Would you trade up for Clausen?

[Pirate Angel]

Back in 2004, we had the 13th pick and the Steelers had the 11th. However, the Jags were picking at #9 and took WR Reggie Williams. The Steelers took Big Ben and we took Lee Evans. We traded back in to the bottom of the first round to take JP. I thought then and still think that we could have traded up with the Jags and stole Ben from the Steelers. The Jags would only have dropped from 9 to 13 and there were a lot of WR's still on the board at the time including Reggie Williams, Lee Evans, Michael Clayton and Michael Jenkins. As it was, Lee Evans made it to 13 and with us at 9 taking a QB, Reggie Williams probably would have lasted to 13 too so the Jags would probably have gotten Williams anyway despite the trade down and if they didn't, the consolation would have been Lee Evans.

 

Now, I don't know about you but I would have had no problem at all with a trade up for Big Ben. We ended up trading up anyway and splurging on JP.

 

I think we may face the same situation this year. We have compelling needs elsewhere, especially at OT but we may very well have a chance to trade up if we want to try and nab Jimmy Clausen.

Would you do it?

 

I am going to guess that the collective wisdom is going to be "no way" given how often people pitch the idea of a trade down. I think that idea is always attractive to us wannabee GM's because it just seems to be such a clever trick. Normally I would probably agree but not here. I am sick and tired of standing pat when draft after draft, due to our medicore records, we are just a few picks away from franchise players. Not this time. I have no problem at all trading up to get Clausen and taking my chances in finding an OT later on or in FA. Yeah, I know, a great QB on his back can't do much but a crappy QB can't do much with a good line. Take Clausen and then start building around him. That's my plan.

Lets see what he does at the combine

[Mickey]

I am against trading up from the 9 under any circumstances........either there is a player there that can help us or we trade down......because there are going to be players LATER in the first round that can help us

 

It is my opinion that Baluga, Clausen, or Bradford are going to be there at 9

 

I don't know about that, seems like JP and McCargo were late first round picks.....

[Mickey]

Trade UP for Clausen HELL NO, trade down for more picks

 

 

Stockpile mediocrity? JP was a late first rounder and Trent was a third rounder. If Clausen is a franchise QB, a big if I'll grant you, I would trade up in a heart beat. You build a team with blue chippers and then fill in the rest.

[Mickey]

Trading up for Bradford, sure. I'm not even sure I'd select Clausen if he fell to 9. There is a deep quarry of QBs in this draft. We could draft in round 3 or 4 and find decent material that would not be a "project." More likely, Nix and Gailey will trade down to get more picks. We have a lot of holes to fill in our new defensive structure, as has been mentioned here on the board, and they are probably right to bring in as many new players to replace the old players who have done little to inspire confidence this last decade.

 

 

Sounds a lot like what we already with Trent Edwards. Trade downs rarely happen, especially when you are picking 9th.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I don't know about that, seems like JP and McCargo were late first round picks.....

Well now that you bring those names up, Mickey...yes they were late first round picks. However they were also players who the Bills traded back into the first round to select...so their mention arguably both strengthens and weakens your position on trading up in the first round.

 

In all actuality, past history means nothing now with a new football department installed at One Bills Drive.

As others have said, if the braintrust has a conviction about one of the quarterbacks (as the Jets did with Mark Sanchez last year) then it is legitimately debatable whether to trade up for that person.

 

Personally I'm against trading up for either quarterback and I'm not sure I like any of the tackles at #9 either so in principle, I'd be all for trading down a few slots and picking up more picks. Look at all the first rounders who were picked after the #9 spot last year that had immediate impact for their teams:

 

Michael Crabtree

Knowshon Moreno

Brian Orakpo

Malcolm Jenkins

Brian Cushing

Josh Freeman

Jeremy Maclin

Brandon Pettigrew

Alex Mack

Percy Harvin

Michael Oher

Vontae Davis

Clay Matthews

Donald Brown

Eric Wood

Hakeem Nicks

Kenny Britt

Chris Wells

 

The Bills were one of the few teams that didn't get any contribution from their top pick. I trust that won't happen this year.

 

But back to my point, if the Bills can trade down and get another excellent player, I'm all for it.

[bobobonators]

Well now that you bring those names up, Mickey...yes they were late first round picks. However they were also players who the Bills traded back into the first round to select...so their mention arguably both strengthens and weakens your position on trading up in the first round.

 

In all actuality, past history means nothing now with a new football department installed at One Bills Drive.

As others have said, if the braintrust has a conviction about one of the quarterbacks (as the Jets did with Mark Sanchez last year) then it is legitimately debatable whether to trade up for that person.

 

Personally I'm against trading up for either quarterback and I'm not sure I like any of the tackles at #9 either so in principle, I'd be all for trading down a few slots and picking up more picks. Look at all the first rounders who were picked after the #9 spot last year that had immediate impact for their teams:

 

Michael Crabtree

Knowshon Moreno

Brian Orakpo

Malcolm Jenkins

Brian Cushing

Josh Freeman

Jeremy Maclin

Brandon Pettigrew

Alex Mack

Percy Harvin

Michael Oher

Vontae Davis

Clay Matthews

Donald Brown

Eric Wood

Hakeem Nicks

Kenny Britt

Chris Wells

 

The Bills were one of the few teams that didn't get any contribution from their top pick. I trust that won't happen this year.

 

But back to my point, if the Bills can trade down and get another excellent player, I'm all for it.

 

[ganesh]

Revisionist history here...The Bills tried to trade up with Jags, but the Jags were bent on not missing out on Reggie Williams. They were worried that the Jets sandwiched between us and the Steelers would take Reggie.

 

I think enough of these trading of draft picks. The Bills have not done well in that area...Losman, McCargo, Bledsoe just hasn't worked for this team in this decade.

[thewildrabbit]

I agree with your premise--that it will likely take a rookie QB two to three years to develop. But to me, that's one more reason why it makes sense to get the quarterback sooner rather than later. (Assuming the right guy is there.) The goal is not to get good right away!! The Bills don't have the talent to be an immediate Super Bowl threat. The goal is to be as good as possible starting in two to three years, with as much young, good talent on board as possible. The Bills' window of doing something dangerous in the playoffs will open after those two to three years (if they're well-run between now and then). The only thing that matters between now and then is getting the players we'll need in two to three years' time.

By the same token it might take 2-3 years to build an O line with enough "continuity" to understand protections schemes and ACTUALLY PROTECT the QB.

Any rookie QB drafted in the first round and the fans and media will force the team to start him, and perhaps ruin him if the line isn't ready. Wouldn't it be wiser and more prudent to draft an LT at this point, haven't we fans seen enough QB regression?

[buffaloaggie]

Absolutely not. Claussen has peaked.

 

I'll take my chances on some guy in the mid-to later rounds, with Brohm starting this year and if things don't workout, then target a real NFL prospect like Mallet in the next draft. I cannot see Buddy Nix taking a Domer in the first round, I don't think he'd allow it much less trade up for him.

Clausen has peaked under Weis' mentoring. I'd love to say Clausen is the answer, but the more I think about it, the more I think of Brady Quinn's performance so far with the Browns and draw parallels from how he's doing.

[Orton's Arm]

By the same token it might take 2-3 years to build an O line with enough "continuity" to understand protections schemes and ACTUALLY PROTECT the QB.

Any rookie QB drafted in the first round and the fans and media will force the team to start him, and perhaps ruin him if the line isn't ready. Wouldn't it be wiser and more prudent to draft an LT at this point, haven't we fans seen enough QB regression?

I'd say that it would be wiser and more prudent to not let the team be run by the fans and the media! Rookie quarterbacks belong on the bench, period. That goes double if the line is a mess.

[KD in CA]

Any rookie QB drafted in the first round and the fans and media will force the team to start him, and perhaps ruin him if the line isn't ready.

 

That's only true if you have a weak-willed front office and coaching staff (and fan base). If you have a confident, intelligent group running the show, they aren't going to deviate from the plan because of impatient fans or sports reporters.

 

That's not to say I think they should take QB over OT because I don't. I think they can get a QB next year since the Bills are at least two years away from having the potential to be a serious competetor in the AFC.

[dave mcbride]

For those who say Clausen "sucks," take a look at his actual production. That sort of snarky sound bite "analysis" makes you sound foolish.

 

As for Mickey's point, I stand by my avatar. It's a QB-driven league, and if the Bills think that Clausen is a legit top ten pick, they'd be fools not to take him. A serviceable OT can be had in the second round; a serviceable QB in the second round probably can't be.

[RuntheDamnBall]

Trading and surrendering picks is almost never a good idea unless you are 100% sold that the guy is a once-in-a-generation star. Teams have ended up "on the winning end" of a trade in which they surrendered picks, of course. But really, it's like giving up lottery tickets that each have a 50/50 chance of winning you some money.

 

I don't think Clausen has helped lead his team to enough victories and I am a bit concerned that he's shown as much as he can in a pro system with Weis coaching. The defenses he'll face in the NFL are going to be a lot better than those that left Golden Tate wide open. They'll be just as good at blanketing Evans and co as they have been in past years, and they're going to challenge Clausen to make the throws and not make mistakes -- and not get killed if he's in Buffalo playing behind a rebuilding line. I'd trade up for Roethlisberger, or Peyton, or any guy who is really a can't-miss talent. There are simply too many questions on Clausen to give up more picks that could be used on Front 7 or OL.

[Wilson from Gamehendge]

The bills tried but the Jags asked for the world. The Lions got a second round pick for moving back one spot (6-7), so the Jaguars figured they were due a lot of picks. It would have made a lot of sense for them to move down, even if they only received a 2nd or a 3rd. Williams would have been available at 13. It would have saved the bills. To bad GMs think are so stubborn.

LOL

 

Nothing could have saved the Bills. Great teams have great coaching staffs, the Bills have not...and I will wait to say if they do yet or not. I doubt they do, but I AM optimistic. I have faith in Buddy Nix. Russ Brandon? Not so much.

 

Ben Roethlisberger would have gotten ruined here. In a way kind of like Drew Bledsoe did.

 

And, I doubt Mike Mularkey would have used Roethlisberger properly. Mularkey was not a great Head Coach.

[RuntheDamnBall]

For those who say Clausen "sucks," take a look at his actual production. That sort of snarky sound bite "analysis" makes you sound foolish.

 

As for Mickey's point, I stand by my avatar. It's a QB-driven league, and if the Bills think that Clausen is a legit top ten pick, they'd be fools not to take him. A serviceable OT can be had in the second round; a serviceable QB in the second round probably can't be.

Don't you think that a serviceable QB can be found via FA, and that the Bills could groom a guy like Pike or LeFevour?

[manbeast]

Back in 2004, we had the 13th pick and the Steelers had the 11th. However, the Jags were picking at #9 and took WR Reggie Williams. The Steelers took Big Ben and we took Lee Evans. We traded back in to the bottom of the first round to take JP. I thought then and still think that we could have traded up with the Jags and stole Ben from the Steelers. The Jags would only have dropped from 9 to 13 and there were a lot of WR's still on the board at the time including Reggie Williams, Lee Evans, Michael Clayton and Michael Jenkins. As it was, Lee Evans made it to 13 and with us at 9 taking a QB, Reggie Williams probably would have lasted to 13 too so the Jags would probably have gotten Williams anyway despite the trade down and if they didn't, the consolation would have been Lee Evans.

 

Now, I don't know about you but I would have had no problem at all with a trade up for Big Ben. We ended up trading up anyway and splurging on JP.

 

I think we may face the same situation this year. We have compelling needs elsewhere, especially at OT but we may very well have a chance to trade up if we want to try and nab Jimmy Clausen.

Would you do it?

 

I am going to guess that the collective wisdom is going to be "no way" given how often people pitch the idea of a trade down. I think that idea is always attractive to us wannabee GM's because it just seems to be such a clever trick. Normally I would probably agree but not here. I am sick and tired of standing pat when draft after draft, due to our medicore records, we are just a few picks away from franchise players. Not this time. I have no problem at all trading up to get Clausen and taking my chances in finding an OT later on or in FA. Yeah, I know, a great QB on his back can't do much but a crappy QB can't do much with a good line. Take Clausen and then start building around him. That's my plan.

And we would be cryin about how bad he was and wishing we took JP who was drafted by another team.

[manbeast]

LOL

 

Nothing could have saved the Bills. Great teams have great coaching staffs, the Bills have not...and I will wait to say if they do yet or not. I doubt they do, but I AM optimistic. I have faith in Buddy Nix. Russ Brandon? Not so much.

 

Ben Roethlisberger would have gotten ruined here. In a way kind of like Drew Bledsoe did.

 

And, I doubt Mike Mularkey would have used Roethlisberger properly. Mularkey was not a great Head Coach.

JP had good #'s with Mularkey I didn't want to see Mularky leave. I think if he was here our keyboards would not get ruined by all the tears.

[Mickey]

And we would be cryin about how bad he was and wishing we took JP who was drafted by another team.

 

 

Probably , are we cursed?

[Pete]

no way in hell! This team has holes every where I look. To suggest trading up and giving up multiple draft picks for a marginal QB makes zero sense to me. There are so many questions about Clausen. He is far from can't miss. There are many players who have much better odds of being great NFL players in this draft IMO

[Bring Back Kelly]

Stockpile mediocrity? JP was a late first rounder and Trent was a third rounder. If Clausen is a franchise QB, a big if I'll grant you, I would trade up in a heart beat. You build a team with blue chippers and then fill in the rest.

There is a lot of talent at the bottom of the first round. Last year was Beanie Wells & Hakim Nicks. The year before that was the best RB in TheNFL Chris Johnson at 24. Before that notables are: Dwayne Bowe, Anthony Gonzalas, Deangelo Williams, Addai, Nick Mangold, Logan Mankins. I dont think they are mediocre

[PromoTheRobot]

I would do it in a heartbeat...if Claussen was actually going to be a decent NFL QB, instead of the latest in a long line of ND Irish hypes and flops.

 

PTR

[yungmack]

Jeez, guys, don't you realize that Clausen is from SoCal? He can't possibly play in Buffalo. I know this because many "experts" on TSW (and Jim Kelly too) have told me so. If only Clausen had played in a windy, cold weather place instead of sunny South Bend....

[Pete]

I would trade up for Suh or McCoy- but no way for a QB

[Ghost of Rob Johnson]

No, but I'd trade up for Bradford.

[KOKBILLS]

Clausen<<<<<<<<<<<Big Ben

 

No way I trade up for Jimmy Clausen...Maybe I'm wrong about Him...But no freaking way...

[KD in CA]

Clausen<<<<<<<<<<<Big Ben

 

No way I trade up for Jimmy Clausen...Maybe I'm wrong about Him...But no freaking way...

 

 

Probably, but that doesn't change the fact that trading up for anyone is a bad idea for a team that has numerous glaring needs.

[KOKBILLS]

Ben Roethlisberger would have gotten ruined here. In a way kind of like Drew Bledsoe did.

 

 

Seriously? I'm not saying he would have had the success he's had in Pitt...But seriously? Did you really compare Bledsoe to Big Ben? Have you seen Big Ben perform miracles behind a suspect O-Line when the Running Game is not working at all? Big Ben would be successful anywhere, even in Oakland...Maybe not Super Bowl Champ successful...But successful nonetheless...