truth on hold Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 He's had 4 knee surgeries. At the Masters a month ago he hit a shot from under a tree which required more knee bend, which caused a strain that kept him out until today. On the front 9 today he shoots +6 and withdraws, stating his left leg from his knee to his achilles stiffened up. This is some scary stuff ... I cut and pasted this from a golf forum from someone in the medical field. "Hey guys, I don't post very much and therefore don't have much dog in this fight as I'm not a huge TIger fan or detractor, but there are a lot of misconceptions about injury, anatomy, and "faking" here that just don't sound right. First, the anatomy: Tiger is creating a good deal of torque as he clears his hips through the swing against a relatively static distal lower extremity. From what I can surmise, he has consistently had problems with his medial knee - multiple arthroscopic procedures to clear damaged cartilage from his (probably medial) meniscus. I am not sure if he has had repair or a definitive allograft (a transplanted meniscus), but either way, he has a lack a stability in the knee that is most likely permanent. The medial knee takes most of the load for the body, and a lack of proper support (a complete meniscus - which is at the most basic level simply a plastic cup that the femur rests in on top of the tibia) contributes to unpredictable motion within the joint. The problem with an unstable joint is that you never really know when the ligaments are going to fail at load. Unfortunately, Tiger's swing (stack and tilt)? isn't doing him any favors and causes extreme varus (bowing) at the knee joint with all of that load at the target leg. There is a simultaneous or nearly simultaneous lateral radial rotation (load on ACL and MCL) with varus (load on ACL and LCL). It is no surprise, therefore, that he has had his ACL replaced, and has concomitant MCL issues. This injury actually has a clinical nickname because it is so common - the "Unhappy Triad" - ACL and MCL rupture with medial meniscus tear. Most likely that his strengthened ACL (a strong autograft from another part of his body) is holding but his original MCL is now weakened. Most would recommend a lateral rotation of the foot in the setup to take pressure off of the joint (this is recommended for seniors) along with less grip in the base (no metal spikes!). This is exactly opposite of what Tiger does - he actually needs a weaker base to protect the knee. All of that aside, I have no doubt that he is in a lot of pain and that he shouldn't continue the tournament - ideas about fighting through injuries such as these is pretty juvenile. It is perfectly logical that he could injure himself badly at any time, and wouldn't be surprised if we later found out that he had strained or partially tore his ACL. The Achilles problem only adds to the issues, but I've talked too much already." Sounds like he's fading fast and will never be the same again. Heck even sounds like there's a chance he's one bad swing from not playing anymore. Sucks because I like golf and in particular wanted to watch TWs career unfold, as I was too young to see Nicklaus. I caught all of Jordan's which was great, and guys like this don't come along very often. So it will be a real shame for sports in general if this thing isn't turned around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 This would certainly explain his precipitous fall in his game. If this is all true it suggests that Nicholas will remain as the legend of the game and Tiger may one day be remembered with a footnote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) On mike and mike this am they compared him to Ken Griffey jr. A rare specimen who was putting up #'s comfortably had him on pace to break important records until a series of injuries and ultimately age reduced him to a footnote. Edited May 13, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 This would certainly explain his precipitous fall in his game. If this is all true it suggests that Nicholas will remain as the legend of the game and Tiger may one day be remembered with a footnote. I don't know. If his career were to end today, I think ultimately the two would be viewed on pretty much an equal standing. A difference of 4 majors doesn't seem like all that much to me, considering the fact that they're both in the teens. There are two major differences that I see, one in favor of each man. Jack has the 86 Masters and Tiger has the unrivaled dominance of his early career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 He's had 4 knee surgeries. At the Masters a month ago he hit a shot from under a tree which required more knee bend, which caused a strain that kept him out until today. On the front 9 today he shoots +6 and withdraws, stating his left leg from his knee to his achilles stiffened up. This is some scary stuff ... I cut and pasted this from a golf forum from someone in the medical field. I don't think there is any question that the biggest factor in Woods' decline is that his body is breaking down. He's 35 and at the age most athletes start to slow down anyway. I think that poster was spot on -- considering the way he swings the club and the amount of force/stress he puts on his knees and other joints, the rash of injuries is not that surprising. He plays a power game and so the very style that allowed him to dominate the sport (and inspired a generation of younger, more aggressive players who are now competing with him) is probably the thing that will ensure he does not have a particularly long career. Honestly, I don't see him catching Nicholas any longer. This would certainly explain his precipitous fall in his game. If this is all true it suggests that Nicholas will remain as the legend of the game and Tiger may one day be remembered with a footnote. The 2d greatest golfer ever and one who completely changed the way the sport is played would be a footnote? Yeah, ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 The more I read about Tiger Woods and his fall from atop the golfing game, I see the circumstantial evidence of steroid use. The erratic personality, prevalent use of Ambien, and the chronic tendon and joint injuries makes me wonder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 On mike and mike this am they compared him to Ken Griffey jr. A rare specimen who was putting up #'s comfortably had him on pace to break important records until a series of injuries and ultimately age reduced him to a footnote. The more I read about Tiger Woods and his fall from atop the golfing game, I see the circumstantial evidence of steroid use. The erratic personality, prevalent use of Ambien, and the chronic tendon and joint injuries makes me wonder. Actually, there have always been steroid questions about Griffey, and that when all of the steroid controversy in baseball took place (2002-2003) Griffey's statistics suddenly nosedived and he was frequently injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 The 2d greatest golfer ever and one who completely changed the way the sport is played would be a footnote? Yeah, ok. I said remembered with, not as, a footnote. Point being that injury may cut his career short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kegtapr Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 He needs to change his game and whole mindset about the way he plays if he wants to play past a few more years. Few players can do this, but he has the skills and the drive to be able to return to the top (or close to it anyways). One could hope if he manages to do this, it will also change his crappy attitude on the course, otherwise I could care less if he fades into obscurity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 (edited) I'd say for the most part Griffey is a footnote at this point. #5 all time hr list is miles away from #1.And the pathetic way he faded away left lasting negative images. Edited May 13, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 The thing about Tiger right now is that the stuff that is currently killing him (other than the injury, of course) is that he hasn't been draining many of the putts that have always been routine to him. I have a hard time blaming that on any physical ailments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 The 2d greatest golfer ever and one who completely changed the way the sport is played would be a footnote? Yeah, ok. That's where you rank him? Bobby Jones, then Tiger Woods? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 At least this time it's not the Wizard Alien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I think its time for him to whistle in the dogs, pee on the fire, and turn his horse homeward. Those injuries you described are hardly the kind of thing that is going to go away or even get good enough for him to play at a top level, and I can't see him hanging out just to play and not be competitive. Wish him well, even though a goodly number of the crises in his life were of his own doing. Then again isn't that true of all of us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Other thing this guys been golf obsessed and competing since he was in diapers. His effective age as a golfer is a lot more than 35. probably worn out mentally and wouldn't mind getting away from the intense heat of competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 One quick little thing, Tiger does not use the "stack and tilt" swing. Switching to Foley changed his swing to more of a one-plane swing. For people that may not know the difference, the stack and tilt swing involves "stacking" weight on the front leg during the swing and letting your momentum catch up throughout the course of the swing. A lot of older people use this swing because its easier on the hips, shoulders, and knees and allows them to make more consistent contact. The one-plane swing has the player staying back (more 60-40 than anything) and gradually letting their momentum come forward as the swing progresses. This swing is much tougher on the knees and legs in general because the legs are a relatively large power source. IF he was using a stack and tilt swing (only one recent player has had any success with it, and he has switched back to a conventional swing is Aaron Baddeley) it would actually be much easier on his knee and lower body. That's just the sparknotes version of the differences in the swings. Now, Tigers main problem is that he is not playing golf anymore, he is playing "swing the club." Every shot consists of checkpoints in the swing and he is worried more about hitting his checkpoints than he needs to be. Amateurs get caught up with this all the time and my coaches have always told me to try to ignore anything you are working on changing while playing competitively, just get out there and play golf the way you know how. Tiger will come back around, he has too much talent to not to. He would honestly be better off forgetting about working on his swing and just going out and working on shots and confidence. But then again, there is a reason I'm a mid-teens handicap and he's on the PGA Tour. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 He barely plays anymore always in rehab. He's out for US Open His well known caddie Stevie Williams is on the bag with Adam Scott this week Seriously is he done and just putting up a front he has a chance to come back so Nike wont seek an out clause in his 70 mill / yr contract? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huuuge Bills Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 To be fair he's only been out for a year and a half. And the first few months of that he was in "sex rehab". Then he pulled a Sam Bradford and came back way too soon with an injury that you simply shouldn't rush back from. He used to lock out his left knee to create a more powerful shot. Which wore it down prematurely. Then he rushed back and made it even worse. Throw in that he has problems with his right Achilles, and it's not surprising that he isn't back yet. Golfers play competitively into their 50's, and Tiger is much better shape than all of them. Give him another few months and I think he'll be back and competitive. While I doubt he ever returns to his previous winning ways, he'll win a few more tournaments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 More than likely, his days of dominance are over. He may come back and win a major every few years, but he won't catch Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 To be fair he's only been out for a year and a half. And the first few months of that he was in "sex rehab". Then he pulled a Sam Bradford and came back way too soon with an injury that you simply shouldn't rush back from. He used to lock out his left knee to create a more powerful shot. Which wore it down prematurely. Then he rushed back and made it even worse. Throw in that he has problems with his right Achilles, and it's not surprising that he isn't back yet. Golfers play competitively into their 50's, and Tiger is much better shape than all of them. Give him another few months and I think he'll be back and competitive. While I doubt he ever returns to his previous winning ways, he'll win a few more tournaments. Sounds like PEDs to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 The guy's not a kid anymore, his body is breaking down and so far he hasn't been willing to spend the time necessary on the DL to fully heal. He should shut it down for the rest of 2011 and focus on getting healthy. His days of dominance are over, but that was going to happen with or without the sex scandal (in fact, it's been years since he was truly dominant). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWVaBeach Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Sounds like PEDs to me. It really does. At one time he looked like he could play safety for the Bills. He doesn't look nearly as large now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 It really does. At one time he looked like he could play safety for the Bills. He doesn't look nearly as large now. Someone in the media likes to point out that he hasn't won since his doctor was arrested. Can't remember which on air personality that is though. link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metal Man Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Sounds like PEDs to me. I can't recall ever reading anything about PED testing in golf.... Anyone know if such a thing exists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 If he remembers how to putt, he'll still win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 If he remembers how to putt, he'll still win. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 A guy I know down here in FL who has played on 4 PGA Tour events in the past 12 months including The Arnold Palmer Invitational at Bay Hill back in March has told me that in his opinion, Tiger is done. He said that Tiger just mentally isn't in the game anymore and has stopped playing golf and started playing "golf swing." He's right on about what he's doing wrong, but I'm not totally sold on Tiger being done quite yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 A guy I know down here in FL who has played on 4 PGA Tour events in the past 12 months including The Arnold Palmer Invitational at Bay Hill back in March has told me that in his opinion, Tiger is done. He said that Tiger just mentally isn't in the game anymore and has stopped playing golf and started playing "golf swing." He's right on about what he's doing wrong, but I'm not totally sold on Tiger being done quite yet. Judging from the $60M home/training facility he just built in Jupiter, FL - complete with lap pool, track, gym, and 4-hole course designed to hone his short game - I'd have to agree that Tiger's not getting ready to join the Seniors Tour any time soon... Link - Tiger Woods set to move into new $60m den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowgirlsFan Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 To be fair he's only been out for a year and a half. And the first few months of that he was in "sex rehab". Then he pulled a Sam Bradford and came back way too soon with an injury that you simply shouldn't rush back from. He used to lock out his left knee to create a more powerful shot. Which wore it down prematurely. Then he rushed back and made it even worse. Throw in that he has problems with his right Achilles, and it's not surprising that he isn't back yet. Golfers play competitively into their 50's, and Tiger is much better shape than all of them. Give him another few months and I think he'll be back and competitive. While I doubt he ever returns to his previous winning ways, he'll win a few more tournaments. Give him a few months...I don't think so....how about a full year away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 he won't catch Jack. Can you imagine how silly that would have sounded just a few years ago? This kid was so much more talented than anyone else in his profession, it was just unfathomable that he wouldn't far surpass Jack in majors. Now the kid is in his mid 30s, and has won what, one major since 2007? What a fall from grace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I think so. Sadly. So, for that matter, are the record breaking TV viewing audiences the PGA has enjoyed through Tigers' years to date. I count myself as one of many millions who tuned in every week to watch HIM specifically. I couldn't care less about any other golfer- all of whom tie for 2nd place in the game.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I think so. Sadly. So, for that matter, are the record breaking TV viewing audiences the PGA has enjoyed through Tigers' years to date. I count myself as one of many millions who tuned in every week to watch HIM specifically. I couldn't care less about any other golfer- all of whom tie for 2nd place in the game.. I'd love to see how the ratings spiked at the masters this year when he inched his way towards the top of that leader board. But that was the perfect example of what is wrong with Tiger today. That relatively short eagle putt that would have put him alone in the lead? The real Tiger Woods never misses that putt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Good article on TW. http://www.mercuryne...?nclick_check=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\GoBillsInDallas/ Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 His doctor will plead guilty: http://www.buffalonews.com/city/article474807.ece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Is his divorce final yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowgirlsFan Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 won't play the British. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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