KOKBILLS

He should be...IMHO he'll be a better pro... I think Clowney is an amazing athlete with an unlimited upside...But while the Draftniks and armchair GM's fawn over all that stuff, it's my belief the real scouts and GM's are ultra-concerned with his red-flags...I think the whole "generational talent" thing with Clowney is a bit overblown...When is the last time anyone has needed to make excuses for "generational talent?" With Clowney...There are a lot of excuses for his hot and cold play...When I watch his tape, and I've seen a ton of it, I see a player with amazing physical skills who, for whatever reason, is not making enough plays even though he bursts though the backfield time and time again...I see a player who does not like to engage blockers at the line of scrimmage enough and instead relies on his incredible quickness to get by...That would seem to be a good thing, but all too often it gets him a "just missed." I don't see him as an instinctive player like Khalil Mack...I'm not going to rip on his effort because he does chase, pursue, and generally shows hustle...But he's not making nearly enough plays where he should...In the backfield...And every time I watch him it frustrates me...Why is this guy not dominating more often? I just don't buy into the excuses...Teams always run away from great Defensive players...Teams always game plan for great Defensive players...But great Defensive players disrupt the best laid plans...And I just don't see Clowney doing that as much as I would like to... Mario Williams is one heck of a good NFL player...But there are many who are still criticizing his career because he was the #1 overall pick...I think there is some worry about Clowney and whether of not he can live up to the massive hype...I don't think whatsoever he is the slam dunk we all here about...I have no doubt Clowney can live up to all the hype because he is a freak athletically...I'm just REAL uncertain if he's ever going to be able to put it all together...The NFL is a massive step up, even from the SEC...Clowney is going to have to improve his game, and his smarts big time...I'm not of the mind that it's an absolute certainty he will do so... I think in comparison Robinson is a slam dunk player who is the best OT prospect I've seen coming out since Orlando Pace...If that seems outrageous, then I think conservatively Robinson is the best OT prospect since Joe Thomas at the very least...He's massive, powerful, and he's barely scraped the surface of what he can be...And I'm not saying whatsoever that Clowney is a bad prospect or anything like that...I'm just not convinced at all that he's this guaranteed "generational player..." I would take Robinson over Clowney every day and twice on Sunday...That being said I've been wrong plenty before... And I'm ultra-interested to see how the two careers match up 5 years from now...

I have a serious liking for Jordan Matthews...For the life of me I can't understand why he's not getting more attention...He's 6-3 and ran a 4.46 at Indy...His College performance speaks for itself...At Vanderbilt nonetheless...Today I heard Joe B. basically say he was thinking if the Bills do not go WR in the 1st they may not go WR at all because they were looking for a difference maker...And I'm thinking...What about Matthews? I think he compares very favorably to Demaryius Thomas...Though Thomas is a little thicker...He's Jerry Rice's freaking cousin for God's sake... Here a nice write up of Matthews by Greg Gabriel who compares him to Reggie Wayne... http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=39 Interesting...I did not know that...And I think it adds a little more legitimacy to the Reggie Wayne comparisons...

You seriously have got to be kidding with that comparison... And please don't tell me you've watched both a lot and come away with that feeling because it's literally impossible...I have watched them both a TON...And Hill can't hold Evans jock...On hands alone Evans is leaps and bounds better than Hill...If you want a comparison for Evans it's Alshon Jeffery or Brandon Marshall...

The historical dropoff...especially with the Bills...from the 2nd to the 3rd round is substantial...I'm not going to argue much about giving up a 3rd round pick...But I'll fight to the death over #41...

Well...I think the record amount of Jr entries is the easy way to assume the talking heads are probably right about this year...It's not something you can predict...There are a crazy amount of Jr's in this Draft...It's really insane... I have a LOT of faith in Whaley...But I'm such a skeptic when it comes to this team the disappointments of the past clearly come rushing to the forefront when I see something like this rumored... Yesterday Whaley very clearly said the key to the time leading up to the Draft is to NOT show your hand...So I'm guessing if that is true these rumors are just a bunch of bull...And I'm worrying about nothing...

We'll just agree to disagree on this...Some of you are looking at this with some serious rose-colored glasses...But I accept that this could work out in a perfect world...This Draft could turn out to be less deep than projected and Watkins could become the next great thing...No question it's possible...If the Bills do it, all I can say is Watkins better become Julio Jones...And if that's the case I'll be more than happy to call him a Buffalo Bill... Five picks in the deepest Draft in recent memory is what it will take...While the best teams in the league are stockpiling picks in lesser Drafts, the Bills would be trading away picks in the the deepest Draft...Sound like a formula for winning? We'll see...All I know for certain is this...San Fran...36 picks in the past 4 years, and the most picks this year...Seattle...39 picks in the past 4 years...The Bills past four 2nd Round picks...Aaron Williams, Cordy Glenn, Robert Woods, Kiko Alonso...All those key players in the same round were talking about giving a pick away... So anyway...What I'm basically saying is this...If I was Whaley #41 in this Draft would be off-limits for a Trade up scenario...As would my 1st next year...If he can make something happen outside of that to move up and get Watkins or Evans...OK...Fine...But there is no way on Gods green earth I would give up #41 this year...It just does not fit with my personal philosophy...The same way Drafting Spiller did not, Drafting Whitner did not, Drafting Maybin did not...etc...All I know personally is every time I get these terrible feelings about something the Bills do in the Draft my gut usually ends up being right...Now admittedly I'm not always right when I get a great feeling about it...But that's another story...

Well Kirby...That is definitely no where near what I think we're talking about...IMHO that is a terrible example based on the talent in this Draft...I'm talking about a player like Ebron (at #9) who has drawn Vernon Davis comparisons by some, and a player like Jordan Matthews (at #41) who has drawn Reggie Wayne comparisons by others...You can't have it both ways and assume Watkins is going to hit his ceiling while #9 and #41 just reach above their floor...So...Would you rather have Julio Jones, or an in-his-prime Reggie Wayne AND Vernon Davis? I'm not saying any of these players will reach these comparisons...I'm just saying I think what they can get in THIS Draft at #9 and #41 is going to absolutely blow away the combined value of Smith and Justice...

I can pretty much live with most move-up scenarios as long as they don't involve giving up #41 this year...Just too much talent in this Draft to give up #41 IMHO...3rd round picks don't usually have nearly the impact a 2nd round pick does historically...Not to mention a high 2nd like the Bills hold...And trading down in the 2nd this year is not all that bad...The Bills could still get a very good player later in the 2nd...

Astro...You've GOT to re-evaluate Phillip Gaines...He'll be long, long, long gone by the time the 7th round comes...

I totally agree with you on the Seattle front...But what they did to insure none of those moves had a crippling effect was to stockpile Draft picks...39 picks over the past 4 years makes gambling a heck of a lot safer than trading away #41 overall coming off a 6-10 season and only coming out of the deepest Draft in recent memory with a total of 5 picks... I just don't think the fact that the two best teams in football (Seattle and San Fran) combined for a total of 75 Draft picks in the past 4 years can be ignored...I think its proof positive that great teams still build through the Draft by stockpiling...I think it's exactly what the Bills should do...At the very least until they actually make the Playoffs instead of talking about how close they are to doing so...

So...Let me see if I understand this... It's not as big a deal giving up #41 overall...which...in a deep Draft should carry the value of what you can normally get from a mid-late 1st Round pick?...Not to mention the fact that the 2nd Round has netted the Bills talent like Cordy Glenn, Aaron Williams, Kiko Alonso, and Robert Woods in only the past three Drafts...But it's OK giving up that pick because of the depth of a UDFA class?...A UDFA class which, regardless of Draft depth, has a near-zero-percent chance of producing a multi-year starter historically...The UDFA's make giving up a 2nd round pick OK? I just don't get that logic... Sure there's always the Nikell Robey's that come along and contribute...But even guys like that who end up being nickle and dime DB's are hard to find among the average UDFA class...It's a statistical rarity...I read a study that said only 28 UDFA's became starters in their Rookie years from 2001-2010 out of a total of at least 5000 UDFA's signed in that span...That's something like a .0056 chance...All in all UDFA's have an extremely high fail rate after 3 years...It's not a place to be looking to replace the talent you lost from giving up a premium Draft pick...It is however a way for a team to explain a risky move like this to anyone who really don't know any better... The only way giving up #41 overall is understandable for a 6-10 football team is if the player you trade up for does not only project to be, but becomes an perennial All-Pro caliber player...And we wont know that for a few years minimum...But I don't really need to tell anyone what the probability of that happening is...Do I?...

Fair enough...But I would be seriously surprised if that was the case...Especially in this Draft...Which is why I would still be shocked if the Bills gave up #41...It just does not seem to be the type of move Whaley would risk...I think, in general, scouts want more picks...Owners and Execs are more apt to get enamoured with a single guy...And that guy is more often a QB anyway...But we'll see...I like Watkins a lot...I simply have a fundamental belief that #9 and #41 combined will be better than any single player in this Draft...But I can also see how it would work out IF in fact Watkins becomes an All Pro...

I think there is a decent chance Watkins will be that special...But I still would not give up #41 for him...I'll take #9 and #41 in this Draft (especially for a team coming off yet another losing year) any day over Watkins, or anyone else in this Draft not named Greg Robinson...And even for Robinson it would be really, really hard for me to accept...

I respect Ourlads...But there are others I respect that disagree with that assessment... I'm not saying I love Ebron at #9...But I don't hate it either...The only thing I've heard just about every scout agree on as far as Ebron's negatives are concerned is the fact that he did have his fair share of drops...Other than that I've heard more than one scout say that Ebron is a willing blocker and will get better in that area if he is asked to do it more often...He's not Jace Amaro in the blocking area...He's willing...And in the games I saw live this year (3 games) the kid really looked good...The other thing about Ebron I like is the fact that no one wants to be great more than he does...He's borderline cocky...But very confident... Here's a report from an ex NFL Director Of Scouting with 29 years of NFL Scouting experience... http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=15

That's a smart argument...Here's another...Good teams stockpile picks and rarely trade them away unless they already have a decent pile of picks saved up...Seattle and San Fran are the two best teams in the NFL...Over the past 4 Drafts the Seahawks have had 39 picks...The 49ers have had 36...

So...You're assuming that Watkins is going to be a top 100 NFL player? Even so, I'm guessing the Bills last four 2nd round picks A. Williams, Glenn, Robert Woods, and Kiko were not on that list...But they are all very good pivotal young players the Bills have recently Drafted in the 2nd round...That's what you are likely giving up with that 2nd round pick...You're giving up on getting that kind of talent for a team that finished 6-10 last year... And I like Sammie Watkins as much as the next guy...But assuming he's going to be a "generational talent" is a bit much for me...I think he's going to be good...I certainly think he could become a Julio Jones-type in time...But we'll see...He's not Megatron...So I'm not OK whatsoever with giving up #41...It's too much...

Agreed... And I'm not in the position Brandon, Whaley, and Marrone are in...So it's easy for me... But in all seriousness...If I was Whaley...I would first and foremost be hoping Evans slides to #9...If it cost me no more than a 3rd I would consider moving up to Atlanta's spot...The chances of a 3rd round pick ever becoming a regular starter is only around 30% I think...So I'm not opposed to trading a 3rd for a player like Evans... If not, I would much rather trade down a bit, hopefully grabbing an extra 2nd round pick, and bet on my scouting department going 3-3 in order to finally vault this team into Playoff contention...I would envision a trade down to the mid teens ending up with something like Martin/Ebron/maybe even Kouandjio in the 1st, and two from Amaro/Jordan Matthews/Seferian-Jenkins/Latimer/Chrichton/Hyde etc. in the 2nd...That would be my plan...I think it's safer, and smarter in the long run...And if you hit on all three picks it's a massive boost...

I like Sal...I really do... But to say a 6-10 team needs to move up and likely give up a pick (#41) in a Draft that is the deepest one we've seen in recent memory?...That #41 is in an area of the Draft that has netted them Cordy Glenn, Aaron Williams, Kiko Alonso, and Robert Woods over the past three years...You're going to give that up just to make a statement?...Well...That's ridiculous...IMHO it's not good team building...The Bills should trust their scouting department...Get more picks, not less... Sal should be smarter than that...The Bills don't need to make any statement other than to win more games...You do that by getting better all over the roster...Look at Seattle and San Fran...They stockpile talent everywhere...The Niners have had 36 picks in the past 4 Drafts...The Seahawks in the same span 39!!! They usually have more picks not less...Then Seattle gave up picks for one player when they truly felt (and showed on the field) they were only one player away...It turns out they were so loaded they really did not even need that player to win a Championship... Because they had already stockpiled...Please don't trade #41 Doug...It's a bad move for a 6-10 team...

Agreed... The Bills have bounced back from some poor Draft years to land Aaron Williams, Cordy Glenn, Kiko Alonso, and Robert Woods in the 2nd Round over the past three years combined...That's pretty darn good...And why I'm so opposed to giving up #41 in the deepest talent Draft in recent memory...No matter how this thing shakes out there is going to be serious talent available at #41 this year...The deeper the Draft the better the chance that a player like Cordy Glenn slides down a bit...And at the WR position I promise everyone here...there may not be an equal to Sammie Watkins at #41...but there will be a very good prospect available if the Bills choose to go WR...My personal preference is Jordan Matthews who Greg Gabriel compares very favorably to Reggie Wayne...I just can't see how coming out of the 1st two rounds with say...Ebron and Matthews...or...Lewan and Matthews...is not quite a bit better than Sammie Watkins alone... Finally consider this...If Sammie Watkins compares to Julio Jones, Eric Ebron compares to Vernon Davis, and Jordan Matthews compares to Reggie Wayne...What would you rather have? Julio Jones alone, or the combination of Davis and Wayne? Or...Look at it this way...Would you trade Vernon Davis, a 2nd Round pick that projects to be a Reggie Wayne-type, and Stevie Johnson, for Julio Jones? I mean...I love Julio Jones...I love Sammie Watkins for that matter...But no way do I do that deal...

As much as I despise giving up #41..I would tend to agree with this take 100%...

I guarantee I will lose it if the Bills trade away #41 to move up... That is all...

Yes I would absolutely feel differently about a 3rd in comparison to a 2nd...I think that tips the trade in our favor because you would basically be getting the value of #52 overall for Stevie... And you should jump with me!!! It would be fun!!!

There's always an example from both sides (though I should add the Jets already had two 2nd round picks that year...So giving up one to get up for Revis was much easier to do)...I accept that...It's a philosophy thing with me...I don't think it's smart team building...I did not think Drafting Spiller was good team building philosophy...We won't know for a while now if in fact this does happen...But I'm more than comfortable going on record saying I'm against it...I'll take what I can get at #9 and #41 over anybody they can get at #4 and feel pretty comfortable that I did the right thing...But I admit that's just my way of looking at it...In fact, if they do it, I'll hope like hell they are right about this one... I would literally jump off the nearest bridge... Thing is the nearest bridge to me is not a far fall and I would likely only end up with a minor sprain...

I would agree with #2 if it was a QB or a player like Megatron...The only player in the top 5 this year that I think will have that kind of impact is Greg Robinson...And so far I have not heard that he is the target...And even for Robinson, who I think is the best prospect in this Draft, believing he has Orlando Pace-type potential, I still would not give up #41 to get him...So...In a nutshell...If Whaley believes that about Watkins he's definitely not going to get my approval...Though admittedly he could, and should care less...

True...But why is that even necessary? Maybe those guys are elite...We'll see...But there are very solid players behind them that will contribute to any NFL roster...#9 and #41 is too much to give up for any of these "elite" guys...I don't care who it is...This is a 6-10 team that has several needs no matter what the GM says...No one prospect is going to propel us into the playoffs...Unless EJ Manuel can still be considered a prospect...The team still needs depth and talent...I don't see why they would get enamored in the difference between supposed elite players and non-elite players in a Draft that everyone agrees is the deepest in recent memory...