Coahces and FO stance on Fitz

[Johnny Hammersticks]

Fitz at times, was the only bright spot this team had last season. His toughness and leadership is an admirable quality. But let's be real here. He's not a guy that we can build this team around. Fitz is a stop gap starting QB and a great backup QB. We still need a guy that we can say is our franchise guy and someone that we can build this team around to become relevant again.

 

Well, that's like your opinion dude. I don't think it's fair for you to make those assertions yet. We'll have to see what happens next season (if there is a season) before we can proclaim Fitz to be merely "stop gap starting QB." By asserting this, you are just as bad as those posters who assert that "Von Miller is the next Maybin," or "Cam Newton is the next JaMarcus Russell," or "C.J. Spiller is a bust."

 

The fact is...you just don't know this yet. You're better than that Bangarang.

[PDaDdy]

I'm uncertain why you keep asking this question and patting yourself on the back for what you believe makes it so clever...It's not a clever question...

 

1st off if Luck came out in this Draft he would be a Carolina Panther period...end of story...So The Bills would still have zero chance of Drafting him and would still need a Franchise QB...Secondly, a QB Prospect like Luck comes along maybe once every 5 years...The last QB to come out of College with a resume similar to Luck's was Eli Manning in 2004...So does that Make Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, or Aaron Rodgers any less desirable?

 

Comparing Luck to ANY QB Prospect is unfair at this point...He's far and away the best NFL Prospect at any Position right now...But just because Luck is Projected to be the next Elway does not mean Newton and Gabbert won't be the next Kelly or Marino...The two things have nothing to do with each other whatsoever...The Bills do not expect to be in the position to Draft Luck next Season, and I for one hope they're not...So I guess I simply don't see you're point in asking that question over and over again...

 

Just saying...

 

 

I don't need to pat myself on the back. But now that you mention it my question must be incredibly clever. I must have brilliantly asked a question that was so to the point hat nobody can answer with a simple yes or no question and instead write paragraphs about the question itself while never answering it.

 

Fitz at times, was the only bright spot this team had last season. His toughness and leadership is an admirable quality. But let's be real here. He's not a guy that we can build this team around. Fitz is a stop gap starting QB and a great backup QB. We still need a guy that we can say is our franchise guy and someone that we can build this team around to become relevant again.

 

I'll give some concessions in he is not a guy you necessarily build around but I very optimistic about finally having a guy at QB that can get the job done. He is not Peyton Manning. He is not Aaron Rodgers. He is not Tom Brady. He is just a good QB that has shown promise at times in his career. I am optimistic that Gailey has more to work with in Fitz than some of the bums he got production out of in the past.

 

I'm not looking for a Savior. But if we happen to find one cool. I just feel we have much much bigger problems on this team than QB. I don't believe in the damn the torpedoes draft and draft and draft some more a QB until we hit the lottery and find a Peyton Manning. It's not right but you spend too much time trying to figure out if the first round QB you drafted is the guy. There are broken franchises and a lot of wasted years all over the NFL from taking that approach.

 

Getting "Lucky" oh the irony aside there are many more ways to make this franchise relevant again. One sure fire way would be to stop letting our talent walk and stop signing average role players to fat new contracts.

 

What are you even talking about dude? You are the one who brought up how I said we needed a QB last year, which we clearly did.

 

Anyway...I love how your response to a post that says we struggled to move the ball on offense all year is "News flash. Trent Edwards isn't our QB anymore" LMAO...what, you think just because Fitz moves the ball better than Trent that it somehow magically means we are effective and consistent at moving the ball? That logic is so ridiculous I dont even know why you waste time even posting this gibberish.

 

 

 

YES, Fitz is better than Trent...NO ONE ON THIS ENTIRE BOARD DISPUTES THAT ANY WHERE. That however does NOT mean Fitz is good enough just because he is better than one of the 10 worst QB's in the entire NFL.

 

There is no amount of illogical statements you can proivide that will change the fact that our offense struggled to move the ball this year a majority of the time. But I am sure you will try...

 

 

 

EXACTLY!

 

 

I think we moved it quite well when they let it fly most of the time. That being said you do well state that the "offense" had trouble moving the ball. How much of the offense is attributable to the QB vs the o-line vs the WR vs the RBs vs the TEs vs the coaches vs the play calling. You get my point. Again football is a team sport I think it is incredibly illogical to blame the faults of the offense on one of its better performers. That is just crazy.

 

No Fitz is not Manning. Get over it. He is however a QB that can contribute greatly to a winning team.

Edited March 25, 2011 by PDaDdy

[JohnC]

Luck never said he was coming out this year. He got all the attention because he was the best QB in college this year.

 

Luck didn't firmly make a decision until after the season. The consensus was that he would be not only the best qb but also the first pick in the draft if he came out. That was also a factor for all the attention he garnered.

 

"Buzz" for a college QB doesn't just come after a player declares-it ahppens all season long. Only when the season ended and Gabbert declared did anyone write about this kid (scouts don't create "buzz"-the media does). Gabbert had a better sophomore year than junior, yet he still was off the radar until luck decided to stay in school.

 

The scouts are rating Gabbert one or two qb in this draft. Forget about the noise coming from the media. He will be a first round pick and be one of the top two qbs taken in this draft. The media won't be making his selection; a front office will be making their selection based on their own evaluation.

Edited March 25, 2011 by JohnC

[PDaDdy]

PS: Funny thing is, I see so many of the posters who were arguing until they were blue in the face that we didnt need a QB becuase we had Trent now literally criticizing the coaching staff for giving the starting job to Trent even though they kept arguing how he earned it in preseason...classic TSW.

 

Many of those same people are now getting their panties in a wad if you think we still need a better QB than Fitz.

 

By the way. I actually agree with you on this. Sometimes we only comment on what we don't agree on and forget to also mention what we do agree on. I didn't think Trent was the guy either. We only differed in that I didn't want to spend the #9 pick last year on a QB. I was desperate to get anyone in here to compete with Edwards and to be honest I wasn't that impressed with Fitz. This year changed my mind and I now believe Fitz is very serviceable but not elite.

 

Our argument last year was regarding getting an offensive tackle vs a QB first not if we needed a QB. In my opinion LT is even more so a bigger need than QB because Fitz showed some of what he can do as the actual starter not just a guy filling in.

 

Everyone talked about how Bell needed to be given time etc. Well another year down and I am still not impressed. In many respects we have the same philosophy but about different positions. We need to stop getting by on the cheap and get some real talent in here at BOTH ends of the line. Maybe somebody we have on the roster steps up. Maybe they get beaten out by new blood. What we have now in my opinion is not working. We get nothing to the outside and only have one RB who is even remotely a between the tackles runner.

Edited March 25, 2011 by PDaDdy

[Direhard Fan]

Please We all know it's about "D" fence. Who was in the super bowl this year? Bress, Brady or Manning?? Lets work on the "D" and let the offense have the ball more.

[thebandit27]

I don't need to pat myself on the back. But now that you mention it my question must be incredibly clever. I must have brilliantly asked a question that was so to the point hat nobody can answer with a simple yes or no question and instead write paragraphs about the question itself while never answering it.

 

I'm not getting involved in this tet-a-tet here, but I'll tell you that nobody will answer your question for this reason: I think people can tell that you're trying to assert a point, not asking an honest question. No disrespect meant, but this isn't a poker game, and you don't need to disguise your opinion as a thinly-veiled trap that you're waiting to spring on the first unsuspecting taker. If you have a point to make, then go ahead and make it, you don't need anyone's approval to do so.

 

The question itself, I believe, is totally irrelevant to the point that (I assume) you're making. If you want to insinuate that the draft value of Newton and Gabbert would be diminished with the addition of Luck, then come right out and opine, that's the purpose of this board. I fail to see how it makes a difference what anyone else would feel about it...

 

Please We all know it's about "D" fence. Who was in the super bowl this year? Bress, Brady or Manning?? Lets work on the "D" and let the offense have the ball more.

 

I understand that Green Bay and Pittsburgh have great defenses, but this is a pretty poor argument here considering that the 2 superbowl QBs ranked 3rd and 5th in the NFL in QB rating and 2nd and 3rd in the possibly-more-important YPA stat...that doesn't exactly support your statement.

[DreReed83]

Regardless of what he's done this year, he's been a career back up QB. Tyler Thigpen always has been and always will be a backup QB. THis is all Chan's doing. If he can make a backup QB look that good, just imagine what he can do with a QB who isn't a back up QB. Fitz is a phenomenol temp QB but not our franchise QB.

[Bill from NYC]

I keep seeing posters on this board use the comments and so called "endorsements" made about Fitz by our coaches and FO to defend Fitz as if to say the doubters are wrong because the people who matter (FO and coaches) believe in him. I find this puzzling, because a little common sense would tell you just the opposite is true in what they have publicly said many times.

 

1. FO/Coaches - They have said they love him as their QB, then follow it up with he is getting up there in age and they need to find a "10 year" guy who can be the man here for a decade.

 

2. Fitz is only 28 - When have you ever seen a franchise looking to replace a QB they believe in because he was too old at 28 years of age? He is young enough to be the man for 8 to 10 years in todays NFL if they really thought he was the guy they wanted to build this team around.

 

3. Why would a franchise so devoid of talent at so many key positions seriously consider using a high pick on a QB if the 28 year old QB on there roster was a guy they felt they could rebuild a team around?

 

In comparison, Aaron Rodgers is 27, does anyone actually think GB will be looking for a better long term solution after the 2011-2012 season is done because he is 28 years old? Do you think they would even consider for a second taking a QB in the first round if they had the #3 pick in the draft that year?

 

IMO, this might be the worst argument in any defense of Fitz...I am sure they see him as a great guy to run things until the prospect is ready to take his job, but clearly they are not ready to rebuild this team around him based on their comments and are not nearly as enamored with his season as some people around here.

 

I would be fine with Newton AD, but disagree with the premise of your post. If the Bills draft a QB at #3 It will be because Ralph wants to sell tickets, just like the Spiller selection.

To downplay the amount of say Mr. Wilson has in round 1 is a mistake imo. He seemed to have given Levy lots of room , but not any more. Cash is king and Mr. Wilson wants to (and will imo) put fannies in the seats.

[PDaDdy]

I'm not getting involved in this tet-a-tet here, but I'll tell you that nobody will answer your question for this reason: I think people can tell that you're trying to assert a point, not asking an honest question. No disrespect meant, but this isn't a poker game, and you don't need to disguise your opinion as a thinly-veiled trap that you're waiting to spring on the first unsuspecting taker. If you have a point to make, then go ahead and make it, you don't need anyone's approval to do so.

 

The question itself, I believe, is totally irrelevant to the point that (I assume) you're making. If you want to insinuate that the draft value of Newton and Gabbert would be diminished with the addition of Luck, then come right out and opine, that's the purpose of this board. I fail to see how it makes a difference what anyone else would feel about it...

 

You can't have a hidden agenda if you make it clear to everyone as I have in my posts I want to know people's honest yes or no answer. It's really that simple. Not for my benefit but to cause them to think about their support of Newton or Gabbert at the #3 pick which is an indictment of Fitz.

 

I'm not looking for satisfaction from others in the answer to say I told you so. I already told them so. Some forum posters with internet muscles would rather die than admit that they could be wrong even when presented with a logical valid argument. The question is relevant and there is no hidden meaning behind it. THERE IS NO WRONG ANSWER!

 

I DO however take great satisfaction in asking a simple question in a discussion/argument that people can't answer. It is the closest you will ever get to an admission of defeat on an internet forum. If you can't answer a simple yes or no query with a simple yes or no answer you don't know what you are talking about or you really don't feel strongly about something that you argue so strongly over.

Edited March 25, 2011 by PDaDdy

[Mr. WEO]

Luck didn't firmly make a decision until after the season. The consensus was that he would be not only the best qb but also the first pick in the draft if he came out. That was also a factor for all the attention he garnered.

 

 

 

The scouts are rating Gabbert one or two qb in this draft. Forget about the noise coming from the media. He will be a first round pick and be one of the top two qbs taken in this draft. The media won't be making his selection; a front office will be making their selection based on their own evaluation.

So what, neither did Gabbert, but I don't remember him ever being the discussion with Luck, even Mallet or Locker.

 

It's no secret Gabbert will be a top 2 QB.

 

Scouts also touted one JP Losman as a first round pick.

[Alphadawg7]

I would be fine with Newton AD, but disagree with the premise of your post. If the Bills draft a QB at #3 It will be because Ralph wants to sell tickets, just like the Spiller selection.

To downplay the amount of say Mr. Wilson has in round 1 is a mistake imo. He seemed to have given Levy lots of room , but not any more. Cash is king and Mr. Wilson wants to (and will imo) put fannies in the seats.

 

I hear what you are saying, I think there is actually some truth in that, but not just to sell tickets. I think Wilson understands the fan base is highly dissatisfied with teams ability to stabilize the QB position and the team since Kelly left. I also dont think Spiller was chosen to sell tickets, Gailey was enamored with him and that type of player from early on and didnt really make a big secret about it.

 

I do agree that they may see one of the top QB's as a double bonus...a prospect who could both become a true franchise guy while at the same time and appealing to the fan base. But teams take QB's top 5 every single year, so to just say its only for ticket sales when our current QB was ranked near the bottom in almost every important QB statistic is a bit of reach.

[1billsfan]

I hear what you are saying, I think there is actually some truth in that, but not just to sell tickets. I think Wilson understands the fan base is highly dissatisfied with teams ability to stabilize the QB position and the team since Kelly left. I also dont think Spiller was chosen to sell tickets, Gailey was enamored with him and that type of player from early on and didnt really make a big secret about it.

 

I do agree that they may see one of the top QB's as a double bonus...a prospect who could both become a true franchise guy while at the same time and appealing to the fan base. But teams take QB's top 5 every single year, so to just say its only for ticket sales when our current QB was ranked near the bottom in almost every important QB statistic is a bit of reach.

 

"when our current QB was ranked near the bottom in almost every important QB statistic is a bit of reach."

 

Seriously, please stop with that near the bottom bs you're trying desperately to propagate...

 

10th in TD%

10th in Sack%

15th in TDs (13 games)

16th Yards per game

17th Yards per catch

21st in Completions (13 games)

22nd in Yards (13 games)

 

Given that he only played in 13 games, he would have moved those last two "bottom stats" him to the middle of the pack if he had played in three extra games. Fitzpatrick managed these respectable stats on a team that ranked near last on defense, near last on getting turnovers and near last in having any semblance of a running game. He improved his QB rating by 12 points in 2010. We know you think he's our biggest problem, but at least be fair to him by not making <stuff> up and presenting it as fact.

[Alphadawg7]

"when our current QB was ranked near the bottom in almost every important QB statistic is a bit of reach."

 

Seriously, please stop with that near the bottom bs you're trying desperately to propagate...

 

10th in TD%

10th in Sack%

15th in TDs (13 games)

16th Yards per game

17th Yards per catch

21st in Completions (13 games)

22nd in Yards (13 games)

 

Given that he only played in 13 games, he would have moved those last two "bottom stats" him to the middle of the pack if he had played in three extra games. Fitzpatrick managed these respectable stats on a team that ranked near last on defense, near last on getting turnovers and near last in having any semblance of a running game. He improved his QB rating by 12 points in 2010. We know you think he's our biggest problem, but at least be fair to him by not making <stuff> up and presenting it as fact.

 

LMAO...Like I said, the important categories to correctly analyze a QB's play and what coaches hold the highest...like comp %, YPA, 3rd %, Turnovers, QB Rating, and scores. Of course you left most of those off your list and only add the ones that are greatly enhanced by the sheer number of pass attempts he had and his TD total, which again, is all you ever focus on because its all you have.

 

Hell, if you give me enough attempts I could lead the league in completions.

 

Just stop trying to spin his total to look like he did better than he did...keep that in the other thread where you have tried to twist and spin everything you can.

 

And enough with the defense excuse to validate Fitz poor showings. The lousy D is not why Fitz struggles to accurately throw a screen pass...its not why he was 9th in the league in INTS (and he was very lucky it wasnt higher with so many dropped INTs), its not why he over throws or under throws recievers, its not why he fumbles, its not why he too often doesnt hit the reciever in stride so they can make a play...etc etc. Just like its not the D's fault SJ dropped the game winner and several other passes.

 

Sure, the D blew and that contributed to this teams record...but the offensive execution is not the D's fault, so quit blaming it in your excuses for Fitz struggles.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Alphadawg7

[1billsfan]

LMAO...Like I said, the important categories to correctly analyze a QB's play and what coaches hold the highest...like comp %, YPA, 3rd %, Turnovers, QB Rating, and scores. Of course you left most of those off your list and only add the ones that are greatly enhnaced by the sheer number of pass attempts he had and his TD total, which again, is all you ever focus on because its all you have.

 

Hell, if you give me enough attempts I could lead the league in completions.

 

Just stop trying to spin his total to look like he did better than he did...keep that in the other thread where you have tried to twist and spin everything you can.

 

 

You were wrong. Accept it and move on.

[Alphadawg7]

You were wrong. Accept it and move on.

 

Hahahaha...you are priceless. Nice try We will just have to agree to disagree, because you either really dont know what people hold in high regard when evaluating a QB or you will just say anything to get people to support your man crush. Either way, we already had our discussion in another thread, no need to relive it here.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Alphadawg7

[downunderbill]

Gailey seems to be the kind of man that says what he thinks. Over evaluating everything he says to find a basis for your argument is pointless. No one on this board is in a position to speak for him, or anyone in the front office for that matter, or translate his feelings for others.

 

Their feelings about Fitzpatrick is written plain as day in todays sports xchange post on TBD's front page. To quote Chan directly "WE ALL BELIEVE IN HIM",the coaches, the players believe in him. even if alphadawg doesn't.

 

It seems having a high pick puts them in a spot on this issue. they will consider every position because they might not be in this position again, knowing that the Bills are not good enough to bypass any position. That goes without saying when you are picking 3rd in the draft.

 

Most on TBD seems to think that you can't win a championship with Fitz at the helm, yet To Quote Gailey again "I think we can win a championship with him.". You tend believe in a player you think can win a championship with. Have you known Gailey to shoot the s***?

 

So to answer the question the title asks. IMO yes.

[Alphadawg7]

Well, that's like your opinion dude. I don't think it's fair for you to make those assertions yet. We'll have to see what happens next season (if there is a season) before we can proclaim Fitz to be merely "stop gap starting QB." By asserting this, you are just as bad as those posters who assert that "Von Miller is the next Maybin," or "Cam Newton is the next JaMarcus Russell," or "C.J. Spiller is a bust."

 

The fact is...you just don't know this yet. You're better than that Bangarang.

 

Agreed...talking in absoulute on any topic at this point is silly. Can Fitz improve? Sure, and I really hope he does. I just want a QB. However, I am in the camp that doesnt think his cieling is much higher than what he did this year. Will Newton, Gabert, or some other QB we can take at #3 or in the 2nd be a bust? Possibly...could they become a top tier Franchise QB...possibly.

 

Nothing is set in stone...but given what we know right now, our QB position has not been good enough, we have two very powerful picks in the first and 2nd to grab a potential franchise QB, and we have no idea when we will ever get a chance at these high of picks again.

 

To me, thats a recipe to grab someone in the first or second round and let Fitz run the ship for a year or two until the prospect is ready. If we take one at #3, I doubt he would sit more than 1 year though...too much money and too much pressure to play him unless Fitz is reborn into a top 12 QB next year.

Edited March 25, 2011 by Alphadawg7

[downunderbill]

Sure, the D blew and that contributed to this teams record...but the offensive execution is not the D's fault, so quit blaming it in your excuses for Fitz struggles.

 

the OL and TE's sucked also.

[1billsfan]

Hahahaha...you are priceless. Nice try We will just have to agree to disagree, because you either really dont know what people hold in high regard when evaluating a QB or you will just say anything to get people to support your man crush. Either way, we already had our discussion in another thread, no need to relive it here.

 

 

I gave you 7 real categories, and you gave me 3 real ones. I won the argument.

 

We're cool...just stop making stuff up or you'll get called out for it.

[Alphadawg7]

Gailey seems to be the kind of man that says what he thinks. Over evaluating everything he says to find a basis for your argument is pointless. No one on this board is in a position to speak for him, or anyone in the front office for that matter, or translate his feelings for others.

 

Their feelings about Fitzpatrick is written plain as day in todays sports xchange post on TBD's front page. To quote Chan directly "WE ALL BELIEVE IN HIM",the coaches, the players believe in him. even if alphadawg doesn't.

 

It seems having a high pick puts them in a spot on this issue. they will consider every position because they might not be in this position again, knowing that the Bills are not good enough to bypass any position. That goes without saying when you are picking 3rd in the draft.

 

Most on TBD seems to think that you can't win a championship with Fitz at the helm, yet To Quote Gailey again "I think we can win a championship with him.". You tend believe in a player you think can win a championship with. Have you known Gailey to shoot the s***?

 

So to answer the question the title asks. IMO yes.

 

I see what you are saying, but how does that make sense? If you believe your 28 year old QB can win a championship for you on a team devoid of talent at so many places, why would you consider drafting a QB at #3? The goal is to win a championship, so if your guy is good enough to do so, why draft a QB at #3, give him a massively larger contract than the guy you already have, have no idea if he will pan out in the NFL, and fail to improve the other holes on your team.

 

To me, its much more likely they are just trying to keep Fitz and the teams spirits high with all the buzz about us liking so many QB's, Wilsons public declaration that we need a QB, and the FO/Coaches saying they want to find a "10 year" guy when there existing QB is only 28.

 

Not to mention, what you just said doesnt add up in terms of you saying because we pick #3 it puts in a "spot" to look hard at a QB at #3. Well what about the 2nd? We very well, and maybe more likely, take a QB at the top of the 2nd where we are not in a "spot" where we have to take a QB as its the 35th pick in the draft, not the 3rd.

 

the OL and TE's sucked also.

 

Very true...this I totally agree with. I do hope that our younger guys step up in both the OL and TE this year, or we add someone via FA or the draft. These areas need to be improved.

 

I gave you 7 real categories, and you gave me 3 real ones. I won the argument.

 

We're cool...just stop making stuff up or you'll get called out for it.

 

LOL...

 

For the record, I didnt make anything up, you chose to take different categories that were not the ones I was discussing to try and twist it. Everyone knows the key categories QB's are judged on the most, you are just tring to manipulate it to defend your boy.

 

All good though...agree to disagree and move on.