folz

I'm not saying Tuel will be good or that he won't make rookie mistakes, but I was pretty impressed with him in preseason. Yes, of course that was against lesser talent, but he showed some poise as a QB. I don't think he'll be as bad as in his first playing time. I mean, to be thrown into your first regular season game as an UDFA, in the third quarter, against a good defense, without having taken the starters snaps for the week. That's a tough situation for a young guy with no experience. I'll hold off on any judgements until I see him play again. If the defense can shut down KC pretty well and Tuel manages the game, it could still happen. If we fall behind, and Tuel has to comeback, well I wouldn't be so confident in that.

My bad...you're right, the hitting a QB below the knees rule was created after Carson Palmer's injury. And then the rule was clarified after Brady's injury to not allow a player on the ground, who wasn't blocked, to lunge at the QB below the knees (what some in the media were calling the Brady rule). http://www.boston.co...nees/?page=full I was wrong. But that doesn't discount everything else I said. And at the time the original rule was instated, a lot of people we're calling it the Palmer Rule and saying it was because he was a "star" QB...so it's kind of the same thing anyhow. http://answers.yahoo...15154143AAInZ81 Obviously our perceptions differ on this issue, I feel there is some bias and you do not. That is fine, but if you stopped listening to everyone who ever made a mistake, you'd soon find yourself in a very quiet world.

That article bases the entire argument on one stat only, actual number of flags thrown for roughing the passer. So much more goes into it, such as calling or not calling holding calls on the offensive line. If say Brady's and Peyton's lines are allowed to hold more, give illegal shots to the face and helmet, and generally get away with more, then fewer defenders are going to be getting to the QB on a consistent basis, therefore the lower the oportunities to get a roughing the passer call. So, that stat does not even come close to telling the full story of the gripes about protecting star QBs (particularly Brady). As the Jets player said, you can't ignore that the NFL did instate the below the knee rule right after Brady is out for a season due to a knee injury. And yet when Wilfork nailed JP in the knee on purpose, he doesn't even get a flag. I stopped watching the NBA about 10 years ago because of the star treatment and unbalanced calls. And I hate seeing the NFL go in that direction, but it does look that way despite the apologists. I think for the most part the officiating in the NFL is pretty good, even in most Bills games. But one or two calls a game can make a huge difference in a game or season. Say a star team is down in the 4th quarter, they have a 3rd down that if they don't convert they may lose. A lineman gets away with a blatant hold that the announcers don't even comment on and the QB completes an 11 yard pass to continue the drive. They may not score and still lose the game, but they're given that one extra opportunity. Even one missed or bogus call a game or every other game over the course of a season may allow a team to pull out a few extra wins. You can see that type of thing every Sunday, especially for the star QBs and star teams. It's not blatant, but its pervasive. No doubt those guys (Brady/Manning types) win because they're damn good and future HOFs but they and they're teams definitely get the benefit of the doubt more often than other teams/players. And they do get more protection than non-household name QBs.

Players who should be cut/benched/traded: EJ, Chandler, A. Williams, Spiller, Freddy, Marcel, Kiko, Leonhard...they all suck... Oh wait, we won the game and these guys all contributed? Never mind.

Unlike Bills defenses of the past few years, most good teams stop a lot of runs. A lot of 1-3 yard gains and a few for a loss. For most of the game the Bills were doing this today (despite Carolina not running a lot). One reason for it is coaching...players held their lanes and filled their holes. They were where they were supposed to be. But at one point in the game I realized that Kyle and Marcel were totally clogging up the middle. The two of them were outstanding against the run today and they both were able to get some pressure on the QB as well. Dareus might not show up big in the stat sheet for this one, but I thought he played a really solid game.

A first year head coach who is trying to change a culture of losing does not have the luxury to keep a guy who isn't working hard based solely on potential. First off it's a bad message to send the rest of the team and secondly, you can't afford the roster spot. And most of the really talented guys who had attitude or other problems but still made it in the NFL, were actually hard workers...look at T.O. Always working hard to be the best despite his other issues. I don't think anyone stays in the NFL long if they aren't working and playing hard consistently.

I don't think I've heard anyone give a shout out for DT Jay Ross. Granted it was later in the game, against 2nd or 3d stringers, but he blocked 3 passes and was generally very disruptive on the line.

Honestly, you people do not know what you're talking about. You were either too young to watch Marv as a coach or you're so disgusted with Bills football of the last 12 years that you're just ragging on everyone. I think too many people discount how good of a coach he was because of his lackluster outing as a GM. Marv was a great coach!!!! Do you really think it is just a fluke that he is in the HOF and still considered one of the 20 best of all time? Oh right, it's just because he got lucky to have great players... What about Shula having Unitas, Griese, and Marino Or Jimmy Johnson having Aikman, E. Smith, and Johnson...just for a start Any team that makes a Super Bowl has great/all pro/HOF players. If you say that for Marv, you have to say that about every other Super Bowl coach Walsh...Montana, Rice, etc Knoll...Bradshaw, Greene, Stallworth, Franco, Swan, etc. That is just such a bad argument. That Bills team was full of egos...Marv united them, made them a family. It was war, us against them, being accountable to the other men in the trenches with you. He inspired that team. Do you really think without Marv's leadership they would have gone to the Bowl 4 times? No, that team would have been at each other's throats (remember the bickering Bills) and imploded. They persevered because of what Marv instilled in them. They didn't achieve in spite of him, they achieved because of him. He may not have been the architect of the K-gun/no-huddle, but he definitely had a hand in it (if you remember how it came about---after the Cincinatti game) and he had the final say on using it, how they would use it, allowing his QB to call the plays, etc. and ended up overseeing one of the most prolific offenses ever. And it was due to Marv that Special Teams became important again league-wide and made a name for Steve Tasker and Mark Pike. What? Marv was only a .500 coach in the NFL before coming to Buffalo?...Well, Bill Belichick was under .500 in 5 years at Cleveland and 1 year in New England before Brady took over. Marv also coached in the Canadian League. In 5 years up in Canada, he was in the Grey Cup (their Super Bowl) 3 out of 5 years, winning 2. And although, his time with the Chiefs wasn't completely successful, he had inherited a horrendous 2-12 team and each year they improved to 4, 7, 8 wins, then 9-7 in 1981 (before a strike shortened season). The reason we failed in the Super Bowls was because the league was changing at that time to bigger, beefier offensive lines and our small 3-man front couldn't stop the run consistently enough against those new O-lines (Washington and Dallas). And sure the Giants (Parcells and Belichick) had a good game plan in SB XXV to use a time sucking ground attack to keep the Bills offense off the field, but it's not like he was severely out coached, we lost the game by 1 point for Christ's sake and if Norwood's FG goes through we would have won. And don't forget, in week 15 of that same year, we had beaten that same Giants team in the Meadowlands 17-13. Those teams were so evenly matched and those were two hard fought, close games. Marv is the only coach to go to 4 consecutive Super Bowls (do you know how hard that is even though they lost them)? He was also the coach of the greatest NFL comeback of all time. In an 8 year stretch, his Bills won the AFC East 6 times. He was Skyline Conference Coach of the year both years he coached at the University of New Mexico. He also won Southern Conference Coach of the Year awards 2 out of 5 years he was at William & Mary. Won the Annis Stukus Trophy (Coach of the year in the Canadian League) in 1974. Was NFL Coach of the Year in 1988 and AFC Coach of the Year in 1988, 1993, and 1995. One of only 2 coaches (Tom Flores was the other) to have a winning record (17-6) against the winningest coach in the history of the NFL (Shula). One of only 14 coaches to win at least 100 games with one team. One of only 2 coaches (Bud Grant, the other) to appear in both Grey Cup Championship and the Super Bowl. Over a 10 year span (1988-1997), an entire decade, the Bills won more games than any team in the AFC and 2nd only to San Francisco in the entire NFL (I'm sure coaching had nothing to do with that...right?) I just don't understand this revisionist history. Give the man his due and have some respect for not only one of the best Bills coaches ever, but one of the best of all-time. "Where would you rather be than right here, right now" "When it's too tough for them, it's just right for us." Come on Man!

What's in a name? Goodwin vs. Los(s) man, I think we're finally heading in a good direction (at least name-wise) E(J)manuel is translated as "God is with us" in Hebrew Marcus "can" Easley get things done Tashard "is" Choice Marcell Dareus the great (Darius the Great was a king of the Persian empire) Arthur "cross the" Moats to storm the castle Eric "laying the" Wood Robert "fightin' his way through the" Woods Dustin "that kid's got a lot of" Hop kins Freddy "Action" Jackson, of course Jarius "free as a" Byrd (or in regards to his contract, maybe "A Byrd in the hand is worth two in the bush") "Gimme" Da'Rock Rogers Not sure what to say about the team having 4 Smiths' and 5 Williams' or 2 T.J.s, a C.J., and an E.J....but anyhow Great vids, thanks for posting

I'm with the OP...it is exciting that EJ is so happy to be here. Fitz wasn't all that happy when he first came to Blo, and if you asked Edwards or Losman before the draft which team did they hope to get picked by I guarantee you the Bills didn't even cross their mind. Yes, all 3 were happy to be a Bill when it meant getting a starting job and Fitz and JP definitely embraced the City once here, but this kid hoped that the Bills would draft him. What? Before the draft, I was leaning towards trading down and then nabbing Barkley the in 1st or 2nd...but I couldn't be happier with the EJ pick...everything about it feels right. I may be wrong (I have been many times before) and maybe it doesn't work out, but when he was on the stage at the draft after embracing Goddell, I blurted out...this kid is a star. Just my gut reaction. And he's excited about coming to Buffalo. Screw the he could've been had in the 4th round crowd...as Buddy himself has stated, we missed on some QBs in the past for waiting too long. We don't know where he would have gone if the Bills didn't take him, I'm just glad they got the guy they wanted. Remember Buddy was really high on Cam Newton and Colin Kaepernik and EJ is in that same mold. Interesting tidbit...I tried to catch all of the Gruden QB camps on ESPN but only ever saw an edited down version of the EJ interview that focused on Gruden talking about how bad EJ's ball security and sleeves were. The other day I finally watched the full segment on Youtube, its crappy quality because its some guy taping his TV, but Gruden gushed all the way through it. EJ looked real comfortable dissecting plays on the board, and at one point as they're watching tape and talking about the draft, Gruden says to EJ (looking at EJ on film), "Why aren't you the first pick in the draft". It wasn't a what's wrong with your game that makes teams shy away from you type of question, it was rhetorical, like he was saying I can't figure out why this kid isn't gonna be the first QB off the board. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkRIqTUzCwk Anyhow, I'm on the EJ bandwagon as far as it rolls.

Got a C from Sporting News fwiw...obviously he's not sold on Manuel and thinks Woods is just a possession receiver. We shall see. Grade: C Buffalo Bills: The Bills were all about going back to the drawing board with their passing game. The centerpiece is Florida State quarterback EJ Manuel, but coach Doug Marrone and his staff have their work cut out to turn him into a polished, athletic passer. They also will try to get Manuel on the same page with the receivers they took for him, USC possession-type Robert Woods and Texas speedster Marquise Goodwin. Their best pick for the present was on defense, Oregon inside linebacker Kiko Alonso. Offensively, there's a lot of potential but more shaky unknown. http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2013-04-27/nfl-draft-2013-grades-team-by-team-analysis-report-card-steelers-eagles

Did everyone catch how Buddy started his talk about Bradham at the press conference? I could be wrong but it sounds like he says, "Yeah, I love this ol' Boy" Classic Buddy!

It makes me laugh whenever anyone on a message board calls a player a scrub, etc. First of all, every guy in the NFL is a hell of an athlete (even the practice squad guys) and many times the player is considered a scrub merely because the poster hasn't seen anything from them yet. If the guy played and was consistently bad that is one thing, but sometimes a player just needs an opportunity or some seasoning/learning (See Stevie Johnson and C. J. Spiller, who were both considered scrubs/busts by many before they started producing). I'm not saying Dickerson is going to be a special player or anything, I don't know...but I'm not writing a 2nd/3rd year guy off already either without seeing what he can do. Especially one with the athletic skills he has. Who knows, maybe with the right coaching staff, who can find the right role for him, he'll be an asset for the team. Interesting: He played WR (8 games), TE (26 games), OLB (12 games), and returned kicks in college for Pitt Post-Draft Outlook: A closer look at the Texans' picks: Round 7/227 -- Dorin Dickerson, WR, 6-2, 226, Pittsburgh, They're moving the tight end/h-back to wide receiver because they like his size, speed, athleticism and versatility. They want him to focus on one spot rather than being a jack of all trades. http://www.nfldrafts...=2010&genpos=TE College Highlights A long pre-draft writeup http://www.cbssports...torical/1114988 Some scouting reports had him as a 3rd round selection (even though he fell to the 7th). Let's see what the kid can do with the new staff before we assume that he sucks.

I'm coming a bit late to the draft talk, so sorry if this is just rehash... I know many of you have been talking draft for a while now and I've read a number of posts, but I'm not really that familiar with the draft prospects (outside of the QBs or high profile guys). So, I wanted to watch some video of guys that the Bills might draft to get an idea for myself. But, which players to watch? So, I decided to first look at a number of mock drafts to figure out who will probably be the best players available at the Bills pick. So, I averaged out about 20 mocks (by "professional" football sites, not average joe rankings---and all recent: March/April 2013). These were the results: Consensus top 6: Avg. mock pos.= under 7 (should be gone by Bills pick according to mocks) OT Luke Joeckel 1.83 DT Sharrif Floyd 2.83 OT Eric Fisher 4.09 CB Dee Milliner 4.33 DE Dion Jordan 5.40 DE Ziggy Ansah 6.88 slots 7-11: Avg. mock pos. = 10 and under QB Geno Smith 7.60 DT Star Lotulelei 7.77 OT Lane Johnson 7.88 OG Chance Warmack 10.08 OLB Jarvis Jones 10.63 slots 12-16: Avg. mock pos. = Under 15 DE Barkevious Mingo 12.75 OG Jonathan Cooper 12.87 CB Xavier Rhodes 13.00 DT Sheldon Richardson 13.90 WR Cordarrelle Patterson 14.41 slots 17-19: Avg. mock pos. = Under 20 SS Kenny Vaccaro 16.42 DE Bjoern Werner 17.18 WR Keenan Allen 19.00 Now I know that mocks are just mocks, but if the average of these mocks give at least a decent assessment of the players in relation to their talent (not necessarily where they will actually go) then it looks like the Bills would pick a player from either the 7-11 or 12-16 range above. Anyone else, from a purely analytic look at these mocks, would be a reach (Barkley, Manuel, Nassib, Austin, etc.) With the acquisition of Branch, I'm assuming the bIlls won't go DT (so, I'll eliminate Lotulelei and Richardson). I don't think we have a big need at DE and he'd be a small reach (so I'd eliminate Mingo). So, per mock ranking and need it seems like the bills would be choosing from among the following players [One of which (Smith?) might be gone by our pick]: First tier (one of these three would appear to be the pick, strictly going by the mocks/need, if they're there) QB Geno Smith OG Chance Warmack OLB Jarvis Jones Second tier OT Lane Johnson OG Jonathan Cooper WR Cordarrelle Patterson CB Xavier Rhodes Does that seem about right to those of you who have been paying more attention to the draft than I have? Is there a sleeper player not on this list? Do you think one of the top 6 will fall for some reason? Who will Arizona pick at 7? Who do you like on the list? Who do you think the Bills will draft? I'd love to hear opinions.

Could someone who actually watches college football explain to me how Barkley goes from a bona fide top 5 pick, in league with RGIII and Andrew Luck last year to a 2nd rounder this year? Or even a 4th rounder per Greg Cosell at NFL.com (Even if he does end up getting picked in the first round). I know USC didn't have as good of a season and that he hurt his shoulder, but where did the negative perception come from. He had three full seasons of film before last year...did he reveal significant flaws this past season that he hadn't in the previous three seasons? Or was it just that the team as a whole was worse and he takes the brunt of that? I'm not pushing for Barkley, I just really wonder how his stock dropped so significantly. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Maybe these should be the main factors in searching out a QB rather than height/arm strength/speed, etc. Intelligence, poise, accuracy, touch, produces in big games These seem to be those intangibles everyone always talks about that Brady has in spades...producing in big games shows the competiveness, leadership, and want to be great; poise shows mental toughness (not letting things get to you); intelligence, accuracy, and touch (doesn't make a lot of mistakes).

According to ESPN and NFL.com, there are/were about 595 Free Agents (who were on an NFL roster last year). Only about 15% of them have signed thus far. That means that there are still about 500 FAs available. Maybe not all of the big names, but plenty of good players. The sky hasn't fallen yet for our Bills!

The guy is a class act period (read the WGR interview). Haters can stop hating now. Thanks Ryan for the Cincinnati comeback, the Raiders comeback, The New England game...thanks for helping Stevie, Scott, David, etc...thanks for giving it your all and being a true Buffalo Bill, embracing the team, the fans, and Western New York. I'll continue to be a fan. Good luck to you and your family.

If you pro-rate Vick's 10 games out to 16 here is how his stats from 2012 compare to Fitz: Comps. Vick 326 Fitz 306 Comp. % Vick 58.1% Fitz 60.6% Avg. yards/play Vick 6.7 Fitz 6.7 Comps. over 20 yds. Vick 43.2 Fitz 44 Comps. over 40 yds. Vick 6.4 Fitz 7 Yards Vick 3,779 Fitz 3,400 TDs Vick 19 Fitz 24 Ints Vick 16 Fitz 16 Fumbles lost Vick 8 Fitz 6 Sacks Vick 44.8 Fitz 30 Yds lost on sacks Vick 244.8 Fitz 161 Rush yds Vick 531 Fitz 197 Rush TDs Vick 1 Fitz 1 QB rating Vick 78.1 Fitz 83.3 Team Record Vick 4-12 Fitz 6-10 I thought we were looking to upgrade Fitz...where in all of that does it show that Vick is significantly better? NO to Vick!

I'm not saying Fitz should continue starting. I'd love an upgrade just like everyone else. Just pointing out that he's not as bad as some are making him out to be. Average stats as a starter is a big difference from 3rd stringer. And he makes for a good insurance policy. I have definitely been a Fitz supporter, but I was also supportive of drafting a QB last year. If we had, we wouldn't be in this place now, we'd already have a young guy ready to take the reins this year. For that matter, I wanted to draft Kaepernick the year before. But we didn't, so I supported Fitz and really thought he could get it done. But he didn't. I don't think it's all his fault, there was coaching, the horrible defense, injuries, etc. But he wasn't able to put the team on his back like a Franchise guy can and that's what we all want. So, the team needs to be proactive in finding that guy, but Fitz isn't even the worst starter in the league let alone a third stringer (as one person said).

That's right, I'm going to defend Fitz... Now, I'm all onboard with trying to find that QB of the future, a franchise guy (even if it means drafting two QBs this year, whatever it takes)... And I'm fine with those saying Fitz would be a great backup but they don't want him starting (that's reasonable). But to those who are saying that he is absolutely horrible, shouldn't even be a backup (3rd stringer at best), etc. Well, I just have to assume you are not the "so-called" realists on the board. So, what is reality? Yes, I'm going to bring those damn stats into the discussion... In 2012 Fitz ranked: 18th in yards with 3,400 16th in completions with 306 18th in completion % with 60.6 (QBs with at least 100 Atts, i.e. starting QBs) 13th in TDs with 24 8th in Ints with 16 In 2011 Fitz ranked: 11th in yards with 3,832 6th in completions with 353 10th in comp. % at 62 (QBs with at least 100 Atts, i.e. starting QBs) 10th in TDs with 24 1st in Ints with 23 What do the stats seem to say? Fitz is an average starting QB in this league. Of course, we all want better than average, but to say he's not even good enough to be a backup is just ridiculous. The two things that jump out is that his stats regressed in 2012 and that he has thrown too many INTs over the past two years. But, with the defenses we have had, we were always playing from behind and Fitz had to force it more, which leads to picks. That doesn't excuse him from throwing that many picks, but it does factor in. By the way, Fitz's annual salary in 2012 ranked 18th among starting QBs. About where his stats rank him. So, if the FO got him to restructure, I would be more than happy to keep Fitz as backup and even let him compete for the starting job. What if we whiff on drafting a QB. Then what? And what FA could we bring in that would be a significant upgrade to Fitz? You could make a case for Alex Smith maybe (although I'm dubious of that) but after him, who? Fitz is a team guy, not a prima donna, so I don't think there would be any disruption in the locker room if he doesn't start. I would trust him coming into a game if the new starter went down. And not only is he smart, but he's been in the NFL 8 years and has started 74 games. How would that experience not be a help to a young QB learning the ropes?

As to the permission issue, the Jets could decline not because Rex is vindictive, but because they don't want one of their top coaches to go to a division rival where he could not only be a good coach for the new team, but also have a huge window into what Rex does and how to try to counter it. If the Bills can't interview him until sometime in February, they'll probably look for someone else rather than wait as 7 other teams will be trying to build a staff as well. Then Pettine could go anywhere else, but not be in the division facing Rex twice a year. (Guess it's a moot point now per Kelly's post above)

Since Marrone is an offensive coach I trust he will (and has the contacts to) hire the best guy to run HIS offense, so my thoughts (like many others) are on who will be the DC. In many posts today, there was much talk about Lovie Smith as both a head coach or DC. But as Others have pointed out, he ran the Tampa 2 Defense. We have switched defensive styles twice recently when we didn't have the personnel for it. So, if the Bills and Marrone are smart and want a quicker turnaround, they'll look at the roster (the players they want to keep at least) and say what is the best system to fit the players we have. Then go get the best DC they can to run that system. It would seem with our D-line and the need for LBs (having to get 3 rather than 4), we would stick with a 4-3 defense. So, does that preclude Lovie or other Tampa 2 or 3-4 alignment coaches from the DC position? If so, who are the top 4-3 DC candidates out there? Or 4-3 coordinators who have ties with Marrone?

Late to the thread as I was on the road all day, but... Great Post! Agree 100%. The change had to be made, but I do appreciate all that Chan did do and tried to do for this team even though it ultimately didn't work out. And how could anyone gripe about what he said...He just got fired by a team and then holding back tears he says he'll still pull for this team. Despite his record Chan will always be a Bill to me. I know I will continue to pull for Chan as well, wherever he goes!

From a purely talent stand-point (not weighing in coaching/schemes), I think the Bills once again overrated some of their own players (as they have with the WR and other positions for the last few years), on defense... They thought Aaron Williams was ready...he was not (not sure if he'll ever be) They thought Sheppard was ready...nope (and no back-up plan) They didn't even really have a 2nd OLB (so not even an A plan) While I love G. Wilson and think he is a talented player, he is not that punishing type of Strong Safety that's needed. When you add in that Marcel was underperforming due to the tragedy in his family, Mario's wrist, and Anderson ending on IR, then with hindsight it's not difficult to see what went wrong. Pressure was lazy from one side and we were soft up the middle (Dareus, Sheppard, Wilson) with a CB on the outside who was vulnerable and LBs (being young and undisciplined) not staying in their gaps. For many teams, the intimidators, the punishers on their team are the middle linebacker and strong safety... think Ray Lewis, London Fletcher, Polamalu, Ed Reed, etc....Shep and Wilson aren't that. Plus Shep was the QB of the D...maybe he just wasn't good at that aspect of the job either (getting everyone where they needed to be). So, going forward, I think Brooks has a chance of filling the outside corner spot. McGee is done, McKelvin should be back-up. I wouldn't play Rodgers out of the slot and have no confidence in Williams. We need another CB, so we have a plan B if Brooks doesn't step up next year (or just to compete for the job). LBs: I think Barnett would be fine if he had 2 NFL starting caliber LBs to play alongside. So we need at least 2 but maybe even 3 or 4 new LBs (I want depth as well as new starters) and at least one of them has to be an enforcer. (WOW have we missed on LBs in the draft: Tank, Sheppard, White, Moats, Harris, Bowen. Granted in the last 5 years, the 7 LBs we took we're taken in rounds 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, and 6) Strong Safety: We need a bruiser back there, that can still cover. That's not Wilson and I'm not sold that Searcy is the answer either. To fix this D, we need 1CB, 2-4 LBs, and a tougher SS.