SageAgainstTheMachine Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 You have yet to explain why what the Cowboys did was any different than what the Vikings did. There is exactly zero difference between the two clubs and the candidates they would like to hire. The rule forces them to go through the stupid worthless song and dance, instead of just hiring the guy they want, like the Vikes did. True enough, but there also isn't a long history of teams tacitly excluding white coaching prospects from the interview process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 It really isn't a waste of time. I think the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Even though the Cowboys have no intention of hiring a particular candidate as their HC, an honest interview helps both sides. It gives the minority candidate real interview experience, his name bandied about as a candidate (which helps lead to future interviews...one of which he may actually get). It also may open the eyes of the Cowboy FO to consider the candidate for this HC job, a coordinator position or a HC job in the future. If they are impressed it may also help the candidate get a job with another team, as team owners and GMs talk to one another. Some Black candidates have refused interviews they saw as less than honest. They felt insulted. That's their right. But more have accepted them as they did NOT feel insulted, at least not enough to pass on a chance to get this experience. I think it's questionable as to whether the Rooney Rule made a significant difference or not. The major problem is that there hasn't been a quality pool of minority candidates to choose from until recently. Lots of people cite the majority of players in the NFL as minorities as a reason why head coaches should be too, but not many coaches had significant playing careers in the NFL. It seems that most coaches were college players, then went into coaching after college. There was also a study released early this year by the University of Iowa which found little evidence of discrimination in NFL head coaching hires. The more effective way to go would be to promote minority coaches working their way up through the ranks. They're getting a shot when they get to be head coach, but there isn't a huge pool to pick from. If the NFL can promote college players that didn't make the NFL starting careers as coaches, the pool will grow, and it'll fix the real problem: supply, not hiring practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 i happen to think the Rooney rule is still needed and a very valuable and neccessary tool in today's NFL. here's an interesting and current article on the rule as it apply's to minnesota and Leslie Frazier: http://deadspin.com/5720517/leslie-frazier-and-the-failings-of-the-rooney-rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 There was also a study released early this year by the University of Iowa which found little evidence of discrimination in NFL head coaching hires. http://wsb.wharton.upenn.edu/documents/research/jseIIrevjun2010.doc This is a Wharton School of Business analysis of the impact of the Rooney Rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 There are a lot more black coaches who got their jobs after the Rooney rule. Hard to argue with that. Tomlin, Dungy, Smith, and the Colts coach seem like pretty good choices, while Singletary and others have not cut the mustard. Pretty much the same situation as white coaches. Seems to me that the rule has been effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) http://wsb.wharton.upenn.edu/documents/research/jseIIrevjun2010.doc This is a Wharton School of Business analysis of the impact of the Rooney Rule. Not sure that I buy that study. The evidence they present for their argument is problematic. The study says black head coaches did better in 1990-2002, and after the Rooney Rule in 2003, they did the same as their white counterparts, indicating black head coaches had to be better than white head coaches to get hired. However, the study says: Because the teams that hired African American coaches in the 1990 to 2002 period had better records prior to the hires, Madden uses the ratio of team payroll to league mean payroll as an index of team quality when analyzing racial differences in overall records. All the anecdotal evidence I've seen says money spent != how well a team is. I'd really like to see some proof of a correlation before I believe that. The other way they tried to control for it: Table 2b uses another measure of team quality, the Sports Illustrated pre-season ranking of the team. Most pre-season predictions are *wayyyyyyy* off of the final result. Comparing pre-season rankings to what happens during the season isn't a great way of measuring performance. Again, I'd like to see evidence of a correlation before I believed that either. Unfortunately, the University of Iowa study isn't available online for free, but here's a summary article; http://news-releases.uiowa.edu/2010/january/011210blackNFLcoach.html Edited January 3, 2011 by BlueFire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 The Laplander people have always gotten short shrift - especially in warm weather cities. Tell me, who more appropriate to coach in Minnesota? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Do you honestly believe that 6 minorities are head coaches due to this rule, or that this rule really played a hand in the fact these coaches were hired? Maybe I am being naive because I don't care about race/color/ethnicity, and would never make a judgment based on that. I believe that Owners and General Managers make the call on who pilots their on field product based on qualifications, and not any other factors. Do I think the league has always been this way? That answer is no. Do I think the rule might have made sense 30 years ago? Yes. I don't think the Rooney rule has any place in the league anymore because it is not necessary. The Vikings want Frazier, good, go get it done. The Cowboys want Garrett, go, get that done. I agreee. I don't think any black coach right now was stumbled upon on a Rooney interview. In fact, the only time we even hear of the Rooney rule is when a team has targeted a white guy and has to do at least one sham interview. Has a Rooney candidate ever been hired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I agreee. I don't think any black coach right now was stumbled upon on a Rooney interview. In fact, the only time we even hear of the Rooney rule is when a team has targeted a white guy and has to do at least one sham interview. Has a Rooney candidate ever been hired? Agreed. The NFL is a multi billion dollar industry. There's simply no way that owners are not aware of up and coming black HC candidates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 It really isn't a waste of time. I think the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. Even though the Cowboys have no intention of hiring a particular candidate as their HC, an honest interview helps both sides. It gives the minority candidate real interview experience, his name bandied about as a candidate (which helps lead to future interviews...one of which he may actually get). It also may open the eyes of the Cowboy FO to consider the candidate for this HC job, a coordinator position or a HC job in the future. If they are impressed it may also help the candidate get a job with another team, as team owners and GMs talk to one another. Some Black candidates have refused interviews they saw as less than honest. They felt insulted. That's their right. But more have accepted them as they did NOT feel insulted, at least not enough to pass on a chance to get this experience. A fair point to make, Dean. Now should'nt the Vikings do the same? Yes Frazier is a minority candidate, but that does'nt mean the Vikings should'nt interview other minority candidates or non-minority candidates, who could be qualified for a head coaching job. After all it would give those candidates real interview experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Vikings press conference at @4:15 to make it official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I think it's questionable as to whether the Rooney Rule made a significant difference or not. prior to 2003 (when the rule was adopted), there had been a total of 5 african americans hired as head coaches in the entire history of the league. since 2003, there have been 7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 prior to 2003 (when the rule was adopted), there had been a total of 5 african americans hired as head coaches in the entire history of the league. since 2003, there have been 7. Correlation != causation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Long Beach Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Correlation != causation You can't be hired as head coach if you aren't even interviewed. More minority candidates are being interviewed and more minority coaches are being hired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Is this one of those, "why can't I say the n word because they can?" posts? Race relations have come a very long way. But it still is a different world for the most minorities. Being white in America is like being the Yankees. You might not win the title every year, but it still a lot easier than if you're the Royals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 You can't be hired as head coach if you aren't even interviewed. More minority candidates are being interviewed and more minority coaches are being hired. And do you honestly think that any Rooney candidate has ever been hired? I guarantee you that every black HC ever hired was a target by the particular owner/team because they were a good candidate, NOT because they got a token interview and wowed the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 And do you honestly think that any Rooney candidate has ever been hired? I guarantee you that every black HC ever hired was a target by the particular owner/team because they were a good candidate, NOT because they got a token interview and wowed the team. The funniest part about people who female dog about the Rooney rule is that the owner who came up with the idea in the first place hired a young, inexperienced black head coach. And won a SB. But obviously, it's destroying the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The funniest part about people who female dog about the Rooney rule is that the owner who came up with the idea in the first place hired a young, inexperienced black head coach. And won a SB. The funniest part about that argument is that same owner said the Rooney rule had nothing to do with the hire. But obviously, it's destroying the NFL. Talk about hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The funniest part about that argument is that same owner said the Rooney rule had nothing to do with the hire. Talk about hyperbole. How about Raheem Morris then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtbag Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) And do you honestly think that any Rooney candidate has ever been hired? I guarantee you that every black HC ever hired was a target by the particular owner/team because they were a good candidate, NOT because they got a token interview and wowed the team. im not sure how you can make such a claim without providing any evidence, while summarily dismissing my earlier (fact-based) comment regarding the real and obvious increase in minority coaches since the rule's implementation. do you have information that supports your premise that the rooney rule was somehow inconsequential to these hirings? the rule only requires that teams interview minority candidates. they aren't forced to hire anyone they don't want. it simply brings new candidates into the fold who were previously overlooked (as evidenced by the nfl's clear lack of diversity in coaching prior to 2003). i've never understood the furor over making a billionaire owner take a couple of hours to conduct one additional interview. Edited January 4, 2011 by Dirtbag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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