Pro Football Weekly

[sirebors]

No thanks...

http://www.profootba...1-mock-draft-10

 

and No Thanks...

http://www.profootba...ite-sack-artist

 

 

but maybe...

http://www.profootba...to-expectations

 

 

But I still want Dareus or Quinn.

Edited February 11, 2011 by sirebors

[GOBILLS78]

Stopped reading after "average pass rush."

[Dr. Fong]

No thanks...

http://www.profootba...1-mock-draft-10

 

 

3. Buffalo Bills

Patrick Peterson | CB | LSU [Jr.]

Could make an average pass rush look better, bring playmaking return skills.

 

Boy have they got that ass backwards.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

But I still want Dareus or Quinn.

 

This and no Bowers, but Quinn first.

[boyst]

3. Buffalo Bills

Patrick Peterson | CB | LSU [Jr.]

Could make an average pass rush look better, bring playmaking return skills.

 

Boy have they got that ass backwards.

I like Prince a little more and have said many times that I think it might not be a bad idea to bring in a CB. Prince has the size to match up well against the top notch WR's in the AFCE and is physical enough to give Welker a headache - something people are finally realizing they need to do.

 

My reason for wanting the CB? We have some good guys at DT and those guys can be a dime a dozen. I think we can get a good rotation created with what we have, Troup, Williams, Edwards, Stroud, Carrington, Johnson and one guy I really am curous about Heard. We have enough there that I think we can get results. If we do not find a top notch LB then I say we go CB. I do not know if #3 will have a worthy DL.

[NewEra]

I like Prince a little more and have said many times that I think it might not be a bad idea to bring in a CB. Prince has the size to match up well against the top notch WR's in the AFCE and is physical enough to give Welker a headache - something people are finally realizing they need to do.

 

My reason for wanting the CB? We have some good guys at DT and those guys can be a dime a dozen. I think we can get a good rotation created with what we have, Troup, Williams, Edwards, Stroud, Carrington, Johnson and one guy I really am curous about Heard. We have enough there that I think we can get results. If we do not find a top notch LB then I say we go CB. I do not know if #3 will have a worthy DL.

 

I agree to a point. While i think we have SOME talent on the dl, we need to add another piece, but I don't think dareus or bowers are worth the 3rd pick. I'd rather have prince than either of them, but I think I'd rather have miller or Quinn over prince. Quinn def scares me having a year off, but we need another olb, bad. Those that say moats and merriman are gonna fill it, I think it's wishful thinking. With our luck, we should be praying that one of them pans out.

[DanInUticaTampa]

fairly at 6 sure is odd. Haven't seen him go past 2 in any mock.

[boyst]

I agree to a point. While i think we have SOME talent on the dl, we need to add another piece, but I don't think dareus or bowers are worth the 3rd pick. I'd rather have prince than either of them, but I think I'd rather have miller or Quinn over prince. Quinn def scares me having a year off, but we need another olb, bad. Those that say moats and merriman are gonna fill it, I think it's wishful thinking. With our luck, we should be praying that one of them pans out.

I think a FA OLB can contribute more to our team then a rookie. Part of our problem on defense is that we have a weak identity. It sure looks like we have leaders, Whitner is actually one of them. An experienced OLB with some sort of track record could help us more then any rookie OLB. Don't be surprised when we go for Prince or Peterson.

[jahnyc]

After Williams, I think our DTs are terrible. Troup played poorly (yes, I know he was a rookie) and there is not much else at the position for the Bills with Stroud moving to end.

 

Our defense was horrible last year, and I don't think the problem was in the secondary. That leaves the linebackers and the line, and it was a combination of poor play from both that led to our dismal defensive play this past season. Clearly, we need upgrades at DE, DT, ILB and OLB, and the Maybin pick has really hurt the team. Hopefully, Merriman will be healthy next season and that will be one less positional need.

[Nanker]

No thanks...

http://www.profootba...1-mock-draft-10

 

and No Thanks...

http://www.profootba...ite-sack-artist

 

 

but maybe...

http://www.profootba...to-expectations

 

 

But I still want Dareus or Quinn.

 

Well no one on PFW is taking Quinn in the entire first round.

[BuffaloBillsMagic1]

After Williams, I think our DTs are terrible. Troup played poorly (yes, I know he was a rookie) and there is not much else at the position for the Bills with Stroud moving to end.

 

Our defense was horrible last year, and I don't think the problem was in the secondary. That leaves the linebackers and the line, and it was a combination of poor play from both that led to our dismal defensive play this past season. Clearly, we need upgrades at DE, DT, ILB and OLB, and the Maybin pick has really hurt the team. Hopefully, Merriman will be healthy next season and that will be one less positional need.

I agree and I also feel Kelsay, Spencer Johnson, Stroud, McCargo and our other band of renouns at DL and LB, other than Troup, Williams and Carrington will not get any better as the years go on. They are what they are. Troup and Carrington did not show they had a great uposide as well from what I have seen so we do need more talent on DL and LB slots to try and sop the run. A biggger strong saftey would also help.

[KD in CA]

You don't help your pass rush by drafting a CB just like you don't help your OL by drafting a RB. You help them by drafting pass rushers and blockers.

 

[Thoner7]

Trade back if possible regardless of who is available. If we cant Ill take Bowers please. Him or Fairly. If they are both Gone take Dareus.

 

Miller is a huge bust in the making and Peterson will be a letdown at CB, probably finding his home as an average safety in 3-4 years.

 

My prediction is the Bills take Miller or the Nebraska CB Ndamadookie. Whoever we do take will be a bust, just like our last 10 top picks.

[jumbalaya]

I like Prince a little more and have said many times that I think it might not be a bad idea to bring in a CB. Prince has the size to match up well against the top notch WR's in the AFCE and is physical enough to give Welker a headache - something people are finally realizing they need to do.

 

My reason for wanting the CB? We have some good guys at DT and those guys can be a dime a dozen. I think we can get a good rotation created with what we have, Troup, Williams, Edwards, Stroud, Carrington, Johnson and one guy I really am curous about Heard. We have enough there that I think we can get results. If we do not find a top notch LB then I say we go CB. I do not know if #3 will have a worthy DL.

The only way we can CB in the first is if we pick up Miami's NT or someone like him. PS, Shaun Rogers is not like him. We have good guys at DT is BS. We have guys that have no forward push and cannot stop the run even if Troup improves to an average player. We are too light and too weak.

[Dr. Fong]

 

 

My reason for wanting the CB? We have some good guys at DT and those guys can be a dime a dozen. I think we can get a good rotation created with what we have, Troup, Williams, Edwards, Stroud, Carrington,

 

 

DTs are NOT a dime a dozen in the NFL. They are the building blocks to great defenses. The Bills don't have anything like a good rotation. They also are in need of a pass rushing DE. When running a 3-4 you need a LARGE run stuffing DT and a DE that can get after the QB. We have neither. Great defensive lines make CBs look better, not the other way around.

[Astrobot]

3. Buffalo Bills

Patrick Peterson | CB | LSU [Jr.]

Could make an average pass rush look better, bring playmaking return skills.

 

Boy have they got that ass backwards.

Agree. One of the head honchos at DraftTek doesn't see PP even in the first 5:

 

"...I'm just not as in love with [Peterson] as everyone else honestly. That coupled with CB not being a position where there is typically a 'premium' placed on it makes it hard for me to project him in the top 5 at all honestly. Fox has said that they [Denver] are planning on moving to a 4-3 over the long haul and they don't really have many pieces for that so I figured BPA defense [he thinks Bowers] would be the best route. Ayers and Bowers (with Dumervil as a 3rd down option) would give them good bookends and would help mask the secondary some. Goodman is still a solid starter, Jones is a great nickel and between Cox and Thompson (one of them will break through their off-field stuff...right?). I think they will be ok in the short term. I also think that CB is one of the deeper positions in this draft while I don't really like DE after the first round. I do think they are in good position to trade down come draft day though; if Newton continues riding this wave, there could be a team wanting to jump Buffalo badly to get him. I also don't think Fairley will wind up at 1 in the end (still have no idea who it will be) and he would be the pick if that was the case."

[boyst]

DTs are NOT a dime a dozen in the NFL. They are the building blocks to great defenses. The Bills don't have anything like a good rotation. They also are in need of a pass rushing DE. When running a 3-4 you need a LARGE run stuffing DT and a DE that can get after the QB. We have neither. Great defensive lines make CBs look better, not the other way around.

I feel your frustration between the lines, not at me but in general. The great ones are not a dime-a-dozen, but for the most part, the B-class and C-class are, and that is, at best, what we and several other teams have. I have never been a big fan of spending high draft picks on the DL because too often these guys don't pan out and when they do they take the career path of a shooting star. I really want a good DT or DE in here but I cannot fathom the idea of spending the 3rd pick on one of them, there are just too many questions surrounding them. Peterson or Amukarama are both NFL calibre and able to contribute.

[Thoner7]

I feel your frustration between the lines, not at me but in general. The great ones are not a dime-a-dozen, but for the most part, the B-class and C-class are, and that is, at best, what we and several other teams have. I have never been a big fan of spending high draft picks on the DL because too often these guys don't pan out and when they do they take the career path of a shooting star. I really want a good DT or DE in here but I cannot fathom the idea of spending the 3rd pick on one of them, there are just too many questions surrounding them. Peterson or Amukarama are both NFL calibre and able to contribute.

Im sorry man but I think you are off here. the distance from an A Dlineman and a B Dlineman is much greater than at DB. That is because the NFL has fundamentally changed the rules as to what a DB is even allowed to do. I watched Revis allow catched after catch after catch this year despite being the est CB in the game by most in most peoples opinion. Now figure that a guy like K Williams was completely unblockable at times and single handedly kept us in that Pittsburg game, while Troup was a big nothing most of the year.

 

My point is the rules do not allow CBs to do much, so a great corner wont be able to cover the same way a bad corner wont be able to. But a top Dline guy is still unblockable and a B rate guy is just another guy.

 

The O and D line are where the true talent of the football team is (and QB too).

Edited February 11, 2011 by Thoner7

[R. Rich]

I have never been a big fan of spending high draft picks on the DL because too often these guys don't pan out and when they do they take the career path of a shooting star.

 

 

Just by looking @ the top 10 picks of the past ten years, here's the D linemen that were chosen:

 

2001

Gerard Warren (3rd)

Justin Smith (4th)

RICHard Seymour (6th)

Andre Carter (7th)

Jamal Reynolds (10th)

 

Warren and Carter, while not all pros, have carved out steady careers in the league. Smith has really blossomed in San Fran's 3-4 scheme. Seymour was as pivotal to the Pats' Super Bowl as Vinatieri and Brady, in my opinion. That defense just wasn't anywhere close to as good w/out 'em (remember the year he was injured and how poorly they played?). Reynolds had trouble staying healthy early on and never really rebounded.

 

2002

Julius Peppers (2nd)

Ryan Sims (6th)

John Henderson (9th)

 

A rough year, to be sure. I was so relieved when Detroit snagged Joey Harrington, thinking the Bills were going to get the pick right. Maybe not. Anyhoo, Peppers is one of the best pass rushers of his era, and Henderson was, @ one time, quite a formidable interior lineman when teamed w/ Marcus Stroud. Sims is another one of those journeyman linemen who has hung 'round and contributed in KC and Tampa.

 

2003

Dewayne Robertson (4th)

Johnathan Sullivan (6th)

Kevin Williams (9th)

Terrell Suggs (10th)

 

Robertson was a big(!) disappointment in NYC and didn't do much in Denver either. Sullivan was a flat out bust after washing out in 'Nawlins and then w/ the Pats. Williams is maybe the most complete interior D lineman in the league and while Suggs was a DE in college, he has spent the majority of his career @ LB though he does do a lot of rushing off the line.

 

2004-2005: No D linemen selected in top 10

 

2006

Mario Wiliams (1st)

 

"They should've taken Reggie Bush!" Really? Super Mario is a standout pass rusher and a two time Pro Bowl and All Pro player in his 5 years in the league. I think they did alright there.

 

2007

Gaines Adams (4th)

Jamaal Anderson (8th)

Amobi Akoye (10th)

 

Adams had a very good All-Rookie debut. His sophomore year was solid as well. Then he was traded from Tampa to Chicago and, tragically, died. He wasn't dominant, but was more than a journeyman, I think. Anderson was moved inside to tackle from end due to his ineffectiveness on the edge. Akoye has improved, but still hasn't shown that potential he flashed @ the combine, when he wowed all the scouts. He had a pretty nice rookie campaign, but then hit the wall and really didn't start to play up to his potential 'til this past year.

 

2008

Chris Long (2nd)

Glenn Dorsey (5th)

Vernon Gholston (6th)

Sedrick Ellis (7th)

Derrick Harvey (8th)

 

Like Akoye, Long has begun to play up to his potential, and he gave the Rams a pretty solid pass rusher last year (8.5 sacks). Dorsey? Well, he started off very slow, but did have his best year as a pro last year and looks to be getting it in gear now. Gholston has been a major bust for the Jets while Harvey has done little for the Jags. Ellis has a Super Bowl ring from what was his breakout season in 2009 and had another very good year this past year w/ 44 tackles and a team high 6 sacks.

 

2009

Tyson Jackson (3rd)

BJ Raji (9th)

 

Kinda early, as they've only had a couple seasons in, but Jackson has struggled to live up to the hype of being the 3rd player taken in '09. Being in the 3-4 scheme isn't helping 'em either, as it doesn't usually (yeah, yeah Bruuuuuuuce Smith being the exception to the rule and all) lend to big stats from the ends, who must occupy blockers for the OLBs and help in stopping the run. Raji is quickly becoming one of the better young D linemen in the league; great footwork, athleticism, and he's incredibly tough to deal w/ on the line.

 

2010

Ndamukong Suh (2nd)

Gerald McCoy (3rd)

Tyson Alualu (10th)

 

Suh was good enough to be named first team All Pro (an honor, these days, I think is much more relevant than just being named a Pro Bowl player) and upgraded the front seven play of the Lions exponentially. McCoy battled injuries but the Bucs believe he'll be a force. Alualu was the pick that many of the draftniks blasted as a reach, but he started all 16 games for the Jags and contributed nearly 40 tackles and 4 sacks as a rookie. Not bad.

 

 

 

 

So, while there were a number of players you could label as busts, there were plenty of others who became Pro Bowl players, All Pros, and a few who were key to their teams' Super Bowl championships. And this is just the top 10. Imagine some of the guys who escaped the top 10 (Ngata, Tommie Harris, Vince Wilfork, Tamba Hali, and Charles Grant, to name a few) who also won accolades and helped their teams win championships. I dunno if I'd shy away from drafting D linemen in the first round, whether it's an early, mid, or late pick.

[boyst]

...

So, while there were a number of players you could label as busts, there were plenty of others who became Pro Bowl players, All Pros, and a few who were key to their teams' Super Bowl championships. And this is just the top 10. Imagine some of the guys who escaped the top 10 (Ngata, Tommie Harris, Vince Wilfork, Tamba Hali, and Charles Grant, to name a few) who also won accolades and helped their teams win championships. I dunno if I'd shy away from drafting D linemen in the first round, whether it's an early, mid, or late pick.

You make a compelling argument.

[OldTimer1960]

Im sorry man but I think you are off here. the distance from an A Dlineman and a B Dlineman is much greater than at DB. That is because the NFL has fundamentally changed the rules as to what a DB is even allowed to do. I watched Revis allow catched after catch after catch this year despite being the est CB in the game by most in most peoples opinion. Now figure that a guy like K Williams was completely unblockable at times and single handedly kept us in that Pittsburg game, while Troup was a big nothing most of the year.

 

My point is the rules do not allow CBs to do much, so a great corner wont be able to cover the same way a bad corner wont be able to. But a top Dline guy is still unblockable and a B rate guy is just another guy.

 

The O and D line are where the true talent of the football team is (and QB too).

 

Way too early to give up on Troup (or any rookie). Just a couple of my recollections:

1. Eric Moulds looked like a bust after his 2nd year and he turned out OK

2. Pat Williams hardly played his first 2-3 years and then turned into a top DT

3. The Bills got Ted Washington after he washed out in Denver (or was it SF?). He

was an after-thought when the Bills signed him.

 

These are just a few examples of guys who it took a few years to get "it".

[qdawg in philly]

The only way we can CB in the first is if we pick up Miami's NT or someone like him. PS, Shaun Rogers is not like him. We have good guys at DT is BS. We have guys that have no forward push and cannot stop the run even if Troup improves to an average player. We are too light and too weak.

You're absolutely correct!!! I was preaching that all last year. They are WEAK! That's why the dline can't maintain gap control because they're pushed off the ball and out the way. Its not just getting off blocks, but being blocked completely by olines. And yes we need to be huge up front. That's were it all starts for an effective 34d

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just by looking @ the top 10 picks of the past ten years, here's the D linemen that were chosen:

<...>

So, while there were a number of players you could label as busts, there were plenty of others who became Pro Bowl players, All Pros, and a few who were key to their teams' Super Bowl championships. And this is just the top 10. Imagine some of the guys who escaped the top 10 (Ngata, Tommie Harris, Vince Wilfork, Tamba Hali, and Charles Grant, to name a few) who also won accolades and helped their teams win championships. I dunno if I'd shy away from drafting D linemen in the first round, whether it's an early, mid, or late pick.

 

This is a great post, very solid research. Thanks!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

DTs are NOT a dime a dozen in the NFL. They are the building blocks to great defenses. The Bills don't have anything like a good rotation. They also are in need of a pass rushing DE. When running a 3-4 you need a LARGE run stuffing DT and a DE that can get after the QB. We have neither. Great defensive lines make CBs look better, not the other way around.

 

What he said. See post I just made (new thread) researching DL by draft round for 10 year period.

 

Way too early to give up on Troup (or any rookie). Just a couple of my recollections:

1. Eric Moulds looked like a bust after his 2nd year and he turned out OK

2. Pat Williams hardly played his first 2-3 years and then turned into a top DT

3. The Bills got Ted Washington after he washed out in Denver (or was it SF?). He

was an after-thought when the Bills signed him.

 

These are just a few examples of guys who it took a few years to get "it".

 

For that matter, Kyle Williams would be an example of a guy who took several years to "get it".

[Chas56]

I've been reading a couple different posts this morning. This post and the one on LB by dave mcbride are really good ones. Taken together, I've changed my mind about the viability of taking a LB at #3. I still think they Bills need to go D at #3, and it should be be DL.