Rob's House Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Who is Manning's kicker...? During the period in question it was Vanderjacht (sp?) who was great during the regular season but missed several would be game winning field goals Peyton Manning got him into position to kick. He has a lot to do with Peyton's mediocre playoff record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 My condolences on the loss, WEO. Glad to see that you weren't rioting at UMass. Awwww, someone is all burned up because their beloved team lost yet another super bowl. See what I mean? Nope, I had a thousand on the Giants suckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The Pats were a couple of freaky plays away from an unbeaten season just four years ago. And without Welker's drop or Brady's boneheaded intentional grounding, they might very well have won Sunday's game. So it's kind of hard to get my head around the tone of some of the criticism around here that seems to come down to "the Patriots are a shadow of their former selves." My fellow dudes and dudettes, we can only hope and pray the Bills "deteriorate" to that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The Pats were a couple of freaky plays away from an unbeaten season just four years ago. And without Welker's drop or Brady's boneheaded intentional grounding, they might very well have won Sunday's game. So it's kind of hard to get my head around the tone of some of the criticism around here that seems to come down to "the Patriots are a shadow of their former selves." My fellow dudes and dudettes, we can only hope and pray the Bills "deteriorate" to that level. You can say the same thing about the Bills in SB25. Most close SB games turn on a few plays. But the scoreboard still says you suck. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The Pats were a couple of freaky plays away from an unbeaten season just four years ago. And without Welker's drop or Brady's boneheaded intentional grounding, they might very well have won Sunday's game. So it's kind of hard to get my head around the tone of some of the criticism around here that seems to come down to "the Patriots are a shadow of their former selves." My fellow dudes and dudettes, we can only hope and pray the Bills "deteriorate" to that level. they were pretty damn close to losing at home to Joe Flacco and the Ravens in the post-season (again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Angel Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What I've learned about Pats performances in Super Bowls: it pretty much always comes down to the last minute. At that point, it's 50-50. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn't read too much into it. The record is more or less irrelevant when measured against this basic fact. A couple of freaky plays by the Giants (Bradshaw's fumble being recovered by the G-Men; the Tyree catch) put them over the top; a couple of games in which their opponents didn't make such plays at the end (or in which the Pats had the ball last with a tie). The spygate stuff is completely and wildly overblown. I remember Jimmy Johnson saying that every team tried to look for the same sort of edge before every big game. The coaches would do whatever it took. I know the spygate plays perfectly into the good guy/bad guy narrative, but come on. Since Spygate, the Pats are 64-16 in the regular season. I mean, take off the blinders and give 'em their due. Did Jimmy Johnson say that because every team did it or to keep the league from getting a black eye, he never said he did it or gave an example of who did it?? A championship team is caught cheating is being overblown? If there games come down to the last minute, would they have gotten those extra yards to set up Vinettiari without those tapes? You're Giants statement is irrelevant as the Giant Superbowl's where both after spygate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The Pats were a couple of freaky plays away from an unbeaten season just four years ago. And without Welker's drop or Brady's boneheaded intentional grounding, they might very well have won Sunday's game. So it's kind of hard to get my head around the tone of some of the criticism around here that seems to come down to "the Patriots are a shadow of their former selves." My fellow dudes and dudettes, we can only hope and pray the Bills "deteriorate" to that level. The Pats were a couple of freak plays away from not even making it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) The Pats were a couple of freak plays away from not even making it at all. When a season is made or broken on a few plays, how valuable does a little extra info become? PTR Edited February 7, 2012 by PromoTheRobot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 They did it because it worked, even when told to stop they kept doing it. They did it because it was a big help - no one takes steroids for the side effects they take them because it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattM Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Go back and watch (if you still can) the HBO "Inside the Lines" on Matt Walsh. In that HBO quotes (directly) a so-called "former offensive star" on those early 2000 Pats* teams as saying "Of course it helped us, it helped us immensely. We knew what the defense was bringing about 70-80% of the time" or something very similar. Personally, I suspect said player was Antowain Smith, but could obviously be wrong. It may still be available on HBO Go! or HBO on Demand if you have it. I watched it on DVR 3-4 times to make sure I was hearing them right and to do this day, can't understand why more wasn't made of that at the time, as it struck me as a very damaging quote to all the naysayers and apologists. As I noted in another thread last night, anyone else remember the Eagles SB win and how the Pats* seemed to check down into a screen every time the Eagles brought a blitz, as if they knew the blitz was coming? Recalling that after several Eagle defenders from that team stood up during Spygate and said they believed the cheating influenced that game about cinched my views on the issue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Before Spygate, Belichick's Patriots were 12-2 in the playoffs and 3-0 in the Super Bowl. Since the illegal taping scheme was revealed, they are 4-4 in the postseason and 0-2 in the Super Bowl. But it was no help at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Do you have link to winning 3 superbowls was "obviously" obtained by cheating? I am no patriot fan at all. But that as a serious charge that should be backed by verifiable fact, or not mentioned. Again, there to my knowledge wasn't even a congressional hearing (LOL like that would bring out the truth). But I think my point is clear. This stuff is more a Urban legend than anything. As much as many would like to believe its the truth. As for the burning of the tapes. Well, the NFL is a private corporation, not the white house. Maybe they burned them because they over stepped and there was nothing damming on them. They slapped the Hoodys hand with a fine. They did not ban him, which you think would happen if he cheated his way to 3 superbowl wins. its just my opinion of a extremely muddy, rumor filled tabloid like scandal. All we can really say is: The correlation is undeniable. Now, as to causation? .....who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 What I've learned about Pats performances in Super Bowls: it pretty much always comes down to the last minute. At that point, it's 50-50. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't. Nothing more, nothing less. I wouldn't read too much into it. The record is more or less irrelevant when measured against this basic fact. A couple of freaky plays by the Giants (Bradshaw's fumble being recovered by the G-Men; the Tyree catch) put them over the top; a couple of games in which their opponents didn't make such plays at the end (or in which the Pats had the ball last with a tie). I think you nailed it. I think it's silly when people say "officiating and/or luck even out during a game" or even during a season. But it does have a decent shot of evening out over a decade. The '01 team was incredibly lucky to win all 3 of their postseason games. The Rams rolled up twice as much yardage and shot themselves in the foot. Tennessee really outplayed them in '03. And the idiot Carolina kicker boots the ball out of bounds and gives them the ball on the 40. They lost the permanent horseshoe stuck up their behinds in that '05 Denver game where the breaks finally started going the other way. Poor drafting is another reasonable explanation. Coordinators are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Did Jimmy Johnson say that because every team did it or to keep the league from getting a black eye, he never said he did it or gave an example of who did it?? A championship team is caught cheating is being overblown? If there games come down to the last minute, would they have gotten those extra yards to set up Vinettiari without those tapes? You're Giants statement is irrelevant as the Giant Superbowl's where both after spygate. Here's the interview. http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/index.php/2008/02/23/jimmy-johnson-thinks-spygate-is-overblown/ He says it had been done for at least 18 years prior, when he first heard about it. The best part was him outing Howard Mudd as the Speilberg of signal taping. That would be the same Howard Mudd who went on to the coaching staff of Monsignor Dungy at the time of the spygate scandal. I'm not sure how a SB winning HC claiming that he did it, every team did it and they did it for many years "keeps the league from getting a black eye". Every HC in the League knew BB was doing this (Herm Edwards is apparently seen waving to the pats camera man in on vid) so I can't imagine they either didn't change their signals or gave fake ones. As I noted in another thread last night, anyone else remember the Eagles SB win and how the Pats* seemed to check down into a screen every time the Eagles brought a blitz, as if they knew the blitz was coming? I bet most keen QBs would be able to spot a blitz..... Edited February 7, 2012 by Mr. WEO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I bet most keen QBs would be able to spot a blitz..... Knowing what formation they blitz out of or what signal they call would make it easier, no? PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I think you nailed it. I think it's silly when people say "officiating and/or luck even out during a game" or even during a season. But it does have a decent shot of evening out over a decade. The '01 team was incredibly lucky to win all 3 of their postseason games. The Rams rolled up twice as much yardage and shot themselves in the foot. Tennessee really outplayed them in '03. And the idiot Carolina kicker boots the ball out of bounds and gives them the ball on the 40. They lost the permanent horseshoe stuck up their behinds in that '05 Denver game where the breaks finally started going the other way. Poor drafting is another reasonable explanation. Coordinators are not. Great point about the Denver game and the Carolina mis-kick. In that Denver game, the Broncos were the beneficiaries of a very bad call. Bailey was given a TD despite the fact that Ben Watson knocked the ball out before he crossed the plane. That stuff evens out when the margins are so small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The giants defensive ranking is a direct result of Osi and Tuck being injured for a large portion of the year. Their performances from the Jets game- SB is more of a reflection of their actual defensive talent This would fall under the category of blah, blah, blah The Giants had a poor defense most of the year. They played a lot better in the playoffs, but so did the Patriots. The Pats allowed 17 ppg in the playoffs, so are they a defensive team now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Maybe you missed how beat up that defenses started the season.the giants were without tuck how long? How many guys in the secondary were hurt in preseason? That ranking doesn't reflect the ability on the field lately. The bottom line is that they ranked 27th in total defense and last in rushing. I keep getting told how those things win championships. However, the constant in the past 5 SB's has been a franchise QB versus another franchise QB. Funny how people HERE gloss over the fact that Eli Manning had a season of 4th quarter dominance as has never been seen before, yet the same Giants defense that gave up 16 straight completions and a 14 play 96 yard TD drive was the dominant force in their mind. Eli competed 75% of his passes for near 300 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Did Jimmy Johnson say that because every team did it or to keep the league from getting a black eye, he never said he did it or gave an example of who did it?? A championship team is caught cheating is being overblown? If there games come down to the last minute, would they have gotten those extra yards to set up Vinettiari without those tapes? You're Giants statement is irrelevant as the Giant Superbowl's where both after spygate. Johnson made some off-hand comment about "everyone" doing it, without even the slighest bit of evidence (save for that damning expose on Howard Mudd some 20 years ago!). Beyond that, he admitted to doing whatever he could to cheat, and he and Belichick go fishing together. Hardly evidence or a character witness that would be credible even in the court of public opinion. The bottom line is that they ranked 27th in total defense and last in rushing. I keep getting told how those things win championships. However, the constant in the past 5 SB's has been a franchise QB versus another franchise QB. Funny how people HERE gloss over the fact that Eli Manning had a season of 4th quarter dominance as has never been seen before, yet the same Giants defense that gave up 16 straight completions and a 14 play 96 yard TD drive was the dominant force in their mind. Eli competed 75% of his passes for near 300 yards. The points scored/allowed are the more important stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 When a defense can limit a team to about half the points they averaged during the regular season and playoffs, yeah that's defense winning a championship. Play bottom of the barrel defense all season, say 27th or 31st......... then get hot in the playoffs. That's the blueprint. That's the lesson you've learned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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