Why not build it on the edge of the falls???

[PromoTheRobot]

Let's ruin the Falls by putting a huge stadium next to it?

 

No thanks. The Falls will be around long after the Bills are a memory. Leave the Canadian view untarnished. And the American side has zero view anyways.

 

Want to build it within walking distance in the NF slums? No problem.

Probably true, although it's also true the Falls are moving toward Buffalo a couple feet a year. So just build a stadium in downtown Buffalo and wait 10,000 years.

 

Seriously, build a combo stadium/convention/hotel/entertainment complex near the Falls. You can blow up most of downtown NF for parking, though there are acres of empty fields just behind the casino. Have the Bills play there and bid for things like the NCAA Final 4 and Super Bowl. Even have the Sabres vs Leafs there once a year.

 

PTR

[Section444]

Am I missing something? Last time I read there was no real talk of a new stadium. I was under the impression that the area was in pretty bad shape financially.

[Peace]

Am I missing something? Last time I read there was no real talk of a new stadium. I was under the impression that the area was in pretty bad shape financially.

 

There is no money for a stadium. This is one poster imagining Bill Gates bought the Bills and Buffalo becomes a new place to live for the world's rich and famous.

 

The Bills will always be a small market team as long as they are locked in Buffalo. The closer they get to Toronto, ie, NF, the better their chances of staying in Buffalo and getting a more wealthy and sustaining fan base and ownership.

[Section444]

There is no money for a stadium. This is one poster imagining Bill Gates bought the Bills and Buffalo becomes a new place to live for the world's rich and famous.

 

The Bills will always be a small market team as long as they are locked in Buffalo. The closer they get to Toronto, ie, NF, the better their chances of staying in Buffalo and getting a more wealthy and sustaining fan base and ownership.

Ah okay. Well, even the richest of NFL owners (Jerry Jones, etc...) still need a lot of help from the community to build their stadiums. I honestly don't know why the Bills need a new stadium, it's one of the better game-day experiences in the league because it's so old and outdated. Could it use a couple hundred million dollars invested to upgrading some aspects of it, sure, but I don't think it needs to be replaced. Now if the Bills and the county can't hammer something out by 2012 you won't have much of an option.

[Merle Haggard]

Let's ruin the Falls by putting a huge stadium next to it?

 

No thanks. The Falls will be around long after the Bills are a memory. Leave the Canadian view untarnished. And the American side has zero view anyways.

 

Want to build it within walking distance in the NF slums? No problem.

 

Wha??? How the in the sam heck would a state of the art stadium next to the falls ruin it? Compared to the sewer of a downtown area that the present NF (USA) is, the stadium would be a crown jewel.

 

Putting the stadium next to the falls is a brilliant idea.

[Geno Smith's Arm]

Wha??? How the in the sam heck would a state of the art stadium next to the falls ruin it? Compared to the sewer of a downtown area that the present NF (USA) is, the stadium would be a crown jewel.

 

Putting the stadium next to the falls is a brilliant idea.

 

 

It's one of the NATURAL Wonders of the World! It's already pretty commercialized (I think they should raze any building within a mile of it, but I know that won't happen). I can't see how having a stadium right next to the Falls, either would benefit (the stadium or the Falls). It would just look cool in the overhead shot from the blimp or something. Homer Simpson, is that you?

 

Probably true, although it's also true the Falls are moving toward Buffalo a couple feet a year. So just build a stadium in downtown Buffalo and wait 10,000 years.

 

Seriously, build a combo stadium/convention/hotel/entertainment complex near the Falls. You can blow up most of downtown NF for parking, though there are acres of empty fields just behind the casino. Have the Bills play there and bid for things like the NCAA Final 4 and Super Bowl. Even have the Sabres vs Leafs there once a year.

 

PTR

 

 

How about this? Give Niagara Falls an opportunity to somehow manage to keep say, a bowling league going for 10 years. Then, if they can keep that going, maybe they can be taken seriously as a "host city".

[Merle Haggard]

It's one of the NATURAL Wonders of the World! It's already pretty commercialized (I think they should raze any building within a mile of it, but I know that won't happen). I can't see how having a stadium right next to the Falls, either would benefit (the stadium or the Falls). It would just look cool in the overhead shot from the blimp or something. Homer Simpson, is that you?

 

 

No reason for name calling. I believe it is against forum rules. Putting a great stadium by one of the 7 wonders is a brilliant idea. It could be designed in such a way that would satisfy you tree hugger types. LOL. I say bull doze downtown NF and build the darn thing. Put in all the modern day goodies that you young types love - big screen scoreboard, loud music blaring, etc.

 

Remember guy, a mind is like a parachute, to work properly it must be open.

[bills1960]

What I don't understand is all the talk about this team needing to expand their fan base. Yeah, getting a larger market from Toronto and Southern Ont. would help, but the Bills have made money from day one in this market. I have no fear in the Bills moving because they do what other teams these days fail to do, make money. I don't see the need for one in N.F., build it in the city and try to revive the downtown area.

[buffalobillsfootball]

Although I prefer a downtown BUFFALO stadium; I'm not against a Niagara Falls Stadium. Our future in north of the border; not Rochester.

 

However, there is no way in hell a stadium for the Bills will be built in or near the oldest state park in the country.

 

When the time comes; build the stadium in downtown Buffalo.

[notwoz]

Putting a great stadium by one of the 7 wonders is a brilliant idea.

Uh, no. If I can be candid and honest: It's a stupid idea.

 

Granted, downtown Niagara Falls is a s**thole. As a former resident of the Falls, it pains me to say that, but the city has been decaying for at least 50 years and really needs something no short of a miracle to restore its former glory. And no, a football stadium is not that miracle that will revive the city or benefit the team's ownership. And you have to take into consideration that the ownership could very well change long before any new stadium is completed.

 

Let's start wtih logistics. There is no place on the American side of the falls to build a stadium that has a view of the cataracts as was suggested. Unless you want to have a "three-sided" stadium. Then you cut down on capacity. That doesn't even begin to address issues such as parking or a road system that can handle the traffic all of eight times a year.

 

Also, the prime real estate closest to the falls and the gorge is owned by New York State. Good luck convincing Albany that anything west of the Husdon River is worthy of consideration -- especially a hare-brained idea like a football stadium at the brink of the falls.

 

Additionally, in 2008 Congress designated the falls as a national heritage area -- which is a designation signifying the region’s "importance to American history and culture." According to the National Park Service: "Usually managed by a partnership of organizations and local governments, national heritage areas pool together resources (cultural, natural and financial) to promote the region for tourism and economic development, while fostering preservation and conservation for the visitors of today and future generations. The National Park Service is authorized by Congress to provide financial and technical assistance to the partnerships that manage the areas."

 

If there ever was a person who could survive and successfully negotiate the cluster-f**k that this designation impies, he died about 2000 years ago.

 

So just suck it up and drive to Orchard Park.

 

Oh, by the way -- what are the other six wonders, and do they have sports arenas built on top of them?

 

What I don't understand is all the talk about this team needing to expand their fan base. Yeah, getting a larger market from Toronto and Southern Ont. would help, but the Bills have made money from day one in this market. I have no fear in the Bills moving because they do what other teams these days fail to do, make money. I don't see the need for one in N.F., build it in the city and try to revive the downtown area.

The population of Buffalo and Erie County is shrinking. This is something that's been going on for decades. The only logical place to expand the fan base is in Ontario. Every time I make the drive through Southern Ontario I see more and more development. When I cross the bridge into New York ... well, it's not a pretty picture.

[Thurman#1]

Wha??? How the in the sam heck would a state of the art stadium next to the falls ruin it? Compared to the sewer of a downtown area that the present NF (USA) is, the stadium would be a crown jewel.

 

Putting the stadium next to the falls is a brilliant idea.

 

 

 

From the outside, stadiums are phenomenally ugly. Just horrible. No way anyone should be allowed to do it next to the Falls. No way.

 

But someone else suggested some way away with some kind of distant view of the Falls. If it were possible, that would be good. Don't think there are many distant views of the Falls, though.

[jhood716]

i like the stadium where it is.

 

i live in niagara falls if they were to move i think it would be a great place to put the stadium and it would be great for the city of niagara falls. dont think it would ever happen tho the way this city is run it seems they always do the opposite of what would be good for the falls

[Joaquin1119]

I'm sorry to say but dome stadium sucks!! football should be an out door sport not indoor..

[strive_for_five_guy]

Sounds like the point has been made above, but how would traffic work?

[Cookiemonster]

This would save us from having to cut players, as we would just send them over the falls in a barrell.

[bills1960]

Uh, no. If I can be candid and honest: It's a stupid idea.

 

Granted, downtown Niagara Falls is a s**thole. As a former resident of the Falls, it pains me to say that, but the city has been decaying for at least 50 years and really needs something no short of a miracle to restore its former glory. And no, a football stadium is not that miracle that will revive the city or benefit the team's ownership. And you have to take into consideration that the ownership could very well change long before any new stadium is completed.

 

Let's start wtih logistics. There is no place on the American side of the falls to build a stadium that has a view of the cataracts as was suggested. Unless you want to have a "three-sided" stadium. Then you cut down on capacity. That doesn't even begin to address issues such as parking or a road system that can handle the traffic all of eight times a year.

 

Also, the prime real estate closest to the falls and the gorge is owned by New York State. Good luck convincing Albany that anything west of the Husdon River is worthy of consideration -- especially a hare-brained idea like a football stadium at the brink of the falls.

 

Additionally, in 2008 Congress designated the falls as a national heritage area -- which is a designation signifying the region’s "importance to American history and culture." According to the National Park Service: "Usually managed by a partnership of organizations and local governments, national heritage areas pool together resources (cultural, natural and financial) to promote the region for tourism and economic development, while fostering preservation and conservation for the visitors of today and future generations. The National Park Service is authorized by Congress to provide financial and technical assistance to the partnerships that manage the areas."

 

If there ever was a person who could survive and successfully negotiate the cluster-f**k that this designation impies, he died about 2000 years ago.

 

So just suck it up and drive to Orchard Park.

 

Oh, by the way -- what are the other six wonders, and do they have sports arenas built on top of them?

 

 

The population of Buffalo and Erie County is shrinking. This is something that's been going on for decades. The only logical place to expand the fan base is in Ontario. Every time I make the drive through Southern Ontario I see more and more development. When I cross the bridge into New York ... well, it's not a pretty picture.

But they sell out every game and make a lot of money. It shouldn't matter about the population, it should matter about their success. Look at Green Bay, excluding their historic factor,that area (including Milwaukee), isn't doing great either, but they make money like we do.

[metzelaars_lives]

Are you in fact the real Merle Haggard and if so, are you retiring from posting here? I'd imagine you could get some good material for some heartbreaking country tunes on here.

[notwoz]

Are you in fact the real Merle Haggard and if so, are you retiring from posting here? I'd imagine you could get some good material for some heartbreaking country tunes on here.

Are you really Pete Metzelaars?

[Van_phelaN1]

 

 

First of all, at the moment I don't think we need another stadium.

The Ralph is great.

 

Seats are still affordable

Great sight lines

CHEAP parking (Go to Foxboro if you think you're paying to much)

Very lax tailgating rules

The stadium is in the snow belt (Though it rarely snows during games, instead we get weather like the torent that ripped off the lake during the Griants games a few years back, god that was awesome)

Easy access to and from the stadium

ITS NOT A DOME

 

HAHA My lady and I were at that game, drove up from Albany. I forgot what side of the Ralph I parked in and made her walk wet and cold in the wrong direction before i figured it out. God was she pissed lol.

[Heitz]

What I don't understand is all the talk about this team needing to expand their fan base. Yeah, getting a larger market from Toronto and Southern Ont. would help, but the Bills have made money from day one in this market. I have no fear in the Bills moving because they do what other teams these days fail to do, make money. I don't see the need for one in N.F., build it in the city and try to revive the downtown area.

They need to expand the fan base so that companies across the boarder view the Buffalo Bills as a legit advertising opportunity. They don't really need more "fans" (though I'm sure with the flight from the area we could argue they do), but they do need more corporate dollars...

 

 

In the end this was just supposed to be a fun thread, a "what if". Funny to see tempers flair.

 

Truth be told I love the Ralph and I'm fine with going to games in OP (it's even closer to Bradford and no move is going to make the stadium closer to Vermont). But I would also be open to a downtown or NF stadium - like someone said earlier, hearing and seeing the falls in the background would be sick! Can it happen? Doesn't really matter for a theoretical thread, IMO.

[metzelaars_lives]

Are you really Pete Metzelaars?

 

Yes I am.

[Merle Haggard]

I'm sorry to say but dome stadium sucks!! football should be an out door sport not indoor..

 

Who is saying it should be a dome stadium??? Not me. Retractable roof yes, with the understanding it is always open for home games no matter the weather.

 

Are you in fact the real Merle Haggard and if so, are you retiring from posting here? I'd imagine you could get some good material for some heartbreaking country tunes on here.

 

 

Son, I have no plans on retiring.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Merle Haggard

[Mr. WEO]

Who is saying it should be a dome stadium??? Not me. Retractable roof yes, with the understanding it is always open for home games no matter the weather.

 

 

 

 

Son, I have no plans on retiring.

Why does bad weather favor this Bills team? None of these guys have played much in it?

[notwoz]

But they sell out every game and make a lot of money. It shouldn't matter about the population, it should matter about their success. Look at Green Bay, excluding their historic factor,that area (including Milwaukee), isn't doing great either, but they make money like we do.

 

The fact that Bills fans have been packing the stadium through this 10-year drought is a testament to the fans.

The Bills do sell a lot of tickets, but the tickets they sell are the cheapest in the league. The average ticket price for a Bills' games is a league-low $85.01, according to this morning's Wall Street Journal.

Compare that to the top of the scale:

$265.29 average price for a New York Giants ticket;

$240.83 average price for a New Orleans Saints ticket;

$225.68 average price for a New York Jets ticket.

 

Granted, the top of the range is ridiculous and an example of how professional sports has priced itself out of the market for the "average" fan. But getting back to the Bills:

 

By selling the cheapest seats in the NFL, the Bills almost guarantee that they don't make as much money most other teams in the league.

 

In fact, according to Forbes magazine, the Bills had operating income of $12.4 million in 2007 -- 27 of the 32 teams had higher operating income. To repeat, while they may be selling out a lot of games, they are doing so with the league's lowest average ticket prices.

 

Long story short: Football is a business. The the owners of these businesses are like you and me in one important respect -- we all want to make more money this year than we did last year. And we want to make more money next year than we did this year. The declining population of the Buffalo metropolitan area makes that task more difficult for the Bills with each passing year.

 

So if population doesn't matter, why have the Bills expanded their marketing efforts to Rochester and Ontario? Because they need to put fannies in their bargain-basement seats. There are fewer and fewer enough potential fannies in Buffalo and the nearby suburbs. The result is that they have to expand their potential customer base by expanding their market area.

[Merle Haggard]

Why does bad weather favor this Bills team? None of these guys have played much in it?

 

Well WEO, after week 4 or so, our guys will be living in bad weather. They will adapt which will give us an advantage.

[Dr. Zaius]

Well WEO, after week 4 or so, our guys will be living in bad weather. They will adapt which will give us an advantage.

Man alive, I sure do dig this topic. Thanks a million, Merle! Large.

[Merle Haggard]

Man alive, I sure do dig this topic. Thanks a million, Merle! Large.

 

 

Thanks buddy! Looks like you is a "newbie" around these parts just like myself. Good for you, better for this forum. LOL. Make it a great day Dr. Z!

[Dr. Zaius]

Thanks buddy! Looks like you is a "newbie" around these parts just like myself. Good for you, better for this forum. LOL. Make it a great day Dr. Z!

Thank you, brother. Better times lie ahead for the Buffalo Bills.

Edited September 2, 2010 by Dr. Zaius

[Merle Haggard]

The fact that Bills fans have been packing the stadium through this 10-year drought is a testament to the fans.

The Bills do sell a lot of tickets, but the tickets they sell are the cheapest in the league. The average ticket price for a Bills' games is a league-low $85.01, according to this morning's Wall Street Journal.

Compare that to the top of the scale:

$265.29 average price for a New York Giants ticket;

$240.83 average price for a New Orleans Saints ticket;

$225.68 average price for a New York Jets ticket.

 

Granted, the top of the range is ridiculous and an example of how professional sports has priced itself out of the market for the "average" fan. But getting back to the Bills:

 

By selling the cheapest seats in the NFL, the Bills almost guarantee that they don't make as much money most other teams in the league.

 

In fact, according to Forbes magazine, the Bills had operating income of $12.4 million in 2007 -- 27 of the 32 teams had higher operating income. To repeat, while they may be selling out a lot of games, they are doing so with the league's lowest average ticket prices.

 

Long story short: Football is a business. The the owners of these businesses are like you and me in one important respect -- we all want to make more money this year than we did last year. And we want to make more money next year than we did this year. The declining population of the Buffalo metropolitan area makes that task more difficult for the Bills with each passing year.

 

So if population doesn't matter, why have the Bills expanded their marketing efforts to Rochester and Ontario? Because they need to put fannies in their bargain-basement seats. There are fewer and fewer enough potential fannies in Buffalo and the nearby suburbs. The result is that they have to expand their potential customer base by expanding their market area.

 

Not sure what your point is. Putting it on the edge of the falls would make our venue the envy of the league. A natural draw. An example of the "can do" spirit that makes our part of the country so specail. "Build it and they will come" Simple as that. We should get to it...

[Buffalo Billy]

Hey TheProphet, you were given numerous valid reasons why they can not and will not build a retractible stadium on the falls. You can stop this charade of talking to yourself to bump your own stupid and dead threads back to the front page.

[Merle Haggard]

Hey TheProphet, you were given numerous valid reasons why they can not and will not build a retractible stadium on the falls. You can stop this charade of talking to yourself to bump your own stupid and dead threads back to the front page.

 

Hey guys, Our resident looney toon stalker is at it again. Do you ever post anything football related around here? LOL

 

Billy boy, there is absolutely no reason, from an engineering perspective, why this stadium could not be built on the US side of the mighty falls. It would be the envy of the league. We could market it as one of the seven man made wonders of the world married to one of the seven wonders of the wonder. LOL. Dream big, be big Billy boy. LOL.

[notwoz]

Not sure what your point is. Putting it on the edge of the falls would make our venue the envy of the league. A natural draw. An example of the "can do" spirit that makes our part of the country so specail. "Build it and they will come" Simple as that. We should get to it...

I was responding to Bills1960. Maybe you should try reading through the thread. LOL

 

Your idea is so wrong on so many levels.

First off, I used to live in Niagara Falls and know that the US side has a crap view of the falls. You want a good view, go to Canada.

Second, LOL the land around the falls is owned by NY state. It's part of the park system. It would be a bureaucratic nightmare to even think about buying up that land.

Third, who's going to pay for it? NY residents already suffer under an onerous and crushing tax burden.

 

 

There's an old saying: there's no such thing as a stupid question. Whoever came up with that never read your OP.

[kasper13]

The Falls aren't real. They do not exist. Just an optical illusion. At night, they pull up the curtain and really it's just a big casino. I don't know where they would actually put a stadium in the Falls. I would go Buffalo waterfront first. I think where the Pier used to be would be a good spot.

[Merle Haggard]

I was responding to Bills1960. Maybe you should try reading through the thread. LOL

 

Your idea is so wrong on so many levels.

First off, I used to live in Niagara Falls and know that the US side has a crap view of the falls. You want a good view, go to Canada.

Second, LOL the land around the falls is owned by NY state. It's part of the park system. It would be a bureaucratic nightmare to even think about buying up that land.

Third, who's going to pay for it? NY residents already suffer under an onerous and crushing tax burden.

 

 

There's an old saying: there's no such thing as a stupid question. Whoever came up with that never read your OP.

 

You doubting Thomas types are a hoot. "Oh no, it will never work...the sky is falling...change is bad..." LOL. Dummy.

[notwoz]

You doubting Thomas types are a hoot. "Oh no, it will never work...the sky is falling...change is bad..." LOL. Dummy.

Oh you're so witty LOL

 

Earlier in this thread I asked you what the other six wonders are, and do they have sports arenas built on top of them? You never answered me, dummy. LOL

[ET1062]

I have long thought the idea of a stadium in the falls was the perfect solution. However, the land next to the falls is a new york state state park. It isnt going to happen there. However, you could put it near the base of the rainbow bridge. Canadians could park their cars in Canada and walk to the game and back. All off downtown NF needs to be bulldozed anyways. Plenty of room where the vacant rainbow mall and turtle are located. If the stadium were built with a dome, there is a slight chance of landing the superbowl or final four. Between the two countries, there are more than enough hotel rooms, as this is the off season for tourism. The stadium could feature an NFL Experience tourist attraction, summer visitors for china, india, mexico, japan all want a taste of americana. I brought this idea up serval years ago on here and was mocked, then jim kelly brought it up and all of a sudden it is a great idea. Well, it is a great idea. One hour from toronto and we get to keep our team!

[Ray]

The idea of building the Bills stadium there is actually a very good idea.......but it will never happen without hundreds of millions in money from the state so it is not happening. They could I suppose turn it into a state of the art stadium/tourist attraction as NF NY is the 6th most popular tourist attraction in the US in numbers of visitors (and the Canadian side is WAY better).

You could build a retractable roof stadium, the backdrop setting would be High Rises from the Canadian side and the mist from the Falls and it would be a great scene making Buffalo a great, even more unique environment to play. It is the same distance basically from NF to Buffalo as it is from OP to Buffalo. NF is closer to the important Canadian market and the Rochester contingent will come regardless of where it is as it is the same distance to NF give or take 5 miles.

The problem is the debt service.....it would have to be done while Ralph is alive as no new owner can pay for the debt service of buying the team AND a new stadium in a market like Buffalo.

Keep in mind that Howard Milstein owns 140+ acres in NF, NY and his lead person there is Roger Trevino Jim Kelly's former agent.

Why is that important? Milstein wants an NFL team and tried to buy the Redskins but was outbid by Dan Snyder

[Merle Haggard]

I have long thought the idea of a stadium in the falls was the perfect solution. However, the land next to the falls is a new york state state park. It isnt going to happen there. However, you could put it near the base of the rainbow bridge. Canadians could park their cars in Canada and walk to the game and back. All off downtown NF needs to be bulldozed anyways. Plenty of room where the vacant rainbow mall and turtle are located. If the stadium were built with a dome, there is a slight chance of landing the superbowl or final four. Between the two countries, there are more than enough hotel rooms, as this is the off season for tourism. The stadium could feature an NFL Experience tourist attraction, summer visitors for china, india, mexico, japan all want a taste of americana. I brought this idea up serval years ago on here and was mocked, then jim kelly brought it up and all of a sudden it is a great idea. Well, it is a great idea. One hour from toronto and we get to keep our team!

 

Thanks buddy. Great thoughts. I want to keep it on the US side. My guess is the state would give up some land for the facility in return for the opportunity to make more tax revenue.

 

The idea of building the Bills stadium there is actually a very good idea.......but it will never happen without hundreds of millions in money from the state so it is not happening. They could I suppose turn it into a state of the art stadium/tourist attraction as NF NY is the 6th most popular tourist attraction in the US in numbers of visitors (and the Canadian side is WAY better).

You could build a retractable roof stadium, the backdrop setting would be High Rises from the Canadian side and the mist from the Falls and it would be a great scene making Buffalo a great, even more unique environment to play. It is the same distance basically from NF to Buffalo as it is from OP to Buffalo. NF is closer to the important Canadian market and the Rochester contingent will come regardless of where it is as it is the same distance to NF give or take 5 miles.

The problem is the debt service.....it would have to be done while Ralph is alive as no new owner can pay for the debt service of buying the team AND a new stadium in a market like Buffalo.

Keep in mind that Howard Milstein owns 140+ acres in NF, NY and his lead person there is Roger Trevino Jim Kelly's former agent.

Why is that important? Milstein wants an NFL team and tried to buy the Redskins but was outbid by Dan Snyder

 

Thanks Ray. Never say never my man. Dream big, be big. LOL.

[dave mcbride]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/sports/08stadium.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=stadiums&st=cse

[Merle Haggard]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/08/sports/08stadium.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=stadiums&st=cse

 

Not all stadium deals are losers. Doing nothing while the Ralph becomes further and further outdated is no answer. Think boldly here.