bbillyfootballcoach Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 after the trent dilfer thread I had to start my own... how do you trent supporters explain the many plays where trent had lots of time, and still dumped it off? there were over 50 plays last year that no one got close to him. He did his usual...- look left- look right- find fred- dump it off. When TO called him out finally, was TO wrong? Does TO not know offense or the "inside" on whats really going on? Was Fitzpatricks better production due to a different line? Why did Trent always play bad once people took away the dump off? He played bad for 3 coordinators and 3 lines. Always the dump off or a 5 hard hitch. WOW! Exciting stuff. Quit wishing for him to be good, he never will be, never. Every game with him starting is a charity event. I cant believe how long it takes both bills fans and coaches alike, to see how bad a QB really is. Calling rob johnson..., how many starts did he get? I bet his stats are close to trents now. Can someone do a comparison for me? Im too busy hating trent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Cool story, bro! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 after the trent dilfer thread I had to start my own... how do you trent supporters explain the many plays where trent had lots of time, and still dumped it off? there were over 50 plays last year that no one got close to him. He did his usual...- look left- look right- find fred- dump it off. When TO called him out finally, was TO wrong? Does TO not know offense or the "inside" on whats really going on? Was Fitzpatricks better production due to a different line? Why did Trent always play bad once people took away the dump off? He played bad for 3 coordinators and 3 lines. Always the dump off or a 5 hard hitch. WOW! Exciting stuff. Quit wishing for him to be good, he never will be, never. Every game with him starting is a charity event. I cant believe how long it takes both bills fans and coaches alike, to see how bad a QB really is. Calling rob johnson..., how many starts did he get? I bet his stats are close to trents now. Can someone do a comparison for me? Im too busy hating trent. What an original post... I am not going to do your work for you, but I will bet that Rob Johnson's stats were much better than Trent Edwards are. Of course, the fact that they played on two completely different squads, sharing only an owner in common, might mean somehting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpl6876 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 after the trent dilfer thread I had to start my own... how do you trent supporters explain the many plays where trent had lots of time, and still dumped it off? there were over 50 plays last year that no one got close to him. He did his usual...- look left- look right- find fred- dump it off. When TO called him out finally, was TO wrong? Does TO not know offense or the "inside" on whats really going on? Was Fitzpatricks better production due to a different line? Why did Trent always play bad once people took away the dump off? He played bad for 3 coordinators and 3 lines. Always the dump off or a 5 hard hitch. WOW! Exciting stuff. Quit wishing for him to be good, he never will be, never. Every game with him starting is a charity event. I cant believe how long it takes both bills fans and coaches alike, to see how bad a QB really is. Calling rob johnson..., how many starts did he get? I bet his stats are close to trents now. Can someone do a comparison for me? Im too busy hating trent. For the most part, I agree with your post. I do not think Trent has the skills or mentality to be a good pro QB. I believe the evidence is there to support this statement. He has played many games and your observations are quite correct IMO. He doesn't seem to have the vision and the confidence to throw the ball downfield. Also, I don't think he has the intangeables to be a leader. I am not a believer that Chan Gailey can make him a winner, a leader, and a productive QB. Personally, I think the Bills have a better shot at winning with Fitz. Granted he isn't a great QB and not a first stringer QB either. Not to mention quite inaccurate at times. He isn't the future and he will probably not play much this year. Just my opinion. But the thing I like about him is that he throws the ball downfield and he doesn't play scared. Bottom line is we need to find a franchise QB. Edwards, Fitz, Brohm, and most likely Levi are not the answers. Our QB situation is pretty bad. We are grasping at straws and hoping Chan can work his magic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yall Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 At least RJ had a pair.... (of 300 yard passing games ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 after the trent dilfer thread I had to start my own... how do you trent supporters explain the many plays where trent had lots of time, and still dumped it off? there were over 50 plays last year that no one got close to him. He did his usual...- look left- look right- find fred- dump it off. When TO called him out finally, was TO wrong? Does TO not know offense or the "inside" on whats really going on? Was Fitzpatricks better production due to a different line? Why did Trent always play bad once people took away the dump off? He played bad for 3 coordinators and 3 lines. Always the dump off or a 5 hard hitch. WOW! Exciting stuff. Quit wishing for him to be good, he never will be, never. Every game with him starting is a charity event. I cant believe how long it takes both bills fans and coaches alike, to see how bad a QB really is. Calling rob johnson..., how many starts did he get? I bet his stats are close to trents now. Can someone do a comparison for me? Im too busy hating trent. Sorry Edwards fans, Rob Johnson was better... Rob Johnson Games 26 TDs 27 % 64 INT 17 Trent Edwards Games 30 TDs 24 % 61 INT 25 But these Edwards fans will somehow still feel the need to ignore the obvious, ignore what they have witnessed the last two seasons and buy into the moronic thoughts of a bad ex-NFL QB turned bad NFL analyst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Ask and you shall receive (I only used Johnson's time in Buffalo) W-L-Comp-Att-Comp%-Yds-Yds/Att-TD-Int-Sacks Johnson 9-17-401-663-60.5%-4798-7.2-27-17-110 Edwards 14-16-506-826-61.3%-5498-6.7-24-25-58 Their stat lines are relatively similar. One glaring difference is Johnson's 110 sacks which was always his demise. If he could actually make a decision, he could have been very dangerous because he had all of the talent. Instead, he is the most sacked QB per dropback in NFL history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Syracuse Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Rob Johnson is looking at his Super Bowl championship ring and laughing while he goes to the bank to withdraw some of the millions he made. He's not angry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Interesting Rob Johnson tidbit. Further my previous post about his demise was how often he was sacked. Think about this - Jim Kelly had a 60.1% comp percentage, 1.35:1 TD/Int Ratio and averaged 7.4 yds per attempt Johnson had a 60.5% comp percentage, 1.59:1 TD/Int Ratio and averaged 7.2 yds per attempt Scary how talented Johnson was when he made a decision. The major difference (statistically - not discussing intangibles and other stuff), Kelly was sacked once every 15.8 dropbacks vs Johnson who was sacked once every 7 dropbacks. Johnson had the talent to be the real deal, but not the head for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Interesting Rob Johnson tidbit. Further my previous post about his demise was how often he was sacked. Think about this - Jim Kelly had a 60.1% comp percentage, 1.35:1 TD/Int Ratio and averaged 7.4 yds per attempt Johnson had a 60.5% comp percentage, 1.59:1 TD/Int Ratio and averaged 7.2 yds per attempt Scary how talented Johnson was when he made a decision. The major difference (statistically - not discussing intangibles and other stuff), Kelly was sacked once every 15.8 dropbacks vs Johnson who was sacked once every 7 dropbacks. Johnson had the talent to be the real deal, but not the head for it. Johnson's other problem, IMO, was he was insanely brittle and couldn't stay on the field. Taking a lot of sacks isn't great, but when the QB gets hit often and each hit could mean he then misses a handful of games, it's a career ender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 I find this thread title mis-leading and I think you should be fined an unspecified amount of something or other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Grid Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Not trying to be too big of an Edwards apologist, but do you think there might be a difference between the team Rob Johnson had around him and the team Edwards had around him? Johnson had a defense that was ranked near the top of the league (meaning the offense wasn't forced to play from behind, got the ball back quickly, and often benefited from great field position), an offensive line that still was pretty solid, (A LOT better than the current Bills line) and a better overall receiving corps. With all of this RJ did marginally better than Edwards statistically, and no better record wise, so I don't know that the comparisson is really fair or balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills in va Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 after the trent dilfer thread I had to start my own... how do you trent supporters explain the many plays where trent had lots of time, and still dumped it off? there were over 50 plays last year that no one got close to him. He did his usual...- look left- look right- find fred- dump it off. When TO called him out finally, was TO wrong? Does TO not know offense or the "inside" on whats really going on? Was Fitzpatricks better production due to a different line? Why did Trent always play bad once people took away the dump off? He played bad for 3 coordinators and 3 lines. Always the dump off or a 5 hard hitch. WOW! Exciting stuff. Quit wishing for him to be good, he never will be, never. Every game with him starting is a charity event. I cant believe how long it takes both bills fans and coaches alike, to see how bad a QB really is. Calling rob johnson..., how many starts did he get? I bet his stats are close to trents now. Can someone do a comparison for me? Im too busy hating trent. I agree 100%. I am sooo tired of the Trent Edwards' apologists. I couldn't believe that our 2 biggest needs: LT and QB were not addressed higher in the draft, we will pay for that this year, same as last. To be fair to Captain Checkdown: Does anybody remember the Redskins game a few years ago? I was there and watched Trent bring us back late in the fourth quarter, hitting Josh Reed for a 35 yard bomb on 3rd and long. That pass was beautiful and at the time reminded me of watching a Kelly pass (blasphemy I know). We ended up kicking 2 last second field goals and beating the Redskins. This was the game where Joe Gibbs called back-to-back time outs to ice the kicker giving us an extra 5 yards into a driving freezing rain storm. Since then Edwards has regressed so much it's like watching a different player. Even when he has time, and a WR has a step, he checks down to a back or tight end. I hope he resurrects his career this year, but I doubt it's gonna happen. But if by some miracle he gains some of his old form, with Chan calling plays, we might actually surprise alot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbillyfootballcoach Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 Not trying to be too big of an Edwards apologist, but do you think there might be a difference between the team Rob Johnson had around him and the team Edwards had around him? Johnson had a defense that was ranked near the top of the league (meaning the offense wasn't forced to play from behind, got the ball back quickly, and often benefited from great field position), an offensive line that still was pretty solid, (A LOT better than the current Bills line) and a better overall receiving corps. With all of this RJ did marginally better than Edwards statistically, and no better record wise, so I don't know that the comparisson is really fair or balanced. No I was really just comparing how they both sucked and it took too long for the FO to realise it. Rob was a worse QB in my opinion but not by much. He too couldnt read a defense but just waited for a sack, Trents one-up'd him, he waits for the dump off and hardly ever gets sacked, but no big plays either. Rob hit the deep ball quit a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbillyfootballcoach Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 I agree 100%. I am sooo tired of the Trent Edwards' apologists. I couldn't believe that our 2 biggest needs: LT and QB were not addressed higher in the draft, we will pay for that this year, same as last. To be fair to Captain Checkdown: Does anybody remember the Redskins game a few years ago? I was there and watched Trent bring us back late in the fourth quarter, hitting Josh Reed for a 35 yard bomb on 3rd and long. That pass was beautiful and at the time reminded me of watching a Kelly pass (blasphemy I know). We ended up kicking 2 last second field goals and beating the Redskins. This was the game where Joe Gibbs called back-to-back time outs to ice the kicker giving us an extra 5 yards into a driving freezing rain storm. Since then Edwards has regressed so much it's like watching a different player. Even when he has time, and a WR has a step, he checks down to a back or tight end. I hope he resurrects his career this year, but I doubt it's gonna happen. But if by some miracle he gains some of his old form, with Chan calling plays, we might actually surprise alot of people. watch that pass agian, it looks like he over throws royal and get lucky with reed making the catch instead, impossible to prove but seeing him overthrow the same type of route several times thereafter, ala to lee evan last year, and the cleveland game in 2008, I think he really just got lucky. Judge for yourself.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Good bad indifferent, the bottom line is none of the guys have proven they can get it done. The only difference between any of the guys on the roster is Fitz and TE have had more opportunities. That’s the beauty of the current QB competition. There is no heir apparent. Brown will be given the rookie benefit of the doubt and slide to back up status then between Brohm, Fitz and TE, the best QB will get on the field, the worst and perhaps worst two will be sent packing no matter who has the best “excuses”. That is the best part about a clean slate… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uticaclub Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Johnson's main problem was, he played in favor of Flutie. While Johnson might have been more athletic and bigger, Flutie and the intangibles and leadership that bought this team to it's last playoff appearance. The main reason Johnson sucks in because he's not Flutie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 I don't think that there are really that many "Edwards apologists" on the board. I think it is more a case that, many (at least I) have more hope that Edwards can transform into something closer to a decent NFL QB, than Ryan Fitzpatrick. I will give you, Ryan seems to have a huge edge over Edwards, in confidence, but I don't think I have ever seen an NFL QB make as many bad throws as Fitz. He makes some decent ones too...but his skills are very limited. There was a time, early on, that Edwards seemed on the fast track to being a good QB... IMO, his regression is a result of the coaching staff that he played for. They had no confidence in themselves, or their players, and it showed on the field. Remember, when Trent first started, he was lauded for his "poise"...he seemed to have intangibles that made him a better than average prospect. His poise became a joke around here, but there was something there, early on...the fact that his coaches ran a little league offense did little to help his confidence...we have all heard opposition players saying how easy it was to beat the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Rob Johnson is the worst QB in Bills history. This guy played on the same team that consistently won w/ Flutie (who most believe was a slightly above avg QB and nothing more) and lost at a staggering rate. This was with a shut down defense on the other side, no less. Sure he had a big arm, and had a few nice plays here and there, but that's what happens when you hold on the ball until a wide open receiver goes streaking down the field. You make some plays, you pad your stats, and you lose a lot of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 if rob johnson somehow got hot tub time machined to this team, he would be our starting QB and there wouldnt be a debate. scary thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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