NoSaint Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Per the Gaughan article in the News, it's been pretty well established by the U.S. Attorney's Office, the U.S. Border Patrol, and Merriman that there was NOTHING to the reports of ANY supplements, street legal, NFL legal, or otherwise being found in Merriman's luggage. There is simply nothing left to establish. GO BILLS!!! All customs said is "if it's not illegal, We can't comment" and merriman saying "Nuh uh" doesn't mean it's suddenly proven. Again, not arguing that he did anything wrong.... Just that we clearly don't know what his bags had, short of "everything in them was legal to possess" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouds Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) Moran claims that an arrest would not be made if you were found with PEDs, PEDs doesn't equal an arrest according to him. I have no idea if this is true or not, I'm guessing you'd be taken in if you had illegal drugs, but Moran is stating otherwise. Since Merriman wasn't arrested, US Attorney's Office wouldn't have the slightest idea. Border Patrol won't comment unless a charge or arrest is made. So we're basically left with one question, would you get arrested if you had this stuff on you, or would it just be confiscated? Border patrol won't comment on confiscation. All customs said is "if it's not illegal, We can't comment" and merriman saying "Nuh uh" doesn't mean it's suddenly proven. Again, not arguing that he did anything wrong.... Just that we clearly don't know what his bags had, short of "everything in them was legal to possess" You read my mind. Edited August 19, 2011 by bouds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 In other news, I'm watching the Pats*/Bucs game. Andre Carter looks like a beast.... Better hope Bell can block him, otherwise the Pats* are gonna be putting a lot of pressure on Fitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I get this argument, I studied philosophy. Its basically an Ad Hoc argument. But its like saying, Santa Clause is real. And maybe we just haven't discovered his technology or how he gets around etc. You can keep saying til your blue in the face that maybe, just maybe its still true. When reputal sources confirm that there is nothing to see here, it's time to put this story to bed and move on. Right but this would be with an amatuer scientist saying I've seen evidence, and being able to produce sleigh but not having anything about the man driving it on record, all while staking his career on this. All we have confirmed is that he was stopped, and nothing illegal was found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) Right but this would be with an amatuer scientist saying I've seen evidence, and being able to produce sleigh but not having anything about the man driving it on record, all while staking his career on this. All we have confirmed is that he was stopped, and nothing illegal was found. Touche. But I would have to say its like him finding a footprint on the roof in the snow, measuring it and then going and yelling that its Santa Clause and he is real. The sleigh would be pretty significant proof. Like they found a empty bottle or something. Moran doesn't even have that. He has a source.. So it's second hand account. Edited August 19, 2011 by Wayne333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 All customs said is "if it's not illegal, We can't comment" and merriman saying "Nuh uh" doesn't mean it's suddenly proven. Again, not arguing that he did anything wrong.... Just that we clearly don't know what his bags had, short of "everything in them was legal to possess" Earlier in the thread you said something to the effect that just because it can't be proven doesn't mean it isn't true. Given all that we now know from credible sources, including those involved, I will just say that just because something isn't true doesn't mean Moran can just make sh*t up. Not that the truth would ever get in the way of his facts. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) Touche. But I would have to say its like him finding a footprint on the roof in the snow, measuring it and then going and yelling that its Santa Clause and he is real. I suppose it depends what his source is. Truly I have no idea, but it sounds totally reasonable that he could have a banned substance that happened to catch someone's eye based on knowing his history, or from there days in body training and word got out. Ultimately even if that's true it seems it's merely a point of interest not a potential arrest or suspension or anything else. The story can only go so far at this point. Earlier in the thread you said something to the effect that just because it can't be proven doesn't mean it isn't true. Given all that we now know from credible sources, including those involved, I will just say that just because something isn't true doesn't mean Moran can just make sh*t up. Not that the truth would ever get in the way of his facts. GO BILLS!!! All we know is he got stopped and he didn't have illegal drugs. So far that's all consistant with Moran. From there we have pat saying I stand by my report, and Shawne saying he didn't have steroids. Both sides have credibility issues. How anyone can say clearly what was or wasn't in his bag baffles me. Edited August 19, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I agree journalism sucks these days because ... there are troubles in the business, but that doesn't mean there aren't good journalists out there. in fact there are some very good journalists out there whom i deal with and read on a regular basis. good stories are still being published, it's just a matter of finding them. there are some very good bloggers out there. unfortunately, not everyone is good at reporting or at blogging. and reputations can be easily blemished. i recently recall someone who absolutely guaranteed Clabo was going to sign with the Bills. and then, without shame, reported why that didn't in fact happen. if you're wrong on a story, fess up and apologize. if you're right, stand by it. and if you've done your investigative work and uncover nothing that at this moment you find newsworthy, then you leave it at that. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouds Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 All we know is he got stopped and he didn't have illegal drugs. So far that's all consistant with Moran. From there we have pat saying I stand by my report, and Shawne saying he didn't have steroids. Both sides have credibility issues. How anyone can say clearly what was or wasn't in his bag baffles me. Right, there's a gap here that needs to be filled. It's really a question about the law. Would you or wouldn't you be arrested for having PEDs? Wish Gaughan handled that area better. Ask border patrol what would get your ass arrested and what wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Don't be stupid. Of course they didn't hand it over to the NFL if its an illegal substance, and I didn't suggest that. They may very well have allowed some to be mailed to a lab for testing by the NFL. The border patrol almost certainly submitted it to whatever lab they use for testing. They don't know if its narcotics, steroids or lipitor without testing it. There aren't field tests for things like this. Thomas Russert of the U.S. Border Patrol in Buffalo said his office had no information to release. Russert said unless an individual was arrested or charged criminally, his office would not be able to discuss any border matter, under privacy regulations. http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article526915.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 because ... there are troubles in the business, but that doesn't mean there aren't good journalists out there. in fact there are some very good journalists out there whom i deal with and read on a regular basis. good stories are still being published, it's just a matter of finding them. there are some very good bloggers out there. unfortunately, not everyone is good at reporting or at blogging. and reputations can be easily blemished. i recently recall someone who absolutely guaranteed Clabo was going to sign with the Bills. and then, without shame, reported why that didn't in fact happen. if you're wrong on a story, fess up and apologize. if you're right, stand by it. and if you've done your investigative work and uncover nothing that at this moment you find newsworthy, then you leave it at that. jw Unfortunately, everything you've just described is hard work... especially that last part. The proliferation of lazy reporting/blogging is also making discerning readers a less frequent commodity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 because ... there are troubles in the business, but that doesn't mean there aren't good journalists out there. in fact there are some very good journalists out there whom i deal with and read on a regular basis. good stories are still being published, it's just a matter of finding them. there are some very good bloggers out there. unfortunately, not everyone is good at reporting or at blogging. and reputations can be easily blemished. i recently recall someone who absolutely guaranteed Clabo was going to sign with the Bills. and then, without shame, reported why that didn't in fact happen. if you're wrong on a story, fess up and apologize. if you're right, stand by it. and if you've done your investigative work and uncover nothing that at this moment you find newsworthy, then you leave it at that. jw Agreed on all fronts. Not meant as a knock on everyone in the industry. More that as a whole it's lost a lot of reliability and former very high level of respect. With 24 hour news, Joe anybody blogging, etc... the industry got pulled down as a whole. Standards got looser. That's not to say there aren't as many if not more gifted people in it with high standards. Basically it was an over generalized knock Right, there's a gap here that needs to be filled. It's really a question about the law. Would you or wouldn't you be arrested for having PEDs? Wish Gaughan handled that area better. Ask border patrol what would get your ass arrested and what wouldn't. I believe it depends on type. Things like a need for prescription can make a big difference, and some are flat illegal. He could have had a simple gym supplement banned by the NFL but sitting at gnc stores nationwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Agreed on all fronts. Not meant as a knock on everyone in the industry. More that as a whole it's lost a lot of reliability and former very high level of respect. With 24 hour news, Joe anybody blogging, etc... the industry got pulled down as a whole. Standards got looser. That's not to say there aren't as many if not more gifted people in it with high standards. Basically it was an over generalized knock I believe it depends on type. Things like a need for prescription can make a big difference, and some are flat illegal. He could have had a simple gym supplement banned by the NFL but sitting at gnc stores nationwide. no, no, and no. the standards aren't looser in what many might now refer to as the "old" media, where publications and outlets have established their reputations -- good and bad -- over decades. the trick in today's "modern" media is to judge someone -- a blogger, a twitterer, a poster -- on the basis of a much smaller track record. if it's difficult for some to determine the difference between new and old media, and lump both together, well, sure things are generally faster and looser. and yet, with the AP and as with many publications, the standards haven't changed. the goal is to be first and to be accurate. not one or the other. and i'd rather be beat than be wrong. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) no, no, and no. the standards aren't looser in what many might now refer to as the "old" media, where publications and outlets have established their reputations -- good and bad -- over decades. the trick in today's "modern" media is to judge someone -- a blogger, a twitterer, a poster -- on the basis of a much smaller track record. if it's difficult for some to determine the difference between new and old media, and lump both together, well, sure things are generally faster and looser. and yet, with the AP and as with many publications, the standards haven't changed. the goal is to be first and to be accurate. not one or the other. and i'd rather be beat than be wrong. jw John, I get it. I was saying everything was lumped in my offhand comment, but that it's not fair to do that. It came from the idea that new or old - it's all media. In previous incarnations there was a gold standard set of rules for media. Now it's all over the place. Many follow the old standard. The fact that other standards exist is a general step down for "media" but I don't mean that to say everyone has taken that step. Being the first one to get it right should be the ultimate goal, not just the first to get anything out there. What worries me on pats story is it's obvious it was rushed out for some reason. That or he's a big mess. Either way its shaky ground to be claiming "no guys, just trust me on this." Edited August 19, 2011 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsintaiwan Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 all this brings to mind william s. burroughs's 'word virus' and the lyndon johnson story (don't know if it's true) in which he directed his campaign team to spread a rumor that his opponent copulated with pigs. they said, sir that isn't true. lyndon said, 'make him deny it.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Merriman was there. He says he didn't have steroids. Moran was not there. He says he did. Who knows, Moran may be right. But right now I have to go with Merriman. And shame on Moran for publishing a one-source article (a contravention of journalistic standards)! He should have worked harder to try to prove his information. Failing that, this should have never been published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Moran is a douchebag. His tweets confirm it. He wrote he "knows what happened." Umm, right, Pat -- now you're a border patrol guard? Nothing confiscated, no arrest, no story. Some idiot told somebody Merriman went through a routine border search and the rest is blog history. May we close this thread now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayFinkle Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Where does Moran live? Does he even live in WNY? Does he realize that getting pulled over at the boarder is NOT unusual when coming back into the states? Also roids ARE an illegal substance. If they were found, there would be a record of it and Merriman would have been charged. Border Patrol is a federal agency, they don't mess around. If he did something wrong, there would be a record of it, and he would have been charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Moran is a douchebag. His tweets confirm it. He wrote he "knows what happened." Umm, right, Pat -- now you're a border patrol guard? Nothing confiscated, no arrest, no story. Some idiot told somebody Merriman went through a routine border search and the rest is blog history. May we close this thread now? Seriously considering it, eball.. Not a word of this mentioned in national news, espn, nfln. What a freakin' waste of time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Updated PFT Article That said, one of the fundamental assumptions of the BuffaloSportsDaily.com report is deeply flawed. “He was not arrested and booked because from what I’m told,” the report states, “simply being in the possession of the substance is not technically illegal.” The problem is that possession of steroids is illegal, absent a valid medical prescription. (Indeed, if Raiders receiver Louis Murphy can be busted for possessing Viagra without a prescription, Merriman can be busted for having steroids without a prescription.) And so the absence of an arrest means that Merriman wasn’t in possession of steroids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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