DC Tom Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Some of this stuff really makes me wonder what portion of the posters here have never been on other Internet-based message boards. I suspect that John Wawrow posts here to get his name out there more, so that his writings reach a wider audience. Or maybe just for fun, who knows. Most people "bother" continuing to participate here because they enjoy the back and forth that these Internet-based message boards offer. "You are a dummy" has grown to mean "I disagree with the opinion that you expressed in your previous posting" on Internet-based message boards. This may offend your humanistic sensibilities, but it's just the nature of the beast. You can try to keep your corner of the Internet from changing to meet these modern communicative norms, but you'll just end up with smaller debate amongst a hold-out crew of like-minded folks. That is a choice to be made by the owners of this domain, but successful Internet-based message boards and their posters have adapted to this style. And suggesting that, because John isn't a "columnist", his pieces are devoid of opinion rings hollow with me. So, I'll simply say that I disagree with the opinion that you expressed in your previous posting. Every writer injects their own style (which is generally colored by their opinions and life experiences) into their work, and people may or may not enjoy it and may or may not criticize it. I just generally dislike the whole notion of, "I was personally attacked for posting my opinions on an Internet-based message board! It isn't worth it to post here because my feelings were hurt!". Frankly, it isn't "worth" anything to post on a message board such as this. It's just a fun thing that we do to engender debate among a community of individuals sharing a similar interest. If you have any experience on such message boards, you should fully expect that you will catch some heat when you post things that others disagree with. You should expect criticism in the manner that it is generally delivered in this medium - with a bit of bite. You should also expect a bit stronger bite if you separate yourself from the "regular" contributors by positioning yourself as an authority or give yourself a bit of "celebrity". To not expect that to place a target on yourself for extra criticism seems foolish. Just my opinion, hopefully in a style that doesn't violate the Terms of Service I didn't pick John's username, or decide for him that he should post here from a position of notoriety/quasi-celebrity. That was a decision that he made for himself, theoretically understanding fully how that type of persona is received on an Internet-based message board. If I claimed to be a notable, recognizable person, I'd expect that my non-anonymous status would change how my posts are perceived. You're an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Like Dennis Leary said... People from Buffalo are bitter bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 People that post on Internet-based message boards and who also have very thin skins make for people that don't have a lot of longevity on Internet-based message boards. You got that right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Its a free country...post, don't post, selectively post...whine, moan...whatever. We should all be civil...none of us are all the time some of us are uncivil more than others. If someone wants to leave...leave..if you want to come back..come back... I don't understand all the drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Its a free country...post, don't post, selectively post...whine, moan...whatever. We should all be civil...none of us are all the time some of us are uncivil more than others. If someone wants to leave...leave..if you want to come back..come back... I don't understand all the drama. You're an idiot and a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 sieg heil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The climate on this Board is starting to jibe with my observation of the climate at Ralph Wilson stadium. I grew up in Buffalo and always will hold it dear in my heart, but I'm starting to think that Buffalonians - at least the "active" generation of internet users and tailgaters - are a bunch of sniveling, slobbering, drunken, uneducated, entitled SOBs who deserve the horrible product that they're rabidly obsessing about. akm0404 is a perfect example of this unfortunate species - I'm guessing he's in his 20s (or younger), thinks the world owes him more than he's gotten in life, and thinks rudeness is something to be admired or emulated. It's a generational thing (a sad one), as well as a symptom of the long decline of the WNY region, which was once a breadbasket of prosperity and good schools. I don't blame JW in the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 sieg heil! My point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The climate on this Board is starting to jibe with my observation of the climate at Ralph Wilson stadium. I grew up in Buffalo and always will hold it dear in my heart, but I'm starting to think that Buffalonians - at least the "active" generation of internet users and tailgaters - are a bunch of sniveling, slobbering, drunken, uneducated, entitled SOBs who deserve the horrible product that they're rabidly obsessing about. akm0404 is a perfect example of this unfortunate species - I'm guessing he's in his 20s (or younger), thinks the world owes him more than he's gotten in life, and thinks rudeness is something to be admired or emulated. It's a generational thing (a sad one), as well as a symptom of the long decline of the WNY region, which was once a breadbasket of prosperity and good schools. I don't blame JW in the least. Do you realise what you just said? You called a poster a son of a bytch...drunken, slobbering...made a lot of negative assertions about the guy..and then talk about civility on the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) Its a free country...post, don't post, selectively post...whine, moan...whatever. We should all be civil...none of us are all the time some of us are uncivil more than others. If someone wants to leave...leave..if you want to come back..come back... I don't understand all the drama. In this case John W didn't cause the drama. JohnC started this thread. As far as the drama between John W and "The chimp," I didn't see it and don't care to find it. Something happened. John took off. Maybe he'll be back. I don't see him feeding a drama loop. Is the tone of message boards different than real life? Yes. It would be great if people would police their behavior on the web like they do in public but they ("I") don't. The only way to keep a board clear of moronic posters is to start a draconian post/user deletion policy. That would both be a lot of work for our unpaid mods and also take away from the good that comes from frank and open discussion. Unlike most social networks in real life where a group can ostracize a member and the member then usually changes or leaves, that can't happen here unless the software changes dramatically. Edited October 15, 2010 by Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 My point. yeah..that usually works well with you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Do you realise what you just said? You called a poster a son of a bytch...drunken, slobbering...made a lot of negative assertions about the guy..and then talk about civility on the board? Yessir. The person who is cheering the departure of a respected and valuable contributor because he was too thin-skinned to put up with the subhumans who chased him out. I realize it quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 The climate on this Board is starting to jibe with my observation of the climate at Ralph Wilson stadium. I grew up in Buffalo and always will hold it dear in my heart, but I'm starting to think that Buffalonians - at least the "active" generation of internet users and tailgaters - are a bunch of sniveling, slobbering, drunken, uneducated, entitled SOBs who deserve the horrible product that they're rabidly obsessing about. akm0404 is a perfect example of this unfortunate species - I'm guessing he's in his 20s (or younger), thinks the world owes him more than he's gotten in life, and thinks rudeness is something to be admired or emulated. It's a generational thing (a sad one), as well as a symptom of the long decline of the WNY region, which was once a breadbasket of prosperity and good schools. I don't blame JW in the least. That's what a brain drain will do to a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 ffs... guys like jw have access none of us have, they give/gave TBD that bit extra you wouldnt find on your normal rant boards with just fans. As a general rule people should understand that if you say something that would get you a ppunch in the face in real life you shouldnt be posting it. How hard can that concept be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfaninvgs Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 There is a difference between disagreeing and personally insulting people. Many here can not understand this. Agreed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) I'm not trying to say that it is a 'good thing' to get personal with people on a message board. I'm only saying that, by now, if you post on a message board, you should not be surprised and have a tantrum if someone calls you a bad name. You should be even less surprised if you position yourself as some kind of expert or quasi-celebrity. Edited October 15, 2010 by akm0404 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Yessir. The person who is cheering the departure of a respected and valuable contributor because he was too thin-skinned to put up with the subhumans who chased him out. I realize it quite well. Exactly who is "cheering" anyone's departure??? Would that make someone actually subhuman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 I'm not trying to say that it is a 'good thing' to get personal with people on a message board. I'm only saying that, by now, if you post on a message board, you should not be surprised and have a tantrum if someone calls you a bad name. You should be even less surprised if you position yourself as some kind of expert Please respond in this thread by posting your name, job, and workplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 I have learned that JW has decided to opt out of TBD. Someone who goes by the name of Chimp resorted to a personal attack (expletive) which got him banned from this board. So now Graham, Lori and JW have all come to the same conclusion that it is not worth their time to participate here. Whether others agree or not with what they posted they don't deserve to be personally insulted for their views or responses. With their departures TBD is diminished by the loss of their insights and their inside contacts. I've been personally insulted a million times but I'm still here... Seriously though if you've been around here as long as some of us have and you can't recognize the difference between then and now...well...You'd have to be pretty clueless...I'm 100% certain the fact that the Bills (as an Organization) have been a complete joke is most definitely a contributing factor...But in comparison to say, MMORPG.com...This is actually quite tame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 akm0404 is a perfect example of this unfortunate species - I'm guessing he's in his 20s (or younger), thinks the world owes him more than he's gotten in life, and thinks rudeness is something to be admired or emulated. It's a generational thing (a sad one), as well as a symptom of the long decline of the WNY region, which was once a breadbasket of prosperity and good schools. I don't blame JW in the least. You make some very good points about how personal insults on an Internet message board are bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Please respond in this thread by posting your name, job, and workplace. and social security number bank account and pin visa and mastercard number and security code..... address and where your kids go to school Look no one expects anyone to use their real name..most of us don't..(my name isn't really tennesseeboy...) If John, Lori, or others choose to do it, god bless them..but it doesn't make them better or worse than anyone else on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Yessir. The person who is cheering the departure of a respected and valuable contributor because he was too thin-skinned to put up with the subhumans who chased him out. I realize it quite well. Where did I cheer John's departure? Now you are just making things up, on top of being a hypocrite. Excellent! Please respond in this thread by posting your name, job, and workplace. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 and social security number bank account and pin visa and mastercard number and security code..... address and where your kids go to school Look no one expects anyone to use their real name..most of us don't..(my name isn't really tennesseeboy...) If John, Lori, or others choose to do it, god bless them..but it doesn't make them better or worse than anyone else on the board. At the same time, if they are brave enough to, the personal attacks are then out there for google to index, the criticisms of their work are there for employers to review. I post under a different name because I don't trust people to be civil. John posted under his own to lend credibility to his posts and let people know he was a regular guy. (And interact with more people who would then buy him a drink at a bar.) He now chooses to leave for whatever reason. If you want to eff with "Peace," feel free to do so. If you want to eff with my actual name and job, it's a whole different thing. Differentiating between the two is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 No. But come on: Insulting John's name and work is just how things are. Give us the same privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Where did I cheer John's departure? Now you are just making things up, on top of being a hypocrite. Excellent! No. You still haven't responded to my point about rationalizing. I've been on this board from its pre-TBD days, so it's not as if I'm a novice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Why can't Sully start posting on this board so he can also be summarily dismissed? Big whoop, jw is gone. We get better scoops & insight from the regulars anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 If you want to eff with "Peace," feel free to do so. If you want to eff with my actual name and job, it's a whole different thing. Differentiating between the two is important. That is the whole point. If you bring your name and job to an Internet message board (particularly one as tame as TSW), you shouldn't act surprised when you get more attention than some randoms (read: criticism). Most of us choose not to use our real identities for just that reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPhan Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 I have learned that JW has decided to opt out of TBD. Someone who goes by the name of Chimp resorted to a personal attack (expletive) which got him banned from this board. So now Graham, Lori and JW have all come to the same conclusion that it is not worth their time to participate here. Whether others agree or not with what they posted they don't deserve to be personally insulted for their views or responses. With their departures TBD is diminished by the loss of their insights and their inside contacts. I don't know any of them who have left the board, but being one of the posters out here who enjoys "getting under the skin" of other posters with my sarcastic "wit", they should not allow idiots who make personal attacks to get them that upset. Instead, the jerks making the personal attacks should be tossed out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 You still haven't responded to my point about rationalizing. I've been on this board from its pre-TBD days, so it's not as if I'm a novice. Sorry. I got caught up in other less sensible posts. I suppose you could view it as rationalizing the 'bad behavior'. I personally don't find the tone of Internet message boards offensive, or I wouldn't choose to participate. I don't get offended when I get called a mouth-breathing entitled drunken uneducated kid. It's just the nature of the media. While I don't think it is particularly kind to snipe with other posters, it is entertaining to some degree, and this is an entertainment medium. I also don't think that everyone should be forced to use their real IDs on message boards either - it is the very heart of the spirit of the Internet to facilitate the free and open discourse between folks. It is also the nature of this medium that if you do not wish to subject yourself to the fruits of anonymity, you can keep your browser closed. I'd hate to see that changed or censored because sometimes people get their feelings hurt. Agree? Disagree? Ps I hate you and think you smell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 This is really too bad...the main reason i joined this board a few years ago was because of pieces from Lori and jw and when TG joined the board i couldnt believe my luck. I still enjoy reading the board but to get to the good insight you have to dig through a lot of junk. Sad to see you jw but i understand. Best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 no..I've been invited to head up a panel at a conference in Heidelberg Germany about the same time...Much as I like Clearwater, I have never spent any significant time in Germany and it is kind of an honor to get invited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 That is the whole point. If you bring your name and job to an Internet message board (particularly one as tame as TSW), you shouldn't act surprised when you get more attention than some randoms (read: criticism). Most of us choose not to use our real identities for just that reason. Which is precisely why the owner of this site issued a point of emphasis on this topic earlier this year: I would like to state upfront what the policy is here, and I'm embarrassed that it has to be spelled out for some of you. We have some special guests here that provide their time, knowledge and insight to us and for that we are grateful. They do this for free. We welcome their participation and we will do what we need to do in order to facilitate that. Feel free to engage these individuals with your questions and your comments in a reasoned, tactful manner. You don't have to like what they report. You don't have to agree with what they report. But I can assure you that from this point forward your engagement with them on THIS forum will be respectful. If you can't phrase your comment or objection as if these individuals were sitting across the dinner table from you - then just keep it to yourself. Plain and simple. Just don't write it. If you lack restraint - we will quickly provide that for you. We wish you luck in your future endeavors. This goes for old-timers and newbies alike. For those of you wanting to argue this - don't bother. I will not side with your lack of civility, I will not side with ignorant ramblings over professionalism. Let me reiterate, tactful criticism and skepticism are welcomed. Being a rude jackass is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peace Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 That is the whole point. If you bring your name and job to an Internet message board (particularly one as tame as TSW), you shouldn't act surprised when you get more attention than some randoms (read: criticism). Most of us choose not to use our real identities for just that reason. No, that's the opposite of the point. Posters who insult people's livelihoods while hiding behind anonymous usernames step over a line. They should know better. Why can't Sully start posting on this board so he can also be summarily dismissed? Sully is The Chimp. Mission accomplished! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOTONE Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 not a lot of civility on the board. We have people threatening physical violence and questioning people's right to be alive. Doesn't phase me, but I can see how some might be put off by it. I just consider the source and keep on keepin'on. It's like going to an actual Bills game. I am really embarrassed of the way our fan base acts. I would never take my kid to a home Bills game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfreak Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 Are you sure? Did he tell you this? I wont believe it until I see a farewell post or thread started by jw. We had one of them by the guy that was supposedly a former Bill in the 60's, then a month or so later he was back posting? If the person who said that stuff to him got banned, why would he quit? Thin Skin maybe? I have been called a coward by a few people on this board, who just recently apologized because they realized I was correct. I am still here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 no..I've been invited to head up a panel at a conference in Heidelberg Germany about the same time...Much as I like Clearwater, I have never spent any significant time in Germany and it is kind of an honor to get invited. Congrats!! Thats terrific!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills44 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 In this case John W didn't cause the drama. JohnC started this thread. I'm beginning to wonder, considering JohnC's constant support of all things Jerry Sullivan, and him posting that he "learned" that John Wawrow left the board, whether JohnC is in fact a member of the local media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 It's like going to an actual Bills game. I am really embarrassed of the way our fan base acts. I would never take my kid to a home Bills game. Says the guy with the fellatio reference in his signature. Stay classy, San Diego! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 I'm beginning to wonder, considering JohnC's constant support of all things Jerry Sullivan, and him posting that he "learned" that John Wawrow left the board, whether JohnC is in fact a member of the local media. Or JohnC read jw's cry for attention? He probably doesn't get enough of it with his real name plastered all over the Internets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akm0404 Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 To think that anyone deserves to be attacked merely because of their job description is what seems foolish to me. As for John and Tim "choosing" to post under their own names, using a pseudonym to write about a subject they cover is simply not an option. It would be unethical at best -- and in fact, under the current ESPN social-media policy, it might be a fireable offense. Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I'm certainly not asserting that anyone "deserves" to be attacked because of their job description. My opinion of people being offended and "quitting" an Internet-based message board has nothing to do with their name, their job, their blood type, etc. My assertion is that you are doing it wrong if you take your ball and go home when someone insults you in this particular medium. I guess we disagree on the ethicalness of posting under a pseudonym to write about a subject that they cover. I would think that sharing your anonymous opinion, whether it be on a message board, to a letter to the editor of the local paper, or in a message to the President of the United States should not be a fire-able offense. I would think that someone terminated for anonymously posting their opinions on a message board would have significant grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit. Just my non-legally binding opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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