Trayvon Martin Case

[outsidethebox]

my Heritage is English and Scotch German which makes me about as white as you can get (disregarding 1/64th or 1/128th of Redskin blood my grandfather shamefully confessed on his death bed) and I think GZ's account of things is rife with inconsistencies.

Don't you think your account of the events would be a little inconsistent if it was your head being pounded against a cement side walk? I think his story has been pretty consistent. I also think the evidence for the most part is pretty consistent with his story.

[Rob's House]

I like how personal some people in this thread are getting with the prosecution. It is as if you cannot understand people have jobs.

 

I have mixed feelings on the prosecutor. I'm not sure how I would handle being in his position. To send a man to prison for decades on a hunch is pretty despicable. Of course, he may well have to balance George Zimmerman's freedom against his own livelihood. It's not an enviable position for one with a conscience.

 

My thoughts regarding his culpability concern how much pressure he's under to prosecute this case and by who, whether he had any choice in the matter, whether he's looking to preserve or bolster his career, and I'm also curious if he's throwing the case just to satisfy the public outcry for a trial without trying to convict a man who is probably innocent.

 

But talking about iced tea and skittles is a jerk off move, plain and simple. And he whines like a B word.

 

Is it his job to outright lie to try and get a conviction? I presume you are originally from Buffalo, or at least close by. Do you remember "The Coach" on WGR? That was his demeanor throughout closing arguments.

 

Unlike the defense attorney, a prosecutor has no client to zealously advocate. His job is to seek justice, not secure convictions - although in practice that's not necessarily the case.

[DC Tom]

I have mixed feelings on the prosecutor. I'm not sure how I would handle being in his position. To send a man to prison for decades on a hunch is pretty despicable. Of course, he may well have to balance George Zimmerman's freedom against his own livelihood. It's not an enviable position for one with a conscience.

 

Lawyer with a conscience. Good one...

[outsidethebox]

 

 

yet amazingly enough, many of the observations that myself, and a few other fellow TBD patrons have touched on in this thread,

 

are being brought up in the states closing

Does that make it true?

 

[Rob's House]

yet amazingly enough, many of the observations that myself, and a few other fellow TBD patrons have touched on in this thread,

 

are being brought up in the states closing

 

Dude, skittles and tea came up in the state's closing. nuff said.

 

I'll stick to my original prediction, Zimmerman will be convicted of manslaughter (in my opinion)

 

This might be the one thing you're right about. And if you are it will be a miscarriage of justice.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Rob's House

[TakeYouToTasker]

yet amazingly enough, many of the observations that myself, and a few other fellow TBD patrons have touched on in this thread,

 

are being brought up in the states closing

Which is why everyone who understands how the American legal system works thinks the prosecution has presented a terrible case.

[dayman]

I have mixed feelings on the prosecutor. I'm not sure how I would handle being in his position. To send a man to prison for decades on a hunch is pretty despicable. Of course, he may well have to balance George Zimmerman's freedom against his own livelihood. It's not an enviable position for one with a conscience.

 

My thoughts regarding his culpability concern how much pressure he's under to prosecute this case and by who, whether he had any choice in the matter, whether he's looking to preserve or bolster his career, and I'm also curious if he's throwing the case just to satisfy the public outcry for a trial without trying to convict a man who is probably innocent.

 

But talking about iced tea and skittles is a jerk off move, plain and simple. And he whines like a B word.

 

 

 

Unlike the defense attorney, a prosecutor has no client to zealously advocate. His job is to seek justice, not secure convictions - although in practice that's not necessarily the case.

 

Prosecution has victims to zealously advocate justice for. And say what you want about how he approached the case, but he's doing what he thinks will impact the jury the most to win the case. Get off his back personally and stop acting like he's supposed to make the call in this case and somehow not have the heart to prosecute it b/c he's responsible for Zimmermans freedom. He's not.

[Rob's House]

Prosecution has victims to zealously advocate justice for. And say what you want about how he approached the case, but he's doing what he thinks will impact the jury the most to win the case. Get off his back personally and stop acting like he's supposed to make the call in this case and somehow not have the heart to prosecute it b/c he's responsible for Zimmermans freedom. He's not.

 

bull ****.

 

The prosecutor's concern is not that of winning or losing cases, it's seeking justice. Advocating for "victims" goes only to the extent that such is in the interest of justice. And I've not been on this mother!@#$er's back; I think I've mentioned him once in a post that said he's in a tight spot. Doing whatever will impact the jury to impact his case is only ethical if he actually believes the evidence supports conviction, which in this case he knows it does not.

[dayman]

bull ****.

 

The prosecutor's concern is not that of winning or losing cases, it's seeking justice. Advocating for "victims" goes only to the extent that such is in the interest of justice. And I've not been on this mother!@#$er's back; I think I've mentioned him once in a post that said he's in a tight spot. Doing whatever will impact the jury to impact his case is only ethical if he actually believes the evidence supports conviction, which in this case he knows it does not.

 

First of all you do not know that, at all. Secondly, his job is to try this case. If you don't think Zimmerman is guilty that's fine, he's out there prosecuting the case. And regardless of everyone's opinion in this thread, the case is an actual case. Not a strong one, but not the complete unbelievable joke that everyone makes it out to be.

[Rob's House]

First of all you do not know that, at all. Secondly, his job is to try this case. If you don't think Zimmerman is guilty that's fine, he's out there prosecuting the case. And regardless of everyone's opinion in this thread, the case is an actual case. Not a strong one, but not the complete unbelievable joke that everyone makes it out to be.

 

I do know it. We've heard the evidence and the evidence is ****. Everyone in the legal community knows it. The prosecutor knows it. There's a reason charges were never filed to begin with - there is no case and he shouldn't be prosecuting it in the first place. This shouldn't even make it to the jury, but this is a show trial, the prosecutor and judge know what's expected of them, and are acquiescing to the pressures. Again, the prosecutor's job is not to win cases, it's to seek justice.

Berger v. United States, 295 U.S. 78, 88, 55 S. Ct. 629, 633, 79 L. Ed. 1314 (1935).

.

[dayman]

I do know it. We've heard the evidence and the evidence is ****. Everyone in the legal community knows it. The prosecutor knows it. There's a reason charges were never filed to begin with - there is no case and he shouldn't be prosecuting it in the first place. This shouldn't even make it to the jury, but this is a show trial, the prosecutor and judge know what's expected of them, and are acquiescing to the pressures. Again, the prosecutor's job is not to win cases, it's to seek justice.

Berger v. United States, 295 U.S. 78, 88, 55 S. Ct. 629, 633, 79 L. Ed. 1314 (1935).

.

 

This is a case. If you can't see it, then you have been sucked into the counter hype to the original hype. It's not a great case, it is a real case. He's out there prosecuting, b/c he's a prosecutor.

[Koko78]

Again, the prosecutor's job is not to win cases, it's to seek justice.

Berger v. United States, 295 U.S. 78, 88, 55 S. Ct. 629, 633, 79 L. Ed. 1314 (1935).

 

Too bad many prosecutors don't remember that.

[boyst]

Jboyst, you are forgetting one very important fact. TM is just a lil child, GZ is a racist wanna be cop.

 

Seriously though, nothing about this trial makes sense. The DA made the case based on emotions. Poor little Travon. I am starting to believe the way blacks and whites actually think and analyze are miles apart.

holy crap, I thought I had posted a convo from work today - and this reminded me I did not.

 

Talking with urban black dude, younger aged. He stated that GZ brought this on himself and should be guilty of killing Trayvon. He did not know all the differences in charges but said that it was GZ who brought it on himself because he should not have put himself in a situation where he could not defend himself. Literally, that is what the guy said - a situation where he could not defend himself. I inquired more, you see, this guy believes that it was bullcrap GZ took the coward way out and used a gun just because he was getting beat up. He should not have been anywhere near the guy if he can't fight - if you are following a guy or even looking at a guy you should realize you may get your ass beat, was basically his description.

 

When I asked why using a gun to defend yourself is not acceptable he said that you can't just pull a gun because you are a pansy. You just take the ass beating you deserved. A fat guy like that - you can look at him and tell he is soft. The pansy got beat up and could not take it. It was not a race thing, he said. It was just some dumbass in the wrong place who don't know the rules of the street and started to lose the game.

[Rob's House]

This is a case. If you can't see it, then you have been sucked into the counter hype to the original hype. It's not a great case, it is a real case. He's out there prosecuting, b/c he's a prosecutor.

 

Show me the evidence that supports even a probable cause finding for any of the charges he's prosecuting and I'll concede. Thus far I've yet to see it.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Rob's House

[Rob's House]

Too bad many prosecutors don't remember that.

 

That's the damn truth. Half the time (I exaggerate) I think the prosecutors are worse than the people they're prosecuting. Families are turned upside down unnecessarily with great regularity because an overzealous prosecutor is either trying to make a name or trying to impose his (or more often her) own twisted sense of morality.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Rob's House

[DC Tom]

That's the damn truth. Half the time (I exaggerate) I think the prosecutors are worse than the people they're prosecuting. Families are turned upside down unnecessarily with great regularity because an overzealous prosecutor is either trying to make a name or trying to impose his (or more often her) own twisted sense of morality.

 

I take it you don't work anywhere near family services then, do you?

[Rob's House]

I take it you don't work anywhere near family services then, do you?

 

Not right now. I'll actually be working with prosecutors for the juvenile system next semester, so I'll have more exposure. I'm referring to adult criminal where, for example, they'll take the bread winner of the family, hold him without bond for weeks or months on end for an overcharged crime, without the slightest regard for the wife and kids at home trying to make ends meet. It's pretty !@#$ed up sometimes.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Rob's House

[....lybob]

holy crap, I thought I had posted a convo from work today - and this reminded me I did not.

 

Talking with urban black dude, younger aged. He stated that GZ brought this on himself and should be guilty of killing Trayvon. He did not know all the differences in charges but said that it was GZ who brought it on himself because he should not have put himself in a situation where he could not defend himself. Literally, that is what the guy said - a situation where he could not defend himself. I inquired more, you see, this guy believes that it was bullcrap GZ took the coward way out and used a gun just because he was getting beat up. He should not have been anywhere near the guy if he can't fight - if you are following a guy or even looking at a guy you should realize you may get your ass beat, was basically his description.

 

When I asked why using a gun to defend yourself is not acceptable he said that you can't just pull a gun because you are a pansy. You just take the ass beating you deserved. A fat guy like that - you can look at him and tell he is soft. The pansy got beat up and could not take it. It was not a race thing, he said. It was just some dumbass in the wrong place who don't know the rules of the street and started to lose the game.

Maybe that's my problem , I'm a few inches taller than GZ and at 28 somewhere between 185lbs and 195lbs so about the same weight as GZ and I just can imagine my 28 y/o ass getting kicked like that byTM, maybe now in my mid fifties bad back and heart problems I'd be in trouble but at 28 no !@#$ing way- I don't know but it seems to me that a lot of people here either have never been in a serious fight or think blacks are masters of getto-fu or have superhuman hip-hop strength.

[DC Tom]

Not right now. I'll actually be working with prosecutors for the juvenile system next semester, so I'll have more exposure. I'm referring to adult criminal where, for example, they'll take the breadwinner of the family, hold him without bond for weeks or months on end for an overcharged crime, without the slightest regard for the wife and kids at home trying to make ends meet. It's pretty !@#$ed up sometimes.

 

When you do, you might see that "half the time" is an understatement. My sister worked with family services in New Jersey, mostly as a representative for the child or families accused. From what she's said, it sounds like a damn horror show. My sister had a case where someone had their kids taken away because of injury due to hospital negligence, they successfully sued the hospital (for seven figures) for damages, but STILL can't get their kids back because the accusation somehow puts their kids "at risk". The immediate presumption of guilt, and near impossibility fighting the accusation, inherent in THAT system makes the Zimmerman trial look downright fair.

 

The State faced a big up hill battle and in my opinion never had much of a chance for a 2nd degree murder conviction.

 

 

By going for a 2nd degree murder conviction I do however believe it helped increase the chance for a manslaughter conviction.

 

The only reason the state faced an "uphill battle" is because there was no case for murder 2 to begin with. That's like saying a man faces an "uphill battle" in carrying a baby full-term.

 

And any effect the state may have had on a manslaughter charge is bound to be negative - generally, looking like a complete idiot and floundering around with specious, foolish arguments does not win arguments. You ought to know that first hand by now.

 

Maybe that's my problem , I'm a few inches taller than GZ and at 28 somewhere between 185lbs and 195lbs so about the same weight as GZ and I just can imagine my 28 y/o ass getting kicked like that byTM, maybe now in my mid fifties bad back and heart problems I'd be in trouble but at 28 no !@#$ing way- I don't know but it seems to me that a lot of people here either have never been in a serious fight or think blacks are masters of getto-fu or have superhuman hip-hop strength.

 

If you can't imagine your ass getting kicked, you've never been in a serious fight.

[B-Man]

 

'Crackers,' a 'teenage mammy' -- the sorry truth about race and Zimmerman trial

By Juan Williams

 

"White Hispanics," "Creepy-Ass Crackers," "Teenage Mammies," and "Suspicious A--holes who always get away" -- that is the vernacular of the George Zimmerman trial.

 

George Zimmerman faces life in jail as a jury considers second-degree murder charges against him for killing 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. But thanks to the media he is already sentenced to life in the American public's mind as a racist.

 

NBC edited a tape of Zimmerman’s call to police as he was following Martin to make him appear to be focused on Martin’s race.

 

The New York Times has referred to him in unique racial terms as a “white Hispanic." The terminology was necessary to have the story fit into a well-worn news narrative throughout American history from the Scottsboro Boys to Emmett Till to Rodney King – the black victim of white racism. Hispanic people can be as racist as black or white people in a country with a deep history of racism. But, apparently for the Times, Zimmerman's whiteness was important. It fit their good versus evil tale of a white racist killing an innocent black man.

 

In June, before the trial started, a CNN poll asked Americans if they believed the murder charges against Zimmerman were true or false. Without any courtroom testimony or evidence, but based on the racially charged media coverage, 62 percent of Americans said the charges were “probably true” or “definitely true.”

 

My bet is that poll would have different results today. The trial has failed to prove Zimmerman acted with a “depraved mind” – as required for a second-degree murder conviction – or even with a racist mind. He certainly killed Martin. And the jury may decide he is guilty of second-degree murder or manslaughter. But what we heard in the courtroom fits with an FBI report that found race was not a factor in Martin’s shooting death.

 

The strong public judgment of Zimmerman’s guilt in the poll reflected a racially weighted media telling of the story. Photos of a bloodied Zimmerman after the incident, Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense and the police decision not to charge Zimmerman all got a dismissive glance from the press and contributed to public assumptions about Zimmerman before the trial.

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.c.../#ixzz2YnALvUN2