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My GUESS is Spillrt at #2 WR


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Thurman Thomas weighed 206. Spiller is 196. Spiller is NOT a Thurman-sized back, and Thurman played 10 years ago. Linebackers, linemen and most importantly, RBs have gotten bigger since then. Thurman was pretty much average-sized when he played.

 

Even the FO has acknowledged that Spiller won't be a full-time back. The reason is that he's too small. He's a Reggie Bush type, and will be used that way.

 

The fact that you don't like talking about it doesn't affect the fact - and it's a fact - that it's a major issue.

Chris Johnson 5-11 200 lbs

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so I guess he's too small too then right?

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You spent a lot of time thinking about something so retarded

 

Wow not only is that a very intelligent comment it's also very insightful. You are obviously far less retarded than the OP. :devil:

 

Chris Johnson 5-11 200 lbs

Link

 

so I guess he's too small too then right?

 

Obviously, if he was 210 pounds he'd have had 2,500 yards last season. :flirt:

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its so adorable how some people think you just line a rb outside and he becomes a wr

 

incredibly bold but not really so bold prediction: theres absolutely no way in hell that spiller becomes in any way shape or form a wr2. in fact, if he splits wide more than three times all season i will eat marshawns dreads

 

even if you want to assume spiller has hands as good as a wr (which he probably doesnt, more likely vgood for a rb but no better than average for a wr) there is an entire universe of wr technique that has to be learned, especially for the outside receivers who are farther from the qb (thus needing more separation) and going against the top cbs. at the pro level the diff btwn players is so slight that its tiny adjustments that determine who wins the wr/db battle. you dont just step onto the field and run routes and expect to get open cuz youll get your ass handed to you

 

in fact, i doubt we will even see spiller in the slot more than once per game until midseason. thurman had excellent hands for a rb and it took him a couple seasons before they were having him run any kind of wr routes with consistency

 

spiller will be used for classic rb passes: screens, flares, primary outlets, that kind of thing. other than to throw off the defense and get him some experience running nfl routes, he is not going to be used as any kind of consistent wr this season, probably not ever

 

you may now return to your regularly scheduled wild speculation

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I doubt we will see this declared officially on the depth chart until it happens so as not to tip our hand but my sense is:

 

1. There is an obvious opening for a #2 WR-

 

In fact when we let TO walk we actually are letting go our WR that finished 1st in receptions and total yards and Evans finished a mere 1 TD ahead of TO whom we let go. Lets take it as a given that Evans is the #1 WR (even though statistically he was not) but this merely even more sharply identifies we are missing a #2 WR.

 

2. There are several candidates for this essential #2 role but none is a lock to step up into this job=

 

A. Johnson is highly regarded by all, but the statistical fact (which does not determine anything for sure but is an indicator which cannot be logically totally ignored) is that he regressed in achievements last year with fewer receptions, yards and games played. There was simply little or no nothing about Edwards which indicated he simply demands to play with his accomplishments on the field.

 

B. Hardy has collegiate accomplishments, great height (this cannot be taught), and a nice TD pm a fade route early in his rookie year but simply defines the saying that potential means you have not done anything real yet.

 

C. Easley is well regarded in the draft books and most agree the Bills got a steal in the 4th. However. Gailey is not a fool who is gonna demand that this rookie step in an immediately force single coverage opportunities for Evans.

 

These three are all viable plan Bs but little else.

 

3. There are strong reasobs why Spiller might be a good candidate to be at least as viable a plan B as the three young potential heir apparents.

 

 

A. Spiller's rep demands he be on the field- He is a top 10 choice for a reason and he has to get a chunk of touches in order to make this a reasonable choice.

 

B. Touches are gonna be harder to get at RB where Spiller is at best #2 behind Jackson and the #3 is a former Pro Bowler.

 

C. He had reasonable output as a receiver in college and his write ups specifically site him as a threat to line up wide at WR. Reggie Bush is an example often sited about how to use him productively.

 

D. His small size has folks questioning already whether he is a 3 down RB.

 

4. There are great strategic advantages to using him as a WR.

 

1. If he is used regularly as split end, it forces opposing teams to deal with two WRs who both demand a very fast CB or a double cover over and under.

 

A. Spiller's speed on the opposite side from Evans automatically makes Evans have more shots as simply dting Evana becomes more difficult to dicey for a DC to do. Either you single cover Evans and do not cover him tight or you over and under both him tight under with someone over if he runs a fly. You almost have to do the same with Spiller. He will have run a few fly patterns (and even better catch some long passes and even better score some TDs in order to make folks respect him, but the Evans/Spillrer set is scary fast. The Jets will likely give Revis one on one with Evans a lot the first game but Gailey should at least challenge this by splitting out Spiller and throwing to him a lot at WR.

 

B. Spiller has already show his broken field running ability in college. Pro athletes are bigger and faster and Spiller will need help finding space as a pro. Quick passes, near illegal picks, and slant patterns are ways to get Spiller the ball in space to him without him having to run past people like he did in college.

 

C. The Bills are showing signs already that an assumption of a trade of Lynch may not happen. Unless the Bills start running the wishbone its hard for me to see how they get all three RBs on the field at the same time without using Spiller as a WR. If all three are on the field at the same time it presents real challenges for the DC.

 

If I am Gailey I am working hard on getting Spiller in the game as my #2 WR.

 

come on man be serious!

 

the guy is a great freaking running back who can catch the ball. at least act like you know something about the guy even if you dont as is evidenced by this stupid comment.

 

they will use him in a myriad of ways in the passing game ,out of the backfield and in the slot and yes once in a while he will be split wide but you can bet your last dollar he will NOT be a starting # 2 receiver. he's a great freaking running back the best in the country.

 

to say he is going to be our #2 receiver is flat out stupid.

 

lastly who says he is behind jackson and lynch as a running back are you out of your freaking head. is CJ behind jackson and lynch.

 

well CJ and spiller are the same type of back they are like mirrors of each other. they said the same things you are saying about CJ in regards to his size when he came out of collage thats why CJ dropped so far. well spiller didnt drop for a reason even with his size and you know why its because running backs like him are a very rare piece of property.

 

he has unbelievable running ability and elite speed then he is equally adept(better than CJ )at catching the ball. there are not many running backs like that. players like that come out once every 10 years.

 

the talent level of spiller as a running back compared to jackson or lynch are not even on the same planet. really man give me a break. your comments get nuttier by the minute.

 

christ when he was picked gruden called him the best player in the draft and said he would be OROY.

 

#2 receiver really ridiculous comment just incredabilly ridiculous!

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I imagine he will be utilized a lot like Reggie Bush.

I imagine he will be a lot like Chris Johnson. Similar size. Similar speed. Johnson was 5' 11" 197 pounds when drafted in 2008 and now is a hefty 200.

It'd be terrible to see Spiller ripping up the NFL in a similar manner. The negative Nancys of TBD will be beside themselves in a twin-kiss of agony and joy.

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its so adorable how some people think you just line a rb outside and he becomes a wr

 

incredibly bold but not really so bold prediction: theres absolutely no way in hell that spiller becomes in any way shape or form a wr2. in fact, if he splits wide more than three times all season i will eat marshawns dreads

 

even if you want to assume spiller has hands as good as a wr (which he probably doesnt, more likely vgood for a rb but no better than average for a wr) there is an entire universe of wr technique that has to be learned, especially for the outside receivers who are farther from the qb (thus needing more separation) and going against the top cbs. at the pro level the diff btwn players is so slight that its tiny adjustments that determine who wins the wr/db battle. you dont just step onto the field and run routes and expect to get open cuz youll get your ass handed to you

 

in fact, i doubt we will even see spiller in the slot more than once per game until midseason. thurman had excellent hands for a rb and it took him a couple seasons before they were having him run any kind of wr routes with consistency

 

spiller will be used for classic rb passes: screens, flares, primary outlets, that kind of thing. other than to throw off the defense and get him some experience running nfl routes, he is not going to be used as any kind of consistent wr this season, probably not ever

 

you may now return to your regularly scheduled wild speculation

While I agree that I doubt he's lined-up outside (he'll start in the backfield and move into one of the slot positions), he's got WR-caliber talent. Actually "gifted receiver" is what I've read about him.

 

And as for not being a full-time back, he won't have to be. There are 2 other RB's. He'll be played at WR (again, in the slot) and as a returnman.

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While I agree that I doubt he's lined-up outside (he'll start in the backfield and move into one of the slot positions), he's got WR-caliber talent. Actually "gifted receiver" is what I've read about him.

 

And as for not being a full-time back, he won't have to be. There are 2 other RB's. He'll be played at WR (again, in the slot) and as a returnman.

You mean like Parrish?

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I can't believe you're wasting your own time thinking about this.

 

Why do you even care that he is "wasting" his time? If it's important enough for him to write a serious post then I will respect it. If this post is a waste of time for you, then why are you wasting your time responding? Again. WHY DO YOU CARE?

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come on man be serious!

 

the guy is a great freaking running back who can catch the ball. at least act like you know something about the guy even if you dont as is evidenced by this stupid comment.

 

they will use him in a myriad of ways in the passing game ,out of the backfield and in the slot and yes once in a while he will be split wide but you can bet your last dollar he will NOT be a starting # 2 receiver. he's a great freaking running back the best in the country.

 

to say he is going to be our #2 receiver is flat out stupid.

 

lastly who says he is behind jackson and lynch as a running back are you out of your freaking head. is CJ behind jackson and lynch.

 

well CJ and spiller are the same type of back they are like mirrors of each other. they said the same things you are saying about CJ in regards to his size when he came out of collage thats why CJ dropped so far. well spiller didnt drop for a reason even with his size and you know why its because running backs like him are a very rare piece of property.

 

he has unbelievable running ability and elite speed then he is equally adept(better than CJ )at catching the ball. there are not many running backs like that. players like that come out once every 10 years.

 

the talent level of spiller as a running back compared to jackson or lynch are not even on the same planet. really man give me a break. your comments get nuttier by the minute.

 

christ when he was picked gruden called him the best player in the draft and said he would be OROY.

 

#2 receiver really ridiculous comment just incredabilly ridiculous!

Nah!

 

Actually, I am not totally opposed to what you say.

 

My thought would be that yes Spiller is an RB and not a WR. That is the simple fact of how he was trained.

 

However, back here in the real world, we have an example of a larger jump which was made by a far less athletically talented player on our own Buffalo Bills. The simple fact was that George Wilson was a WR (and actually not one who was really capable of helping this team get Ws as a playing WR -getting Ws afterall is what it is all about or do you disagree and you advocate a strategy where a fundamental tenet id getting Ls).

 

At any rate the braintrust made the correct judgment that Wilson was a good enough athlete and that actually as a by-product of his learning WR stuff he had demonstrated to the coaches the potential to make the huge and pretty much never done leap from O to D.

 

Wilson actually succeeded in not only making the jump but actually though no one would mistake him for being one of the best safeties, he actually contributed to this team in a real way (it can even be measured tangibly in his turnovers caused and he even led to scores) that in a shorter time than seemed possible he was a credible safety and even starter on this not as good as we want it to be team.

 

Actually, I flat out say that Spiller should remain an RB on our depth chart until he proves he can handle the #2 WR slot.

 

However what I think is ridiculous is you claiming this cannot be done when:

 

1. Lesser talented players have actually made larger jumps from other positions (Even from O to D in the Wilson case and from TE to RT and even the critical LT position in Peters case).

 

2. One of the written claims made about Spiller which got him a top ten picks were claims such as this found in the synopsis of Tillers at one third party web site >Considered an excellent receiver with very good route running abilities and can line up wide outside. < IF this turns out to be true (emphasis on the IF) and his route running ability are in fact a cut above the rest it would actually be foolish not see how fast he might be able to gain the additional route running ability you site above as differentiating a WR from an RB.

 

3. OTA, mandatory camps, and the pre-season is exactly the time when you use competition to see what elite college athletes can do in the pro game. IF (and again a big emphasis on the word IF and actually this is exactly what off season bantering by us outside observers is useful for on forums like TSW) Gailey wants to see if Spiller provides advantages for us as a #2 then you begin by:

 

a. Seeing what he can do absorbing the playbook thrown at all rookies in terms of whether he understands the route running needed for a #2 WR.

b. Teach him and see how he does it in practice.

c. Results that work well you build on them and if they do not work well or he is slow to sign and misses a chunk of pre-season and valuable teaching time (see Maybin whom I think the Bills always envisioned as a position switch from DE to OLB but he missed enough camp it essentially cashiered the season because he simply was not quick enough mentally for the coaches to abandon the plan B they were working on to go back and backfill educating Maybin) you jettison the idea of using Spiller out wide and go with Johnson, Hardy, Easley or some FA as your #2.

d. You definitely run Spiller in motion, but then again maybe you do not line him up wide in a pre-season game even if you plan to use him like Reggie Bush cause you do not want to tip off opponents that they will see Spiller as a wide even 2 or 3 times agame (much less if he is such a superior athlete in our closed practices he wins a WR job.

 

The bottomline is that as I said in my original post it well maybe the case that Spiller does not win the job as #2WR right away such that it is legit or intelligent to hand him the job until he proves in actual play that he can overcome the disadvantage of not being a fulltime WR route runner in college (btw to some extent I think your post exaggerates what collegiate WRs learn about route running that applies to their pro careers. If anything, ironically, a player like James Hardy actually had little practice in the skills needed to run a successful NFL route because for years he was simply taller, stronger, faster and likely had a better QB laying the ball out for him in college than he found trying to run routes as a pro. Player after player simply says it is a different game as a pro than in college as the tactics and route running which they had used successfully for years as they only faced elite opponents once or twice a season now they face them every week. For Spiller I think the big barrier for him to succeed as a #2 WR player is actually not whether he can translate his skills to a different offensive position but whether he is in fact a good enough athlete and dynamic player that he can make he jump to be a successful NFL player at any position based on what he has done in mere college.

 

A player like Mike Williams pretty clearly had the physical skills to have a pretty good rookies season, but it was actually the loss of the grandma that played the role of his mother which did him in mentally. Mouse MacNally did a very good job of launching sticks to find fault with this man-boy who used the "excuse" of this unfortunate death to get excused from OTA and show up at camp as a blimp. JMac then used carrots like working with Williams and awarding him a game ball when he held a solid opposing DE sackless. However, one off-season without a father figure (or grandma figure in his case) and he played his way to G and off the team.

 

Can Spiller make the jump to #2 WR? I do not know but am quite comfortable GUESSING he will not achieve this such that he will be placed on the depth chart as #2WR until he proves to be useful to take that role.

 

However, what I tried to say (I will try to type more slowly for you and others in the future) is that the only thing which would be ridiculous would be for Gailey not to try this in OTAs etc.

 

In fact the most compelling thing to get me think about this as a possibility was actually the impression which Lynch has now given many of us that he is quite happy to remain a Bill.

 

Perhaps Lynch and the FO have both agreed that the best way to get him a trade is to convince other teams not to lowball the Bills because they think he is out of here (maybe). However, it is hard for me to see how he would be happy about staying unless he has figured out some method of getting a sufficient number of touches each game.

 

This is gonna be hard enough to do sharing the RB slot with his good buddy Fred. Its virtually impossible to see him getting enough touches (or even being active all 16 games) if he is behind Jax and Spiller on the RB depth chart.

 

My GUESS is that Lynch has been informed (either directly in a phone call (s) with his HC and RB coach, or indirectly through what are likely frequent talks with his good buddy Jackson how the Gailey plans to use his plethora of RB talent.

 

The bottomline is that the Bills will need to get Spiller a pretty good chunk of touches. The consensus is that he is not the 3 down back Lynch likes to be and Jackson has show skill, diversity and toughness at being.

 

It is in fact hard for me to see how the Bills get Spiller the touches mandated by his high draft position and also get him running on the outside (again the consensus seems to be he is better running on the outside) than to simply run him in motion, line him up in the slot or line him up wide and simply have him take a step back (there is talk he is even faster than Evans) and the opposing DB is likely way of the TOS on him and then throw him the ball in space and turn him lose on the on rushing or flat footed DB.

 

Think about it.

 

You are an opposing DC.

 

The approach which has proved successful before is to attack the Bills and take away their weapons.

 

First, I put 7 (or maybe 8) guys in the box with the primary duties of stopping the run and pressuring the QB. I have two guys over and under Evans (or maybe if I have a Pro Bowl talent like Revis single him but really the dt has been pretty effective at producing #s like the ones which saw TO lead this team in recepts and yards last year) and then single the #2 WR where the candidates are the regressing Johnson the injured Hardy or rookie Easley (its in fact so bad if TOs market rate has dropped to a low enough level he and the Bills may even start sniffing around each others buts).

 

If it is Spiller out there on an island with the 2nd best DB on an opposing team I am a lot more afraid for them than I am for us in this situation. In fact, there are situations where this may actually force the DC to demand a player like Revis single cover Evans so he can overunder Spiller so he cannot make an easy catch by stepping back and then getting the DB to miss his first hit, but with the deep dt he cannot simply outrun tight coverage with a fly pattern.

 

Using both Lynch and Jackson together in a 2 RB set (notice FB is a low priority for us) and then using Spiller, in motion, in the slot, and even out wide (again who is your proven #2 WR for us) creates huge challenges for a DC.

 

I totally admit I am only GUESSING what Gailey is gonna do. The things I do know are that:

 

1. Many judge him and he has some results which indicate he is an offensive genius and in fact he is gonna come up with something if he is a genius that mere mortals like you and me will flat out think is ridiculous (yes Virginia your vehement argument style actually makes me feel even more sure Gailey is gonna do something that those of us with fact-free opinions like you and me will find weird)

 

2. A successful Gailey plan will either need to employ better players than we have or be something that fools or is difficult to anticipate by DCs who are least unlike you and me paid to think about this stuff all the time (and in some cases have forgotten more than us armchair coaches will ever learn about the game. Whatever he does if it is gonna be successful is gonna be something us armchair types see as ridiculous.

 

3. In the end, the best comments on my blatherings are not those which prove what I offer as a GUESS is ridiculous, but the best responses offer up some different scheme or position assignments which will do the job.

 

Th wildcat theorizing or even undefined calls for some 3RB sets which employ Jax, Spiller, and Lynch (wishbone T anyone)

are actually more interesting posts than ones which rag on even challenging Spiller to master wide out use (which virtually all see him trying some) and forcing his way onto the field on 75% of offensive plays or more rather than being useful only as a boutique player in relief of the vet Jackson and dueling with a former Pro Bowler for his back-up time.

 

In fact, I would not be surprised if the primary advocate for trying Spiller as the #4 with greater usage of 3 WR sets or ion fact going for the #2 WR slot (actually the #2 slot may be an easier competition for Spiller to win because the Bills are hanging on to Parrish and speed and proven broken field running ability is his game and he has proven he is game to catch in the middle of the field when it is just this in traffic stuff we are trying to avoid with Spiller, his comp for the #2 WR if this were to be his chosen method to be on the field for most offensive snaps is actually a bunch of highly questionable players with the stat regressing Johnson being the toughest competition.

 

If I was Spiller one of my first actions would have been to get first Gailey and then OC/RB Coach Modkins if necessary and/pr useful to let me approach WR Coach Hixon about getting his pointers and input on receiving technique. This is a natural request anyway and he might have been told to do this as past of a strategy for Reggie Bush use. As soon as I got to Hixon or maybe I do this with Gailey I say put me in coach at wherever you want because I want to start every offensive play and that includes earning a starting wideout slot.

 

If Spiller want to help the team, start a lot (I think even switching positions he would face totally unproven competition for #2 WR while he would be facing off against the team leaders in total yards and a former Pro Bowler at RB. You think he has enough confidence in himself that he thinks he could beat out his RB competition who he at best will split touches with but somehow think he does not have the confidence that he is a good enough athlete to do a difficult position jump but face unproven competitors.

 

Spiller may be the best behind the scene advocate for the move I theorize unless Gailey has already beaten him to the idea.

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chan uses zone blocking in the running game, spiller is a great running back with exceptional recieving abilities, that is how he will be used, he wont be converted to WR, he'll get 10-20 touches as a RB and split out 5-10 plays. Spiller is the most physically gifted runner on this team. Also, remember, at 5-11, he's better suited to RB, not WR, we already have lee evans

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chan uses zone blocking in the running game, spiller is a great running back with exceptional recieving abilities, that is how he will be used, he wont be converted to WR, he'll get 10-20 touches as a RB and split out 5-10 plays. Spiller is the most physically gifted runner on this team. Also, remember, at 5-11, he's better suited to RB, not WR, we already have lee evans

 

 

Talk like this makes me froth at the mouth for good things to come :beer:

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i honestly think spiller will finish up with roughly 1300-1500 yds from scrimmage plus KO/PR yds and 10 or more total TDS, but thats just me.

 

 

I'm hoping for 800 plus. I prefer you to be right tho. I'm seriously

considering picking him up in the fantasy draft if he slides. He might

be my Ray Rice for this year.

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I'm hoping for 800 plus. I prefer you to be right tho. I'm seriously

considering picking him up in the fantasy draft if he slides. He might

be my Ray Rice for this year.

i plan on picking him up definitely, although earlier cause around here a clemson fan in my league will pick him early just because

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I doubt we will see this declared officially on the depth chart until it happens so as not to tip our hand but my sense is:

 

1. There is an obvious opening for a #2 WR-

 

In fact when we let TO walk we actually are letting go our WR that finished 1st in receptions and total yards and Evans finished a mere 1 TD ahead of TO whom we let go. Lets take it as a given that Evans is the #1 WR (even though statistically he was not) but this merely even more sharply identifies we are missing a #2 WR.

 

2. There are several candidates for this essential #2 role but none is a lock to step up into this job=

 

A. Johnson is highly regarded by all, but the statistical fact (which does not determine anything for sure but is an indicator which cannot be logically totally ignored) is that he regressed in achievements last year with fewer receptions, yards and games played. There was simply little or no nothing about Edwards which indicated he simply demands to play with his accomplishments on the field.

 

B. Hardy has collegiate accomplishments, great height (this cannot be taught), and a nice TD pm a fade route early in his rookie year but simply defines the saying that potential means you have not done anything real yet.

 

C. Easley is well regarded in the draft books and most agree the Bills got a steal in the 4th. However. Gailey is not a fool who is gonna demand that this rookie step in an immediately force single coverage opportunities for Evans.

 

These three are all viable plan Bs but little else.

 

3. There are strong reasobs why Spiller might be a good candidate to be at least as viable a plan B as the three young potential heir apparents.

 

 

A. Spiller's rep demands he be on the field- He is a top 10 choice for a reason and he has to get a chunk of touches in order to make this a reasonable choice.

 

B. Touches are gonna be harder to get at RB where Spiller is at best #2 behind Jackson and the #3 is a former Pro Bowler.

 

C. He had reasonable output as a receiver in college and his write ups specifically site him as a threat to line up wide at WR. Reggie Bush is an example often sited about how to use him productively.

 

D. His small size has folks questioning already whether he is a 3 down RB.

 

4. There are great strategic advantages to using him as a WR.

 

1. If he is used regularly as split end, it forces opposing teams to deal with two WRs who both demand a very fast CB or a double cover over and under.

 

A. Spiller's speed on the opposite side from Evans automatically makes Evans have more shots as simply dting Evana becomes more difficult to dicey for a DC to do. Either you single cover Evans and do not cover him tight or you over and under both him tight under with someone over if he runs a fly. You almost have to do the same with Spiller. He will have run a few fly patterns (and even better catch some long passes and even better score some TDs in order to make folks respect him, but the Evans/Spillrer set is scary fast. The Jets will likely give Revis one on one with Evans a lot the first game but Gailey should at least challenge this by splitting out Spiller and throwing to him a lot at WR.

 

B. Spiller has already show his broken field running ability in college. Pro athletes are bigger and faster and Spiller will need help finding space as a pro. Quick passes, near illegal picks, and slant patterns are ways to get Spiller the ball in space to him without him having to run past people like he did in college.

 

C. The Bills are showing signs already that an assumption of a trade of Lynch may not happen. Unless the Bills start running the wishbone its hard for me to see how they get all three RBs on the field at the same time without using Spiller as a WR. If all three are on the field at the same time it presents real challenges for the DC.

 

If I am Gailey I am working hard on getting Spiller in the game as my #2 WR.

Good idea for the Pee Wee league.

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