Prop 8 struck down

[Heels20X6]

 

If these people are really for "Defense of Marriage" they need to toughen laws on spousal abuse, polygamy, child abuse and adultery. For some reason though defending marriage doesn't have anything to do with that. It only has to do gays marrying. If the same amount of work was put into those issues they'd be defending marriage a lot better, JMO.

 

 

Well said. I see them doing NOTHING to curb the 50% divorce rate that this nation seems to have. Plenty of maladjusted children come from broken homes. Why don't you spend your time there and fix that first instead of denying couples the right to see if they can raise a family, m'kay?

[The Dean]

See, this is a fallacy. TRUE conservatives (not the "religious right") could truly give a rat's pa toot about gay marriage. It's the "religious right" that have somehow become the voice of the Republican party and have made this out to be an issue.

 

 

I agree. Well, at least I get your point. I know plenty of self-proclaimed conservatives who think just that way. But when they get in bed with the religious right (as they often do) and have tea-party cuddle parties, does it really matter?

 

A good buddy of mine has a bumper sticker that reads: Conservative doesn't mean Racist.

 

I tell him, "too bad they so often come together in the same package."

 

I am still waiting for these "true conservatives" to champion civil rights with the verve they try to protect their pocketbook. Seems to me they are usually standing with the bigots who attempt to stop any social progress.

[Heels20X6]

There's that little separation of religion clause. If a religion wants to deny gays the opportunity to get married within its hallowed grounds, then it's the religion's choice. Just like partitions for men & women in ultraorthodox Jewish temples & in mosques. Or male only priests? Discriminatory? Yeah. Legal? Yeah.

 

The state should be out of marriage because it's a religious institution. The state only got involved in it because it didn't dawn on anyone at the time that there would be a problem down the road.

 

This makes too much sense. So naturally it will never happen....

[The Avenger]

See, this is a fallacy. TRUE conservatives (not the "religious right") could truly give a rat's pa toot about gay marriage. It's the "religious right" that have somehow become the voice of the Republican party and have made this out to be an issue.

 

 

Depends on how you define conservative - I was defining in social terms ("social conservative"). Sadly, social conservatives have had so much sway over the right that social conservatives have been almost synonymous with conservative. You're right - conseravtives who don't care much about social issues could care less about this issue, but these folks have been far less vocal then their social conservative cousins.

[Heels20X6]

Depends on how you define conservative - I was defining in social terms ("social conservative"). Sadly, social conservatives have had so much sway over the right that social conservatives have been almost synonymous with conservative. You're right - conseravtives who don't care much about social issues could care less about this issue, but these folks have been far less vocal then their social conservative cousins.

 

 

You and Dean both make good points. I think the fiscal conservatives chose to lie in bed with social conservatives because it was a means to an end. Which were the numbers to get the Republicans into office.

[PromoTheRobot]

Who cares about prop 8? I want prop 19 to pass

 

PTR

[John Adams]

You and Dean both make good points. I think the fiscal conservatives chose to lie in bed with social conservatives because it was a means to an end. Which were the numbers to get the Republicans into office.

 

Reagan's big tent created the mess of the Republican Party. When the fiscal people married the traditional southern Democrats to form Reagan's "big tent" Republican Party, it was the end of a fiscal conservative/small government major party presence. Reagan used the big tent to attack big government but subsequent fiscal conservatives have been hampered by having to cowtow to the big government religious right.

 

So ironically, fiscal conservatives (like me) have to look at one of their heroes (Reagan) as the architects of the demise of fiscal conservatism.

[PromoTheRobot]

Depends on how you define conservative - I was defining in social terms ("social conservative"). Sadly, social conservatives have had so much sway over the right that social conservatives have been almost synonymous with conservative. You're right - conseravtives who don't care much about social issues could care less about this issue, but these folks have been far less vocal then their social conservative cousins.

Very true. So many people who call themselves "conservative" are anything but.

 

PTR

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Not under equal protection.

 

And CA legalizing pot doesn't preclude drug possession being a federal crime...which is the point, knucklehead. Federal statute takes precedent over state law. CA can legalize slavery and kidnapping if they want...it'll still be illegal under federal law.

 

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

You mean another law I don't agree with? That's called consistency, not the typical hypocrisy most of you show when you cherry pick the **** your religion tells you to be pissed about.

 

That's all I'm asking for here, if we're going to be CONSISTENT in protecting people's "rights," let's get rid of things like Affirmative Action, Welfare, The War on Drugs, et al as well.

 

But, you see, that'll never happen. Because those above things (as well as gay marraige) make people FEEL good.

[DC Tom]

Gotcha. Thanks!

 

 

You're welcome. But you're still a knucklehead.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

You're welcome. But you're still a knucklehead.

 

 

Never claimed otherwise.

 

[Peevo]

I fail to understand what's such a big deal about gay's getting married. Seriously, how does it negatively affect any one else?

 

I think they deserve to be just a miserable as the rest of us. The only negative thing that might end up empirically affected in my opinion? The national divorce rate.

 

I, like many of my generation, fail to see the benefit and tangible realistic expectations of marriage. Being with the same person for the rest of your life? Seems far fetched from a child of divorce. I dunno, that's just me.

 

The days of the male/female/2 kids/dog nuclear family are WAY over, if ever they really existed in the first place.

[DC Tom]

I fail to understand what's such a big deal about gay's getting married. Seriously, how does it negatively affect any one else?

 

Mostly because of the religious connotation to the word "marriage". You poll people on "Should gays in committed, monogamous relationships be permitted to have those relationships legally recognized?", you'll get a lot more positive responses than to "Should gays be allowed to get married?"

[IDBillzFan]

I, like many of my generation, fail to see the benefit and tangible realistic expectations of marriage. Being with the same person for the rest of your life? Seems far fetched from a child of divorce. I dunno, that's just me.

Typically I'm not a big fan of "It's a (fill in the blank) thing, you wouldn't understand," but the simple truth is that I get more enjoyment, pride and sense of accomplishment from my marriage and family than any other thing I've ever experienced/accomplished in my life; not career, not salary, not awards...nothing even comes close. There's no way I would expect you to understand that, but suffice it to say that I came from a family that dealt with more than just a divorce and was forever soured on the ideas of marriage and a family. Then, one day, it all made sense to me. Doesn't mean it's that way for everyone, but I'd suggest that keeping your mind open to it is never a bad thing.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Yeah, that would work fine. You want to be civilly unioned? Go to the courthouse and sign the papers.

 

You want to be married? Go to the Fairy house and float around in the magic pixie dust if that's what you believe in, but leave the "marriages" to whatever religion wants to define it as.

 

I'd be for that.

[Peevo]

Mostly because of the religious connotation to the word "marriage". You poll people on "Should gays in committed, monogamous relationships be permitted to have those relationships legally recognized?", you'll get a lot more positive responses than to "Should gays be allowed to get married?"

 

 

Well put.

[Trader]

I hope Fred Phelps's head just exploded

 

This post has anything to do with the Buffalo Bills?

[The Dean]

This post has anything to do with the Buffalo Bills?

 

 

Seeing how it is on the Off The Wall forum, it is not Bills-related.

[DrDawkinstein]

This post has anything to do with the Buffalo Bills?

 

whats your point, homie?