What happened to Ralph Wilson?

[seq004]

I remember reading an article around 1988 and I can't remember which print media it was so for obvious reasons I'm paraphrasing but it was about a friend of Ralph's that had asked him back in the mid 80's if he cared about turning his team into a winner and Ralph said something like "someday" and his friend replied why not now? He went on to open his pocket book to players that demanded the highest of salaries in the NFL. Players like Kelly, Smith, Bennett. I sent Ralph a long letter in 2002 thanking him for all he had done for the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo. The Bills had just signed Bledsoe. He or someone in his office actually wrote me back telling me what an honor it had been to own a team in western NY and it was signed by Ralph. I still have the letter, but what changed? What turned him back into the owner I watched and read about in the 1970's? I know some of you will argue he still spends money, but he doesn't want to pay top coaches or top players any longer. He has gone back to treating the Bills as a business only. The front office is poorly run again. What changed I wonder. Free agency didn't help but the fact remains if Ralph wanted a winner we would have one.

Edited January 18, 2011 by seq004

[Dr. Fong]

I think investing so much in the Donahoe years and still coming up short. Losing that game to Pittsburgh's scrubs to miss the playoffs was the knife in the back of this franchise.

[seq004]

I think investing so much in the Donahoe years and still coming up short. Losing that game to Pittsburgh's scrubs to miss the playoffs was the knife in the back of this franchise.

I totally agree on the Donahoe thing but doesn't every team have a Donahoe at some point? There's going to be hits and misses on players, coaches, and FO on every team.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

RW never really paid fo coaches and front office. He got luky though with Polian and Levy. Though I'm more inclined to think Levy was just at the right place at the right time due to the players Polian brught in. The only somewhat high paid coach he ever signed was Chuck Knox. I don't think even Levy made top $$ I don't think even TD was paid top $$ The problem seems to have been over past ten years, the decisions as to whom to sign have failed terribly. But he's paid pretty well doing it. Maybe now he's getting to the point f being gun shy, don't know. But figures he can lose just as well with cheap players as he's lost with expensive players too.

[jumbalaya]

Ralph was 94 when he did that in the 80's now at 120 he doesn't have a lot left in the tank.

Edited January 18, 2011 by jumbalaya

[The Jokeman]

I remember reading an article around 1988 and I can't remember which print media it was so for obvious reasons I'm paraphrasing but it was about a friend of Ralph's that had asked him back in the mid 80's if he cared about turning his team into a winner and Ralph said something like "someday" and his friend replied why not now? He went on to open his pocket book to players that demanded the highest of salaries in the NFL. Players like Kelly, Smith, Bennett. I sent Ralph a long letter in 2002 thanking him for all he had done for the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo. The Bills had just signed Bledsoe. He or someone in his office actually wrote me back telling me what an honor it had been to own a team in western NY and it was signed by Ralph. I still have the letter, but what changed? What turned him back into the owner I watched and read about in the 1970's? I know some of you will argue he still spends money, but he doesn't want to pay top coaches or top players any longer. He has gone back to treating the Bills as a business only. The front office is poorly run again. What changed I wonder. Free agency didn't help but the fact remains if Ralph wanted a winner we would have one.

He let go of Bill Polian, John Butler and AJ Smith. Also Tom Donahoe got fooled into thinking Willis McGahee could return to his preinjury college form.

[offsides#76FredSmerlas]

I remember reading an article around 1988 and I can't remember which print media it was so for obvious reasons I'm paraphrasing but it was about a friend of Ralph's that had asked him back in the mid 80's if he cared about turning his team into a winner and Ralph said something like "someday" and his friend replied why not now? He went on to open his pocket book to players that demanded the highest of salaries in the NFL. Players like Kelly, Smith, Bennett. I sent Ralph a long letter in 2002 thanking him for all he had done for the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo. The Bills had just signed Bledsoe. He or someone in his office actually wrote me back telling me what an honor it had been to own a team in western NY and it was signed by Ralph. I still have the letter, but what changed? What turned him back into the owner I watched and read about in the 1970's? I know some of you will argue he still spends money, but he doesn't want to pay top coaches or top players any longer. He has gone back to treating the Bills as a business only. The front office is poorly run again. What changed I wonder. Free agency didn't help but the fact remains if Ralph wanted a winner we would have one.

I'm so tired of people like yourself saying Ralph is cheap. Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith were drafted and he paid them because they performed. The reason it looks like he doesn't pay free agents is because no free agent wants to come here. Free agents want to join winners or teams that are in warm weathered cities and not worn down pit holes like Buffalo. I spent 27 years in Buffalo and it doesn't have much to offer other than great people. The bottom line is the Bills drafted well in the 80's and because we had a good nucleus of players "thank you Polian/Butler" other players who were free agents wanted to play here. Bryce Paup, James Loften, and guys like Sam Adams wanted to come to Buffalo because they knew we had a team that could compete. Ralph Wilson will pay guys to come here but you can't force them to come when you are not winning. Also, as far as coaching goes: there were many years when Ralph went after the top coordinator such as Mike Mularkey and Greg williams. Is it his fault they couldn't get the job done? He also had guys like Wade Phillips and Chuck Knox who were coaches who had previous success. By the way this year he tried and went after all the big names, Gruden, Cowher, Shanahan, etc... Insiders were saying RW would have spent the bank to get one of them but guess what "they didn't want to come to a team with no talent". THE CURE------>start drafting better and Ralph will pay for all the missing pieces.

[wonderbread]

Ralph was 94 when he did that in the 80's now at 120 he doesn't have a lot left in the tank.

zing.

[whateverdude]

I'm so tired of people like yourself saying Ralph is cheap. Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith were drafted and he paid them because they performed. The reason it looks like he doesn't pay free agents is because no free agent wants to come here. Free agents want to join winners or teams that are in warm weathered cities and not worn down pit holes like Buffalo. I spent 27 years in Buffalo and it doesn't have much to offer other than great people. The bottom line is the Bills drafted well in the 80's and because we had a good nucleus of players "thank you Polian/Butler" other players who were free agents wanted to play here. Bryce Paup, James Loften, and guys like Sam Adams wanted to come to Buffalo because they knew we had a team that could compete. Ralph Wilson will pay guys to come here but you can't force them to come when you are not winning. Also, as far as coaching goes: there were many years when Ralph went after the top coordinator such as Mike Mularkey and Greg williams. Is it his fault they couldn't get the job done? He also had guys like Wade Phillips and Chuck Knox who were coaches who had previous success. By the way this year he tried and went after all the big names, Gruden, Cowher, Shanahan, etc... Insiders were saying RW would have spent the bank to get one of them but guess what "they didn't want to come to a team with no talent". THE CURE------>start drafting better and Ralph will pay for all the missing pieces.

Have you visited PITTSburgh lately. I think they filmed the TV series "The Walking Dead" there and no one noticed.

[seq004]

I'm so tired of people like yourself saying Ralph is cheap. Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith were drafted and he paid them because they performed. The reason it looks like he doesn't pay free agents is because no free agent wants to come here. Free agents want to join winners or teams that are in warm weathered cities and not worn down pit holes like Buffalo. I spent 27 years in Buffalo and it doesn't have much to offer other than great people. The bottom line is the Bills drafted well in the 80's and because we had a good nucleus of players "thank you Polian/Butler" other players who were free agents wanted to play here. Bryce Paup, James Loften, and guys like Sam Adams wanted to come to Buffalo because they knew we had a team that could compete. Ralph Wilson will pay guys to come here but you can't force them to come when you are not winning. Also, as far as coaching goes: there were many years when Ralph went after the top coordinator such as Mike Mularkey and Greg williams. Is it his fault they couldn't get the job done? He also had guys like Wade Phillips and Chuck Knox who were coaches who had previous success. By the way this year he tried and went after all the big names, Gruden, Cowher, Shanahan, etc... Insiders were saying RW would have spent the bank to get one of them but guess what "they didn't want to come to a team with no talent". THE CURE------>start drafting better and Ralph will pay for all the missing pieces.

I'm so tired of people like you not getting your facts straight. First of all I respect Mr Wilson for keeping the Bills in Buffalo but he has plenty of faults. He didn't "pay Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith because they performed' not at first. He gave Jim Kelly the highest contract of any NFL player at that time in 1986 to come to Buffalo from Houston from the defunct USFL. He paid Bruce Smith BEFORE the Bills even drafted him. Buffalo is NOT a shithole and I'm tired of idiots like you using that as an excuse. Players want to play for a WINNER. The Bills are not WINNERS! They want to play for great organizations. Go to Pittsburgh. Its not South beach. Its NOT a great city. Go to Green Bay. Bad. These teams play in very small markets yet they win because of the organization. Solid front office. Solid coaches. Ralph DOESN'T pay for that, rarely. Big names don't want to come because Ralph will not open his wallet to pay for asst and free agents. Thats why Shanny and Cower said no.Yeah you have to draft well, so what did he do with the one guy who drafted extremely well for Bills? Go ask the Colts who are in the playoffs every year.

Edited January 19, 2011 by seq004

[jr1]

The Bills have only been good about 25 percent of the time since they were founded

[Bzee]

The Bills have only been good about 25 percent of the time since they were founded

That's the best statistic I've read here on this board...

[RunOJRun]

I'm so tired of people like yourself saying Ralph is cheap. Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith were drafted and he paid them because they performed. The reason it looks like he doesn't pay free agents is because no free agent wants to come here. Free agents want to join winners or teams that are in warm weathered cities and not worn down pit holes like Buffalo. I spent 27 years in Buffalo and it doesn't have much to offer other than great people. The bottom line is the Bills drafted well in the 80's and because we had a good nucleus of players "thank you Polian/Butler" other players who were free agents wanted to play here. Bryce Paup, James Loften, and guys like Sam Adams wanted to come to Buffalo because they knew we had a team that could compete. Ralph Wilson will pay guys to come here but you can't force them to come when you are not winning. Also, as far as coaching goes: there were many years when Ralph went after the top coordinator such as Mike Mularkey and Greg williams. Is it his fault they couldn't get the job done? He also had guys like Wade Phillips and Chuck Knox who were coaches who had previous success. By the way this year he tried and went after all the big names, Gruden, Cowher, Shanahan, etc... Insiders were saying RW would have spent the bank to get one of them but guess what "they didn't want to come to a team with no talent". THE CURE------>start drafting better and Ralph will pay for all the missing pieces.

 

Agreed.

 

USA Today ran a chart right after last season listing 2009 player payroll for all of the NFL teams. The Bills placed 12th on the list, higher than two-thirds of that season's playoff teams (including the Pats).

 

The Bills haven't always gotten the best coaches and free agents because of the perception that the front office doesn't always make the best business decisions. Whether you're a CFO for a Fortune 500 company, a dishwasher, or a pro football player, you want to work for the best organization possible. You want bosses who make decisions which result in success, whether you define success as turning a healthy profit or winning championships.

 

For free agents, receiving top dollar isn't the only consideration. Most players want to get a ring and many are willing to take a bit less to play for a winner. LeBron James would have made more money had he signed with the Cavs, but wanted to join two other top players in a bid for championship gold. Put a salary cap in MLB and the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies will still be top choices for many players because those organizations have developed a culture of winning.

 

From losing Bill Polian to putting Russ Brandon in charge of football operations to bringing in Marv Levy as GM to seemingly countless wrongheaded draft picks, the perception is that RW doesn't make business decisions which result in fielding a winning team. If we can figure this out, it's got to be much clearer to players throughout the league.

 

Cheapness isn't Ralph Wilson's problem. His problem is that his hiring and employee retention practices run completely counter to the best practices used by most other NFL teams. He often values promoting from within over seeking the best available candidate for a job. He values loyalty over results. He seems to have developed a strong preference for hiring key personnel over the age of 60 (I get that, to a degree. I'm in my early 50's and most teens and twentysomethings I meet seem to be speaking a different language. Then again, I'm not trying to run a successful business.)

 

I'm not saying that every front office or coaching hire has been a mistake, only that the Bills seem to cast a far smaller net when looking for job candidates than most other teams.

 

I do believe that RW wants to see the team win and he'd probably relish a Bills Super Bowl victory more than anyone else. I also believe that he honestly believes that his business practices will work and honestly doesn't understand why they're not working.

 

It's not the payroll, it's not the weather, it's not city itself...after all, similar teams/cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Green Bay don't have problems attracting top playing and coaching talent. It's the front office.

[BiggieScooby]

What happened? Teams have dominant era's. The Fins had their run with Shula from the 70s to mid 80s. We took the reigns from the late 80s to 90s, then Y2K happened and we've been crap ever since. Honestly the competition caught up. Could you imagine if Payton Manning was still in our division? That's 6 guaranteed losses every season! When we lost Polian, then AJ Smith we lost the brains of our operation. No front office since has proven up to the task. From a coaching perspective they haven't been good enough, and the drafts haven't been either. It's tough to attract difference making FA's who have a choice where they're going to play when you're not a proven winner. The key to our rebuilding is that we actually follow through on the task and address the areas of weakness from the Front Office to the locker room, to the head janitor.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

We have to give Nix a few years to see if he can turn this franchise around then the free agents will come. The only way we will get FAs in here now is to overpay them and Ralph wont do that. He should do it for the right Free agent to show the rest of the league we aren't cheap , which would show a commit to winning and then good players and coaches would come here. He should have signed Vince Wilfork or Casey Hampton and other FAs would have come plus it really would have shored up a major whole on the line and maybe we wouldn't have looked like the running of the bulls in Spain.

[Griswold]

I'm so tired of people like yourself saying Ralph is cheap. Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith were drafted and he paid them because they performed. The reason it looks like he doesn't pay free agents is because no free agent wants to come here. Free agents want to join winners or teams that are in warm weathered cities and not worn down pit holes like Buffalo. I spent 27 years in Buffalo and it doesn't have much to offer other than great people. The bottom line is the Bills drafted well in the 80's and because we had a good nucleus of players "thank you Polian/Butler" other players who were free agents wanted to play here. Bryce Paup, James Loften, and guys like Sam Adams wanted to come to Buffalo because they knew we had a team that could compete. Ralph Wilson will pay guys to come here but you can't force them to come when you are not winning. Also, as far as coaching goes: there were many years when Ralph went after the top coordinator such as Mike Mularkey and Greg williams. Is it his fault they couldn't get the job done? He also had guys like Wade Phillips and Chuck Knox who were coaches who had previous success. By the way this year he tried and went after all the big names, Gruden, Cowher, Shanahan, etc... Insiders were saying RW would have spent the bank to get one of them but guess what "they didn't want to come to a team with no talent". THE CURE------>start drafting better and Ralph will pay for all the missing pieces.

 

Well said.

 

I'll emphasize for ya THE CURE------>start drafting better and Ralph will pay for all the missing pieces.

 

I'm tired of the Ralph is cheap parade. No one of quality will sign here today regardless of money offered.. that's the end story. Fix the draft.. the team improves.. then maybe people will sign here.

[coldstorage5]

Its all about the draft,Poor drafts = Poor teams.

Losman= Bust

Mccargo= Bust

Whitner= Bust

Maybin= Bust

Spiller= Bust ( little early)

 

Bust, Bust, Bust, not the good kind.

[bills_fan_in_raleigh]

That's the best statistic I've read here on this board...

And unfortunately only close to great 10% of the time.

[Bob in STL]

I remember reading an article around 1988 and I can't remember which print media it was so for obvious reasons I'm paraphrasing but it was about a friend of Ralph's that had asked him back in the mid 80's if he cared about turning his team into a winner and Ralph said something like "someday" and his friend replied why not now? He went on to open his pocket book to players that demanded the highest of salaries in the NFL. Players like Kelly, Smith, Bennett. I sent Ralph a long letter in 2002 thanking him for all he had done for the Bills and keeping them in Buffalo. The Bills had just signed Bledsoe. He or someone in his office actually wrote me back telling me what an honor it had been to own a team in western NY and it was signed by Ralph. I still have the letter, but what changed? What turned him back into the owner I watched and read about in the 1970's? I know some of you will argue he still spends money, but he doesn't want to pay top coaches or top players any longer. He has gone back to treating the Bills as a business only. The front office is poorly run again. What changed I wonder. Free agency didn't help but the fact remains if Ralph wanted a winner we would have one.

 

I think that Ralph tries to win. He tends to hire from within. He puts a high value on loyalty, or his perception of it. No matter what decade you look at, when his current regime (or inner circle) fails he looks from within first, then he looks out if he has too. He does not take a lot of chances with top names.

 

The problem with that is that he has not hired enough good football people (as in managers) over the years, and then let them strenghten the organization from within. The front office is responsible for bringing in the players and coaches, it all starts there.

 

Looking at the "modern era", Polian had a front office that contained top football people that went out and succeeded - Bob Ferguson, John Butler, AJ Smith, Buddy Nix ... all well respected and succesful in other places, came off of that family tree.

 

Bring in Donohoe and who was left to succeed him? Modrak? Guy? Brandon? Levy was brought in from retirement to do a job he did not want and did not know how to do.

 

His move to hire Donohoe was a big leap of faith for him. He turned the keys to the car over to an "unknown" and the guy did not get it done and worse than that --- Ralph thought the spirit of OBD was broken.

He should have cleaned house and started over but instead Modrak, Guy, and Brandon remained and eventually Levy was summoned. Levy had no ties to this group and he did not have any better people to work with to replace them. You all know the rest. More stagnation.

 

Even now with Nix as GM, Ralph is counting on an old relationship to run the ship.

 

Personally I am not sold on Nix as a GM. He may be a great Scout but there is much more to the GM position and Nix has a lot to prove.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Bob in STL

[mattsox]

Ralph was 94 when he did that in the 80's now at 120 he doesn't have a lot left in the tank.

 

LOL...

[Meathead]

ralph is cheap

[stony]

We have to give Nix a few years to see if he can turn this franchise around then the free agents will come. The only way we will get FAs in here now is to overpay them and Ralph wont do that. He should do it for the right Free agent to show the rest of the league we aren't cheap , which would show a commit to winning and then good players and coaches would come here. He should have signed Vince Wilfork or Casey Hampton and other FAs would have come plus it really would have shored up a major whole on the line and maybe we wouldn't have looked like the running of the bulls in Spain.

 

Really? I'm all for a signature FA signing, but let's be realistic.

[mattsox]

We have to give Nix a few years to see if he can turn this franchise around then the free agents will come. The only way we will get FAs in here now is to overpay them and Ralph wont do that. He should do it for the right Free agent to show the rest of the league we aren't cheap , which would show a commit to winning and then good players and coaches would come here. He should have signed Vince Wilfork or Casey Hampton and other FAs would have come plus it really would have shored up a major whole on the line and maybe we wouldn't have looked like the running of the bulls in Spain.

 

No we don't. I don't have to give anyone a few years. This is it. Buddy Nix is on the clock this offseason! No excuses! Lockouts be damned. Enough is enough already with this team. Buddy Nix should have a game plan just as Gailey comes up with every week. He should be prepared to come out and drastically improve this team this offseason. Enough BS about being built through the draft. EVERY TEAM Builds through the draft. If you want to be a competitive team, you go out and sign players who are impact players. You draft good players who can come in and make an immediate impact. This team doesn't have time to wait and develope talent. The way this team drafts, they can trade the Next 10 first round picks if they trade them for probowl caliber players as far as I'm concerned....

[Hplarrm]

Its all about the draft,Poor drafts = Poor teams.

Losman= Bust

Mccargo= Bust

Whitner= Bust

Maybin= Bust

Spiller= Bust ( little early)

 

Bust, Bust, Bust, not the good kind.

Its not ALL about any one thing.

 

It takes a lot of different miscues in different areas of operation to miss the playoffs for more than a decade. It comes off as simply simple to claim it is one simple thing that is the problem like the draft and ignore the toxic relationships between Ralph and a ton of underlings (Butler= walked and screwed us, Polian got canned, Phillips got fired and had to take action to get paid, Mularkey got forced out, etc), we have not played the FA game well (big bucks to Dockery and others who did not pan out), we have not managed some contracts like Peters successfully, etc.

 

It seems incorrect to claim that these miscues did not play a serious role and its ALL about draft problems (its odd also that you do not list one of the big draft miscues which was M. Williams or any of the superior examples of draft manipulation (its silly to mention the McCargo error with out also mentioning the great Williams pick at the same time and also the Peerless situation was maneuvered quite well with a draft benefit.

[Bill from NYC]

Its all about the draft,Poor drafts = Poor teams.

Losman= Bust

Mccargo= Bust

Whitner= Bust

Maybin= Bust

Spiller= Bust ( little early)

 

Bust, Bust, Bust, not the good kind.

 

McKelvin at #11?

[GG]

I don't think that anything has changed in this franchise in 50 years. The only flashes of greatness occurred when Wilson stumbled on the right guy to run the organization. Other than that, the Bills have mirrored the mercurial personality of its owner. Wilson is not cheap, nor does he not want to win. What he is though, is simply a bad manager for the business that he runs. He may be good at his other businesses (my jury is still out on that), but there are really two measures of success in running a sports franchise, one is how many trophies you accumulate, the other is how much money you make while chasing those trophies.

 

Most owners who buy sports teams are after the trophies, RW not so much. That doesn’t necessarily translate to him being cheap – just bullheaded and wrong in many of his decisions. The man who stumbled onto Polian, also ran Butler out of town because he couldn’t stomach a former military janitor having a top job in his organization. He man who didn’t recognize the GM talent that he had in AJ Smith under his nose. The man who thought he did the right thing (as did most of the world) in hiring Donahoe, completely hid in a shell after the Donahoe firing. Bringing Levy back was his usual path of least resistance, while nothing else was done to rebuild the franchise.

 

The team’s management went into a void after 2006, as Levy’s position was largely ceremonial and it obvious that there was no accountability for running the franchise at that time. Wilson fired Donahoe, but left all the pieces that TD put in place, which was a monumental mistake. Whether you want to believe it or not, but RW’s meddling in the day to day operations are real enough rumors among the coaches in the league to make them shy away from Orchard Park. The team’s perplexing personnel moves – such as free agent signings and player cuts without any notice to the coaching staff, drive a head coach crazy. Imagine being in a workplace where on a given day, without your knowledge your boss decided to fire a key employee who had done nothing wrong.

 

It’s no accident that a mediocre talent like Mularkey elected to walk away from one of the 32 most coveted jobs in USA. It’s no accident that high profile veteran coaches and rising young ones refused to interview for the Bills coaching openings.

The Bills troubles should be rightly planted at RW’s doorstep. Enjoy the yesteryear of the ‘80s-‘90s, knowing that they were the anomaly in the team’s history.

[Homey D. Clown]

I'm so tired of people like you not getting your facts straight. First of all I respect Mr Wilson for keeping the Bills in Buffalo but he has plenty of faults. He didn't "pay Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith because they performed' not at first. He gave Jim Kelly the highest contract of any NFL player at that time in 1986 to come to Buffalo from Houston from the defunct USFL. He paid Bruce Smith BEFORE the Bills even drafted him. Buffalo is NOT a shithole and I'm tired of idiots like you using that as an excuse. Players want to play for a WINNER. The Bills are not WINNERS! They want to play for great organizations. Go to Pittsburgh. Its not South beach. Its NOT a great city. Go to Green Bay. Bad. These teams play in very small markets yet they win because of the organization. Solid front office. Solid coaches. Ralph DOESN'T pay for that, rarely. Big names don't want to come because Ralph will not open his wallet to pay for asst and free agents. Thats why Shanny and Cower said no.Yeah you have to draft well, so what did he do with the one guy who drafted extremely well for Bills? Go ask the Colts who are in the playoffs every year.

 

 

I couldn't agree more with this, Buffalo is not a ****-hole, contrary to popular opinion around here... and the small market nonsense is way overplayed. Owners share profits on so many different income points, it makes the small market arguement weak at best. The WNY area does have less corporations that can invest in luxury suites and some of the advertising, and that's a fact, but by no means would that prevent a team from fielding a winner.

 

This debate boils down very simply to the owner not wanting to burden his family with debt, or very little profit once he passes, so in some cases, it is Ralph's fault, and in many others, it is poor front office decisions, but that can also be blamed on Ralph Wilson, since he will not pursue a top tier NFL front office, so as someone on here put it, BUST, BUST, BUST, and not the good kind.

[Red]

I totally agree on the Donahoe thing but doesn't every team have a Donahoe at some point? There's going to be hits and misses on players, coaches, and FO on every team.

 

 

But there is a huge difference between 1 bad FO, and 3 in a row.

 

And let's not forget that perhaps one of the worst scouting departments in the history of the Bills has been intact for 10 years now, and the man scrub in charge is still with the team.

 

I think that it's 2 things:

 

1.) Ralph is getting older, and wants (and has) to put his trust in others.

 

also

 

2.) old habits die hard.

 

The Bills "brain" trust clearly needs to see the Wizard, because they neither have a brain nor can the be trusted with building the Buffalo Bills into a contender again. I fault Modrak, Overdorf, and Littman for being the cancerous flesh still at OBD. These 3 clearly hinder any progress or improvement.

 

Gaily, Nix, and Whaley are a good, positive change.

[birdog1960]

I don't think that anything has changed in this franchise in 50 years. The only flashes of greatness occurred when Wilson stumbled on the right guy to run the organization. Other than that, the Bills have mirrored the mercurial personality of its owner. Wilson is not cheap, nor does he not want to win. What he is though, is simply a bad manager for the business that he runs. He may be good at his other businesses (my jury is still out on that), but there are really two measures of success in running a sports franchise, one is how many trophies you accumulate, the other is how much money you make while chasing those trophies.

 

Most owners who buy sports teams are after the trophies, RW not so much. That doesn’t necessarily translate to him being cheap – just bullheaded and wrong in many of his decisions. The man who stumbled onto Polian, also ran Butler out of town because he couldn’t stomach a former military janitor having a top job in his organization. He man who didn’t recognize the GM talent that he had in AJ Smith under his nose. The man who thought he did the right thing (as did most of the world) in hiring Donahoe, completely hid in a shell after the Donahoe firing. Bringing Levy back was his usual path of least resistance, while nothing else was done to rebuild the franchise.

 

The team’s management went into a void after 2006, as Levy’s position was largely ceremonial and it obvious that there was no accountability for running the franchise at that time. Wilson fired Donahoe, but left all the pieces that TD put in place, which was a monumental mistake. Whether you want to believe it or not, but RW’s meddling in the day to day operations are real enough rumors among the coaches in the league to make them shy away from Orchard Park. The team’s perplexing personnel moves – such as free agent signings and player cuts without any notice to the coaching staff, drive a head coach crazy. Imagine being in a workplace where on a given day, without your knowledge your boss decided to fire a key employee who had done nothing wrong.

 

It’s no accident that a mediocre talent like Mularkey elected to walk away from one of the 32 most coveted jobs in USA. It’s no accident that high profile veteran coaches and rising young ones refused to interview for the Bills coaching openings.

The Bills troubles should be rightly planted at RW’s doorstep. Enjoy the yesteryear of the ‘80s-‘90s, knowing that they were the anomaly in the team’s history.

sad but true

[offsides#76FredSmerlas]

I'm so tired of people like you not getting your facts straight. First of all I respect Mr Wilson for keeping the Bills in Buffalo but he has plenty of faults. He didn't "pay Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith because they performed' not at first. He gave Jim Kelly the highest contract of any NFL player at that time in 1986 to come to Buffalo from Houston from the defunct USFL. He paid Bruce Smith BEFORE the Bills even drafted him. Buffalo is NOT a shithole and I'm tired of idiots like you using that as an excuse. Players want to play for a WINNER. The Bills are not WINNERS! They want to play for great organizations. Go to Pittsburgh. Its not South beach. Its NOT a great city. Go to Green Bay. Bad. These teams play in very small markets yet they win because of the organization. Solid front office. Solid coaches. Ralph DOESN'T pay for that, rarely. Big names don't want to come because Ralph will not open his wallet to pay for asst and free agents. Thats why Shanny and Cower said no.Yeah you have to draft well, so what did he do with the one guy who drafted extremely well for Bills? Go ask the Colts who are in the playoffs every year.

Thank you in many ways for backing up what I said in my first write up. Jim Kelly had the highest QB salary in the league when he signed and Bruce Smith was signed as the highest paid defensive player. Ralph has never been a cheap owner. By the way, the Bills didn't pay for Bruce Smith before we drafted him; that's just an insane line of crap. You and I also agree that free agents want to come to a winning organization. I didn't call Buffalo a shithole, those were your words but it's not a city where most would want to live. You would have to be blind if you haven't noticed the decline of the population in Buffalo in the last 20 years. I love Buffalo because it's where I'm from and I have a lot of family and friends there but if I wasn't from Buffalo I would never in a million years move there. Now, if I was a player in the NFL and I could go to Buffalo for a few years of my life and have a shot at going to the playoffs then that's a different story. But as we know that hasn't been the case in 11 years. Pittsburgh is similar to Buffalo as a city but because their team wins, free agents will move there and play for the Steelers. You also brought up Green Bay a team that went 3 decades without winning and because they drafted well now they get free agents. Hell if you can just draft a top QB and he performs at a high level you can get players to your team. Green Bay has Aaron Rodgers and that my friend brings hope every year.

Edited January 19, 2011 by offsides#76FredSmerlas

[Bill from NYC]

I think investing so much in the Donahoe years and still coming up short. Losing that game to Pittsburgh's scrubs to miss the playoffs was the knife in the back of this franchise.

 

What was worse than Donohoe was the fact that when he fired him, he brought in an incompetent Marv Levy.

 

I think that I understand why he did that. Mr. Wilson trusts Marv, and has memories of him being a part of a winning team. Also, he properly assessed that Marv would kindle fan interest, in other words sell seats.

 

Levy was a disaster, to include his draft picks, free agent signings, and coaching staff. This is what we are fighting to purge ourselves of now. The next time you see a thread of Donte Whitner and his tweets, think Marv Levy.

[Red]

I couldn't agree more with this, Buffalo is not a ****-hole, contrary to popular opinion around here... and the small market nonsense is way overplayed. Owners share profits on so many different income points, it makes the small market arguement weak at best. The WNY area does have less corporations that can invest in luxury suites and some of the advertising, and that's a fact, but by no means would that prevent a team from fielding a winner.

 

This debate boils down very simply to the owner not wanting to burden his family with debt, or very little profit once he passes, so in some cases, it is Ralph's fault, and in many others, it is poor front office decisions, but that can also be blamed on Ralph Wilson, since he will not pursue a top tier NFL front office, so as someone on here put it, BUST, BUST, BUST, and not the good kind.

 

I could not agree more.

 

Its like the current Sabres squad...they could, and should, be making moves right now to improve the roster. But I believe that they are in a complete holding pattern until ownership changes hands and the sale is complete. As a player, I'd be mad. As a fan I'm mad. But they are holding on making any changes until the new owner comes on board and gives direction.

 

Likewise, with the Bills Ralph does not want to create a financial burden, and thus is playing it conservative and too safe to truly be effective in the NFL.

 

I could not agree more with the small market clap trap, either.

 

Green Bay is not a large market. Cleveland is not a large market. I can't imagine that KC is a large market. JAcksonville is not. Neither is Cincinnati. Yet how often do we hear these teams constantly crying about market status, other than in owners meetings?

 

Success begets success. If we had a better Director of Scouting and Scouting department, we could actually be producing players who contribute and build off of the draft. Instead, we are left chasing our proverbial tails every year because we won't spend money on free agents AND draft worth a flaming turd because Modrak stinks!

[fmr60]

Agreed.

 

USA Today ran a chart right after last season listing 2009 player payroll for all of the NFL teams. The Bills placed 12th on the list, higher than two-thirds of that season's playoff teams (including the Pats).

 

The Bills haven't always gotten the best coaches and free agents because of the perception that the front office doesn't always make the best business decisions. Whether you're a CFO for a Fortune 500 company, a dishwasher, or a pro football player, you want to work for the best organization possible. You want bosses who make decisions which result in success, whether you define success as turning a healthy profit or winning championships.

 

For free agents, receiving top dollar isn't the only consideration. Most players want to get a ring and many are willing to take a bit less to play for a winner. LeBron James would have made more money had he signed with the Cavs, but wanted to join two other top players in a bid for championship gold. Put a salary cap in MLB and the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies will still be top choices for many players because those organizations have developed a culture of winning.

 

From losing Bill Polian to putting Russ Brandon in charge of football operations to bringing in Marv Levy as GM to seemingly countless wrongheaded draft picks, the perception is that RW doesn't make business decisions which result in fielding a winning team. If we can figure this out, it's got to be much clearer to players throughout the league.

 

Cheapness isn't Ralph Wilson's problem. His problem is that his hiring and employee retention practices run completely counter to the best practices used by most other NFL teams. He often values promoting from within over seeking the best available candidate for a job. He values loyalty over results. He seems to have developed a strong preference for hiring key personnel over the age of 60 (I get that, to a degree. I'm in my early 50's and most teens and twentysomethings I meet seem to be speaking a different language. Then again, I'm not trying to run a successful business.)

 

I'm not saying that every front office or coaching hire has been a mistake, only that the Bills seem to cast a far smaller net when looking for job candidates than most other teams.

 

I do believe that RW wants to see the team win and he'd probably relish a Bills Super Bowl victory more than anyone else. I also believe that he honestly believes that his business practices will work and honestly doesn't understand why they're not working.

 

It's not the payroll, it's not the weather, it's not city itself...after all, similar teams/cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Green Bay don't have problems attracting top playing and coaching talent. It's the front office.

 

This is as well expressed analysis of RW as I have ever read.

[offsides#76FredSmerlas]

I'm so tired of people like you not getting your facts straight. First of all I respect Mr Wilson for keeping the Bills in Buffalo but he has plenty of faults. He didn't "pay Jim Kelly and Bruce Smith because they performed' not at first. He gave Jim Kelly the highest contract of any NFL player at that time in 1986 to come to Buffalo from Houston from the defunct USFL. He paid Bruce Smith BEFORE the Bills even drafted him. Buffalo is NOT a shithole and I'm tired of idiots like you using that as an excuse. Players want to play for a WINNER. The Bills are not WINNERS! They want to play for great organizations. Go to Pittsburgh. Its not South beach. Its NOT a great city. Go to Green Bay. Bad. These teams play in very small markets yet they win because of the organization. Solid front office. Solid coaches. Ralph DOESN'T pay for that, rarely. Big names don't want to come because Ralph will not open his wallet to pay for asst and free agents. Thats why Shanny and Cower said no.Yeah you have to draft well, so what did he do with the one guy who drafted extremely well for Bills? Go ask the Colts who are in the playoffs every year.

I just found 2 more things that you spoke about that I just can't ignore. Jim Kelly was sitting in Ralph Wilsons office ready to sign a big time contract "according to Kelly himself" when Ralphs secretary walked in to the meeting. Kelly said he was literally minutes from signing a deal. The secretary said that Jim had a phone call and at that moment Houston made him an offer. He said he did not want to play in the cold Buffalo weather at the time and Houston would be a much better situation. My point is Ralph was going to pay him. Money wasn't the biggest factor. Also, we don't have any idea why Cowher and Shanahan didn't take the job in Buffalo, but we can speculate. My guess on Cowher: he hasn't accepted a job from anyone in the last sevral years, not just Buffalo because his family was going through alot with his former wife having cancer. I think that had more to do with it than paying assistant coaches and free agents. If he wanted to coach he would have a job tomorrow.

Edited January 19, 2011 by offsides#76FredSmerlas

[1B4IDie]

I totally agree on the Donahoe thing but doesn't every team have a Donahoe at some point? There's going to be hits and misses on players, coaches, and FO on every team.

Trading for Rob Johnson sent the Franchise back 5 years.

Then trading up for JP LOSSman sent the franchise back another 5 years.

 

40% of the roster is gone from 2009 season to the 2010.

And atleast another 20% from 2009 is going to be gone in 2011.

In less than 500 days a 2/3 of the roster will have flipped.

 

Nix & Co. are in total rebuilding mode.

Its going to take 2-4 more years to see what they make this time.

 

The Bills are consistently above the 50% mark in terms of annual salary so the nonsense that Ralph doesn't spend is just nonsense.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Why So Serious?

[2003Contenders]

I have never understood the crowd that claims that Ralph is a cheapskate.

 

The reality is that financial parameters have changed in a major way since the late 1980s. When Kelly signed that "massive" contract in 1990 that (briefly) made him the highest paid player in the NFL, the average annual salary was about $3M. Today, the top players in the league make close to $20M per year -- which is about what an entire roster payroll was back in those days. And we are talking just 20 years ago. Last year, Ralph paid about $120M in player payroll. When the salary cap kicked in in 1993, the first cap was less than $40M. By the time Tom Donahoe took over in 2001, the cap was up to $67M, and the Bills were in desperate peril as they had to make huge personnel moves to get under that figure. The last capped season (2009), it was around $127M.

 

Ralph's never had a problem paying players. Look at that ridiculous contract that Dockery signed just a few years ago. That is the real problem, though, right? Investing too much capital in mediocre players. And it isn't Ralph that makes these decisions; he just signs the check. I blame Ralph for firing the best GM (Polian) the team ever had, giving too much power to a GM that was hit-or-miss (TD), and relying on marketing guys to run the team after the Donahoe era. The verdict is still out on Nix.

[1B4IDie]

Agreed.

 

USA Today ran a chart right after last season listing 2009 player payroll for all of the NFL teams. The Bills placed 12th on the list, higher than two-thirds of that season's playoff teams (including the Pats).

 

The Bills haven't always gotten the best coaches and free agents because of the perception that the front office doesn't always make the best business decisions. Whether you're a CFO for a Fortune 500 company, a dishwasher, or a pro football player, you want to work for the best organization possible. You want bosses who make decisions which result in success, whether you define success as turning a healthy profit or winning championships.

 

For free agents, receiving top dollar isn't the only consideration. Most players want to get a ring and many are willing to take a bit less to play for a winner. LeBron James would have made more money had he signed with the Cavs, but wanted to join two other top players in a bid for championship gold. Put a salary cap in MLB and the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies will still be top choices for many players because those organizations have developed a culture of winning.

 

From losing Bill Polian to putting Russ Brandon in charge of football operations to bringing in Marv Levy as GM to seemingly countless wrongheaded draft picks, the perception is that RW doesn't make business decisions which result in fielding a winning team. If we can figure this out, it's got to be much clearer to players throughout the league.

 

Cheapness isn't Ralph Wilson's problem. His problem is that his hiring and employee retention practices run completely counter to the best practices used by most other NFL teams. He often values promoting from within over seeking the best available candidate for a job. He values loyalty over results. He seems to have developed a strong preference for hiring key personnel over the age of 60 (I get that, to a degree. I'm in my early 50's and most teens and twentysomethings I meet seem to be speaking a different language. Then again, I'm not trying to run a successful business.)

 

I'm not saying that every front office or coaching hire has been a mistake, only that the Bills seem to cast a far smaller net when looking for job candidates than most other teams.

 

I do believe that RW wants to see the team win and he'd probably relish a Bills Super Bowl victory more than anyone else. I also believe that he honestly believes that his business practices will work and honestly doesn't understand why they're not working.

 

It's not the payroll, it's not the weather, it's not city itself...after all, similar teams/cities like Pittsburgh, Cleveland, and Green Bay don't have problems attracting top playing and coaching talent. It's the front office.

 

This is good.

 

Nix & Co. are in total rebuilding mode.

Its going to take 2-4 more years to see what they make this time.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Why So Serious?

[JohnC]

I don't think that anything has changed in this franchise in 50 years. The only flashes of greatness occurred when Wilson stumbled on the right guy to run the organization. Other than that, the Bills have mirrored the mercurial personality of its owner. Wilson is not cheap, nor does he not want to win. What he is though, is simply a bad manager for the business that he runs. He may be good at his other businesses (my jury is still out on that), but there are really two measures of success in running a sports franchise, one is how many trophies you accumulate, the other is how much money you make while chasing those trophies.

 

Most owners who buy sports teams are after the trophies, RW not so much. That doesn’t necessarily translate to him being cheap – just bullheaded and wrong in many of his decisions. The man who stumbled onto Polian, also ran Butler out of town because he couldn’t stomach a former military janitor having a top job in his organization. He man who didn’t recognize the GM talent that he had in AJ Smith under his nose. The man who thought he did the right thing (as did most of the world) in hiring Donahoe, completely hid in a shell after the Donahoe firing. Bringing Levy back was his usual path of least resistance, while nothing else was done to rebuild the franchise.

 

The team’s management went into a void after 2006, as Levy’s position was largely ceremonial and it obvious that there was no accountability for running the franchise at that time. Wilson fired Donahoe, but left all the pieces that TD put in place, which was a monumental mistake. Whether you want to believe it or not, but RW’s meddling in the day to day operations are real enough rumors among the coaches in the league to make them shy away from Orchard Park. The team’s perplexing personnel moves – such as free agent signings and player cuts without any notice to the coaching staff, drive a head coach crazy. Imagine being in a workplace where on a given day, without your knowledge your boss decided to fire a key employee who had done nothing wrong.

 

It’s no accident that a mediocre talent like Mularkey elected to walk away from one of the 32 most coveted jobs in USA. It’s no accident that high profile veteran coaches and rising young ones refused to interview for the Bills coaching openings.

The Bills troubles should be rightly planted at RW’s doorstep. Enjoy the yesteryear of the ‘80s-‘90s, knowing that they were the anomaly in the team’s history.

 

Tremendous post. Every once in a while someone writes an exceptional post. This qualifies as one of the elite responses. Your basic point is that Ralph Wilson was involved in almost all the key organizational decisions. The results speak for itself.

 

I have one correction. When John Butler was fired for not agreeing to an extension (he was tired of working for Ralph) A.J. Smith was asked to take over. Mr. Smith told Ralph to go to hell. Ralph then fired Smith.

Edited January 19, 2011 by JohnC

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Compare our old owner to Al Davis.

 

It's like putting Bob Newhart to Al "Dawn of the living dead" Davis. What happened to crazy Al?

 

bandaids and bloodshot eyes Scary looking dude

 

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/a-davis2.jpg?w=250

[thewildrabbit]

I just don't get ...WHY YOU GUYS DON"T GET IT!!

 

The history of this franchise has shown that as long as tickets are selling, and seats are filled you can expect a mediocre team! When the team finally becomes bad enough and fan outcry gets loud enough you can then expect some changes.

RW doesn't like to hire outsiders or people he doesn't know, and he has a history of promoting from within the org... sometimes with good results and sometimes with bad results...Bill Polian vs QB coach to HC Kay Stephenson and DC to HC Hank Bullough.

 

Understand that this owner also has a history of being notoriously cantankerous and frugal. The ONLY reason Jim Kelly signed was because of Bill Polian, the ONLY reason Bruce Smith stayed in Buffalo after his contract was up, was because of Bill Polian who fought with RW. Anyone else remember the Denver Bronco's offered to pay top dollar and give up 2 first round picks for Bruce, Polian fought to keep Smith in Buffalo and pay him what Denver offered.

 

Look back at what brought Chuck Knox into Buffalo, fan interest in OJ was winding down and the Buffalo Bills couldn't even play pre-season games "IN" Buffalo because they couldn't sell enough tickets. The ENTIRE decade of the 70's, that's right from 1970-1979 the Buffalo Bills didn't win a single game against the Miami Dolphins. Fans were staying away in droves at the end of the 70's and Wilson knew he "HAD" to do something!

 

Chuck Knox might be the greatest Bills head coach ever IMO, he took a bunch of mediocre players and changed their mentality from losers into winners. Before Knox came to Buffalo the Bills had won 5 of 28 games the previous 2 years. He took the Bills to the playoffs in two short years and did this dispite the team having worst GM in the history of the Buffalo Bills in Stew Barber. Knox failed to come to terms with owner Ralph Wilson so he went to Seattle and took them to the playoffs that same year.

 

The Bills got extremely lucky to find and hire Bill Polian, who in my eyes is probably the best ever GM the NFL has seen the last 30 years, for what he did in Buffalo and Indy. The Bills will never see another like him simply because they refuse to hire expensive, known people. Although that doesn't stop RW from trying to find another Polian, he promoted Buddy Nix just like he did with Polian. Huge mistake IMO, even Buddy described himself as NOT "the smartest guy in the room" at his first presser, Cornell Green agrees.

 

The Bills had Bill Polian-A.J.Smith-Chuck Knox-John Butler...some of the best talent evaluators in the NFL and either let them go or fired them.

 

 

 

Bottom line: there are men out there who could turn around this team in 2 years or less, but Buffalo has to settle for what they can get because most don't want to become involved in the current situation of the Buffalo Bills...the owner / president, micro managing ...the area, weather,city...the lack of money ....and even if a Head Coach/ GM/ president shows he can build a winner in Buffalo, history has shown he might not be rewarded for his efforts

Edited January 19, 2011 by Harvey lives