Nix/Gailey, the Big 10, and the Pac 10

[Dr. Fong]

It'd be much better if they drafted a player from a good Northern school like Penn State. Like say Aaron Maybin. How'd that work out?

 

I don't care where the players are from. Get some guys on the field that are big, strong, tough, and fast. Everything else is superfluous.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

There is lazy, and there is knowing you can't know everything so you become an expert at what you do know.

 

PTR

 

That's it. My concern though: do other teams have this same approach? If not, we're seriously self-limiting the pool of players that we can pick from.

 

I go back to the o-line...lot of great o-linemen from the Big Ten (Wisconsin, OSU, Michigan, Iowa). Are we missing those guys because we feel "more comfortable" with Chris Hairston, whom we drafted because we know the ACC.

[DrDawkinstein]

There is NO conspiracy. There is no "lazy front office".

 

The SEC has DOMINATED college football for at least the last 5 years. Most of the top level football is being played in the South, and most of the top level players are coming from the South.

 

Teams have been drafting a lot of players from the South for YEARS. I have been screaming and begging for the Bills to start drafting from the top SEC schools for years. This is not new.

 

What IS new, is that the Bills finally caught on (or rather, hired someone with a clue), and when tasked with replacing all of our undersized, soft players Nix went right to the best spot.

 

Of course, good players can and do come from anywhere. But when you need to reduce the risk of whiffing, and when you are building a team of BIG, NASTY players, you start in the SEC and work your way around the South. It is that simple.

 

In 2009 (I just used Maybin's year) 8 of the 32 picks in the first round were from the SEC. Thats 25%! In 2009, the SEC was the most drafted conference at 37 (ACC 2nd most at 34).

 

In 2010, there were 49 total picks from just the SEC, more than any other conference (2nd was Big 10 at 34).

 

The Bills arent doing something other teams arent. We're finally doing what smart teams have been.

Edited August 15, 2011 by DrDareustein

[Jauronimo]

This thread turning into one more, boring, "my conference is better" college football tardfest in 5...4...3..

 

Look, as a Bills fan that doesn't care whatsoever about college football, largely because the entire premise of "who is better" is solely based on opinion polls and promotion, with play on the field taking a back seat...and as this is a Bills board, I have to say: spare us the college conference crap. This is a retarded argument made by retards, supported by their retarded allies in the media, in hopes of getting other retards to spend money.

 

Does anyone honestly believe that the retards at ESPN aren't promoting the hell out of whichever conference of retards they have a contract with? Said promotion then serving as "proof" for the contracted retards that their conference is better than another conference of retards?

 

In the immortal words of Hancock: "You're all idiots".

Doesn't look like it is turning into anything of the sort, but thank you for that wholly unnecessary rant. That was obnoxious even by TBD standards. Great Will Smith reference too. So immortal I had to look it up. Dropping quotes from the Fresh Prince himself is a powerful way to enforce your point. How did you manage to choose?

 

In the immortal words of Hancock: "Gettin' jiggy with it" or "Smell you later"

[DrDawkinstein]

Doesn't look like it is turning into anything of the sort, but thank you for that wholly unnecessary rant. That was obnoxious even by TBD standards. Great Will Smith reference too. So immortal I had to look it up. Dropping quotes from the Fresh Prince himself is a powerful way to enforce your point. How did you manage to choose?

 

In the immortal words of Hancock: "Gettin' jiggy with it" or "Smell you later"

 

Im actually angry you quoted that, and made me read a post I already had on ignore.

 

You owe me a handful of brain cells.

[Jauronimo]

Im actually angry you quoted that, and made me read a post I already had on ignore.

 

You owe me a handful of brain cells.

You got a problem with me?

 

Well, in the immortal words of the Fresh Prince "you know, its Big Willie Style"

 

uhhhh...I mean "Just the two of us, we can make it if we try"

 

nope thats not it, let me try again...."We going straight to the Wild Wild West, Sisqo, Sisqo", yeah, thats the one. That's tough.

[dave mcbride]

You suggested that this "bias" was a result of "lazy" scouting and "mental shortcuts" which clearly implied that you believed Nix and co. were discounting or omitting the other major college conferences during the scouting process. If Nix and his scouting department are really only evaluating the SEC and ACC I find that to be seriously negligent. The allegations made in this thread have been pretty damning.

 

I don't consider what we're seeing to be a bias at all, as I don't think the Big 10 product is equal to the SEC. We don't talk about a bias for Division I players over Division III football players, as we acknowledge the difference in quality. If anything, there seemed to be a previous bias toward drafting from the Big 10 despite the fact that better talent was out there, which would start to explain the roster turn over. If you think that the SEC is true football country, why would you call the selection of SEC talent a "mental shortcut"?

Bias and mental shortcuts aren't necessarily bad. Don't overinterpret what I'm saying. Incidentally, you may not think that favoring D1 players is a form of bias, but I do. But I also think that bias is justified. As for the laziness charge, I was responding to another poster and never said that I was sure of this. I said it *could* be the case, but I also said that the South is loaded with good players.

[Mark Vader]

Did you read my post?

I did, and I have to ask you, why did you leave out the Tight End position?

 

Here they are:

 

Scott Chandler Big 10 (Iowa)

 

David Martin SEC (Tennessee)

 

Shawn Nelson Deep south school (Southern MIssissippi)

 

Zack Pianalto ACC (North Carolina)

 

Let's remember that Chandler is the potential starting TE on the team and Nix & Gailey picked him up from Dallas' practice squad.

Edited August 15, 2011 by Mark Vader

[dave mcbride]

There is NO conspiracy. There is no "lazy front office".

 

The SEC has DOMINATED college football for at least the last 5 years. Most of the top level football is being played in the South, and most of the top level players are coming from the South.

 

Teams have been drafting a lot of players from the South for YEARS. I have been screaming and begging for the Bills to start drafting from the top SEC schools for years. This is not new.

 

What IS new, is that the Bills finally caught on (or rather, hired someone with a clue), and when tasked with replacing all of our undersized, soft players Nix went right to the best spot.

 

Of course, good players can and do come from anywhere. But when you need to reduce the risk of whiffing, and when you are building a team of BIG, NASTY players, you start in the SEC and work your way around the South. It is that simple.

 

In 2009 (I just used Maybin's year) 8 of the 32 picks in the first round were from the SEC. Thats 25%! In 2009, the SEC was the most drafted conference at 37 (ACC 2nd most at 34).

 

In 2010, there were 49 total picks from just the SEC, more than any other conference (2nd was Big 10 at 34).

 

The Bills arent doing something other teams arent. We're finally doing what smart teams have been.

I agree that their bias may in fact be a good thing in the end. We'll see soon enough.

 

I did, and I have to ask you, why did you leave out the Tight End position?

 

Here they are:

 

Scott Chandler (Iowa) Big 10

 

David Martin (Tennessee) SEC

 

Shawn Nelson (Souther Mississippi) Deep south school

 

Zack Pianalto (North Carolina) ACC

 

Let's remember that Chandler is the potential starting TE on the team and Nix & Gailey picked him up from Dallas' practice squad.

I neglected TE, so thanks. It was a mistake (and apparently, no good deed goes unpunished). Don't know much about Chandler. The rest of 'em are all southerners, however. They drafted an Iowa O-lineman in the seventh round in 2010 too, but he didn't make it.

Edited August 15, 2011 by dave mcbride

[rpcolosi]

Or perhaps they are simply picking players from the best schools? I wonder, who has been the best conference in the NCAA the past 5-6 years. Oh, hte SEC. And I'm a huge OSU/Big 10 fan. but lets face it. Most Big 10 players and Pac 10 PLayers get a TON of hype, but don't pan out to their draft status - AJ Hawk, Poz, Lee, Boller, Trent, Gholston, Nugent, Maroney, the list goes on.

 

While there are of course good players from the Big 10 and Pac 10 taken every year, the vast majority of solid/upper echelon guys, even later in the draft, come from the SEC. Don't agree? Start watching who the winning teams like the Pats have been drafting from... Aaron Hernandez, Ryan Mallet, Jared Mayo, Brandon Spikes... Ok I'll stop there. Stop insinuating some "the south's gonna do it again" mentality when its clear other winning teams draft heavily from the same region.

[DefenseWins]

Lazy can sometimes be confused with smart and/or knowing your limitations.

 

In this case, only drafting what you know means no busts, like Maybin. Yes, you may miss out on a few good players...but you won't waste high picks on bad ones.

 

 

 

Like Spiller....

[atlbillsfan1975]

The south always has the best college football. It has been dominating the NCAA's for the past 6 years.

Nix was a scout for the south, so he knows it best.

Maybe just maybe Mr Wilson started to pick up a trend in college football? Went out and got a GM and head coach with strong ties to the south??

Not saying that there wont be exceptions to the rule, but i think as long as Buddy and Chan are in Buffalo you will see a lot of southern boys on the team. Which makes perfect sense. Nothing against Syracuse or Penn State or any other N.E school, but the south rules in college football!!

[OCinBuffalo]

Im actually angry you quoted that, and made me read a post I already had on ignore.

 

You owe me a handful of brain cells.

Nobody cares

 

and...

 

You got a problem with me?

 

Well, in the immortal words of the Fresh Prince "you know, its Big Willie Style"

 

uhhhh...I mean "Just the two of us, we can make it if we try"

 

nope thats not it, let me try again...."We going straight to the Wild Wild West, Sisqo, Sisqo", yeah, thats the one. That's tough.

Nobody cares.

 

 

[Malazan]

Like Spiller....

 

or Dareus, that guy hasn't shown anything in a real NFL game yet

[dave mcbride]

Or perhaps they are simply picking players from the best schools? I wonder, who has been the best conference in the NCAA the past 5-6 years. Oh, hte SEC. And I'm a huge OSU/Big 10 fan. but lets face it. Most Big 10 players and Pac 10 PLayers get a TON of hype, but don't pan out to their draft status - AJ Hawk, Poz, Lee, Boller, Trent, Gholston, Nugent, Maroney, the list goes on.

 

While there are of course good players from the Big 10 and Pac 10 taken every year, the vast majority of solid/upper echelon guys, even later in the draft, come from the SEC. Don't agree? Start watching who the winning teams like the Pats have been drafting from... Aaron Hernandez, Ryan Mallet, Jared Mayo, Brandon Spikes... Ok I'll stop there. Stop insinuating some "the south's gonna do it again" mentality when its clear other winning teams draft heavily from the same region.

Dude, you actually need to read what I wrote. I have no problem with going after southern players. This ain't an argument. It's an observation. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that no fan is more defensive than a Bills fan.

Edited August 16, 2011 by dave mcbride

[ICanSleepWhenI'mDead]

Good post. I do know that they've revamped the scouting department, and probably for the better.

Do you think they should devote less scouting resources to the West Coast, and more to the South and Southeast?

 

http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/130198-reorganizing-the-scouting-department/page__hl__%2Bchannel+%2Bbuddy

[Geno Smith's Arm]

I actually do think that if Whitner had gone to Alabama or LSU, they would have treated him differently. Of course Maybin sucks, and they weren't going to keep him. But so did Buster Davis, and at about the same level as Maybin. Look where Buster is now.

 

 

Ahh! Here's the quote that cuts to the crux. If Whitner had played in the SEC he never would have been drafted so high, because they would have plenty of tape of him playing against the elite talent of the SEC instead the weaker Big 10 talent.

 

I think they are following the talent, and don't think they will skip over a great talent just because they don't play in the South. I have no interest in college football beyond how well the guys might play for the Bills. The South has more talent and they are playing at a higher performance level. I think concentrating on players from those schools is a logical thing to do.

Edited August 16, 2011 by Matthews' Bag

[dave mcbride]

Ahh! Here's the quote that cuts to the crux. If Whitner had played in the SEC he never would have been drafted so high, because they would have plenty of tape of him playing against the elite talent of the SEC instead the weaker Big 10 talent.

 

I think they are following the talent, and don't think they will skip over a great talent just because they don't play in the South. I have no interest in college football beyond how well the guys might play for the Bills. The South has more talent and they are playing at a higher performance level. I think concentrating on players from those schools is a logical thing to do.

Not a bad point.

[dave mcbride]

The case could be made that for about eight years of the first decade of this century, the most consistent top team was USC. While any number of other teams rose and fell during that time (and beat them out for top dog more often than not), they were always early-season picks for numbers 1-3 and usually finished somewhere in the top five range. Additionally, they played a very NFL friendly style. During that time SC sent a large number of players to the NFL. Now, for whatever reason, the Bills never once drafted a single one of their top players during that time. This reached the apogee of absurdity when the Brain Trust passed on Matthews and Cushing in favor of Maybin. I have no idea why this was so but it seemed at the time to be very odd.

 

The reason Nixley seems to favor the south and the SEC in particular probably has to do with familiarity, an important factor when reloading on the run (the same reason Nix signs so many former Chargers, I'd guess). It also probably has more than a little to do with the SEC being the most dominant collegiate conference.

 

So, you had one regime ignoring one of the best NFL factories and a new one turning to another excellent NFL factory. We'll see how it turns out, but if I had to bet serious money on which one is more likely to be successful, my vast fortune would be on Nixley.

 

As an aside, there are a ton of Pac-10 players in the NFL, just not on the Bills. It may not be the SEC but it's still pretty darned good football. It may have escaped notice by some but Nix has significantly enlarged - and I believe, improved - the scouting department, with an increased focus on the West Coast department. So look for that to have an impact in coming years on the Bills roster.

 

All in all, I'd say this is an organization pointed in the right direction and making the right decisions far, far more than not.

 

Interestingly, since 1989, the Bills have drafted only player from USC - Cary Harris in the sixth round in 2008. Going back to the early 1970s, the Bills have selected only a very small (to the point of being negligible) handful of players from SC, and none earlier than the sixth round. Pretty interesting given that SC has had more players drafted than any other school in history (and more players drafted in 2011 than any other school for that matter - nine).

 

The last player drafted from SC who made any sort of impact was Bob Chandler. It's ironic because the most famous and best Bill of all-time (with apologies to Bruce) went to SC ...

Edited August 16, 2011 by dave mcbride

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

Interestingly, since 1989, the Bills have drafted only player from USC - Cary Harris in the sixth round in 2008. Going back to the early 1970s, the Bills have selected only a very small (to the point of being negligible) handful of players from SC, and none earlier than the sixth round. Pretty interesting given that SC has had more players drafted than any other school in history (and more players drafted in 2011 than any other school for that matter - nine).

 

The last player drafted from SC who made any sort of impact was Bob Chandler. It's ironic because the most famous and best Bill of all-time (with apologies to Bruce) went to SC ...

 

 

It's the Curse of Al Cowlings.