an extension for Wood and a deserved but from a business perspective unnecessary extension to FJax (they could just use him in 2012 then dump him, thats what the Patriots would do but I bet Buddy throws FJax a bone with a nice signing bonus on a **wink**wink** multi year extension) then it gets even more bitterer. People, All is good in Buffalo Bills land, lets enjoy the first great offseason in a freaking generation. Edited March 26, 2012 by Why So Serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 Easy, John...just having a little fun here. That's what we're supposed to be doing, right? Sorry Eball....this diet is making me a real Biaaach right now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QCity Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I'm just going to respond to this, because everything else you typed seems to be some sort of bizarre strawman argument. Maybe you need to reread what I wrote, because I have no problem with any of our other offseason moves, and maybe not even this one if those $21M contract details are correct. Anderson was going to get that money (or close to it) WHEREVER he went....and he brings not only his 10 sacks and definate need to this team he also brings a year of playing with the patriots.....which is also going to help us a bit Anderson was not going to get that money wherever he went, you're delusional if you think so. While it's nice to imagine that he wanted to come here to play on a line with Williams/Dareus/Williams, the simple truth is that he was going to go wherever they paid him the most. He's not trying to boost his stats and cash-in on his next contract when he's 33 (lol). This was his big contract payday, and we offered the most. And let's talk about that year with the Patriots, or should I say a year of situational play under the best defensive coach in the game on a team that often forced other teams into a desperation-passing mode. I hope the guy does do well - I hope he gets 20 sacks next year. But TBH, I think any average DE we put on the end of that line could get 8-9 sacks next year. If you take a level-headed look at the guy's entire career and the situation he was in last year - it's hard not to think we paid just a tad too much for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 I just want to say that is a real pleasure to converse with a fan who knows exactly what the other teams were offering....kudos on that.... Your you complaint is that your afraid that the bills are overspending on players.......but you only want to talk about the ONE contract given out this offseason that even falls into that catagory? In past offseasons the very best we could have hoped for was a free agent LIKE Anderson and would probably watch key guys we drafted leave for greener pastures....this year the bills put their money where there mouth is....yet did it in a way that is still a managable cap number by the bills......but still you B word Some people are never happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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