DrDawkinstein

Super Bowl experience is Super Bowl experience and it's obviously rubbed off on him as demonstrated by his coaching. And we have 8 hours to burn so strap in! Go Bills!

THREE. How many does McD have?

Vrabel not only builds culture like McD, but also has what McD lacks. He is a Belichick disciple and knows the rule book forwards and backwards, and has beat BB at his own game using loop holes and angles to squeak out wins when his players need him most, and is great at in-game decisions. He lead a team with Ryan freaking Tannehill at QB to the #1 seed twice. Imagine what he could do with Josh Allen making it all that easier. As far as rolling the dice on a first time HC... McD was never a HC before Buffalo either, and now you refuse to even consider getting rid of him. My man, you are abslutely being a McD apologist. We've laid out a bunch of very good replacement candidates and you poke a single hole in each one and cling to it. I dont believe that you'd fire him if we had a better shot with someone else. That's just a convenient line since EVERYONE is a maybe. McD isnt a maybe tho. He's proven he cant get it done. No blind hate or frustration here. Just calmly looking at the reality of recent history.

LETS GOOOOO I'm already sick of all the "experts" picking the Ravens to win in some big revenge game. It's personal to the Bills too! The boys better come out fired up and ready!

Exactly what Waldron and his friends would say. Just like Spain, and Doug Whaley, and everyone else Dunne associates with that is trying to save face and resurrect their careers. Weird that Waldron was the one fired mid-season then.

I'm almost 100% certain most of this is coming directly from Shane Waldron, the OC the Bears fired midseason due to incompetence and refusing to do his job of developing Williams. The big story on Waldron was when he straight up refused to watch film with Caleb Williams AT ALL. Williams had to seek outside sources to help him review film and learn what to look for, and even had to setup his own film study room, because Waldron refused to do it with him. Complete coaching malpractice and stealing money from the team. As far as "not knowing how to watch film" and "calling the plays wrong"... yeah, I believe all that was true. Not because Williams has a problem, but because A LOT of quarterbacks come out of college having never huddled, having never called a play, having never even taken a snap from under center (and have to learn how to take the snap, and do their drop-back for the first time as a pro). It's up to the coaching staffs on their pro teams to teach and develop them, and Waldron refused. He was fired midseason due to this incompetence, and is now on a revenge tour after all this came out. I'm not even a Caleb Wiliams fan, but this is just doing him dirty. Shane Waldron is to Caleb Williams as Quinton Spain is the Sean McDermott.

Yep, there will be a huge sense of closure/satisfaction. I'll finally be able to watch the Four Falls of Buffalo. I'll finally be able to watch highlights from the 13 second game. It will lift the burden off of all those disappointments and let downs, and let me enjoy them as they are, knowing it ultimately leads to the to of the mountain. I'll probably take the entire next season "off". I'm sure I'd still watch, but wont need to be so focused in. I've seen it first hand with a lot of my UGA friends down here in Atlanta. After their first Natty a few years ago, the weight was off, the next season was so easy-going. The fact they went back-to-back then allowed them to take a break altogether. Must be nice!

I've had this exact thought for after a Super Bowl victory. Already have the first post drafted. Hopefully we get to use it soon!

Likely the case. But I myself was a pretty ardent McD supporter all the way up to 2022/2023 (and still have a lot of love for the guy). But the trends are just too blatant to ignore at this point.

"I better get up there for the parade and enjoy the city before we burn it down" haha, EXACTLY! Will be the party of the century.

Sure. If you've read this thread I've already posted some names that many of us have/had been calling for over the last few years. Beane can stay, this thread isnt about Beane. Nor have I ever posted about replacing Beane. He isnt perfect, but no GM is. And as you point out, continuity is good sometimes. There is no "wrath", take a step back and calm down a bit. No one is beating up on McD. No one is calling him names or a failure. We've all been stating that he's very good. The issue is he doesnt have that last gear to get us to a Championship. We're just discussing ways to improve, yet the McD-defenders are the ones that resort right to personal insults and hyperbole. Addtionally, no one has claimed "guaranteed" success. Only that it is very likely to not regress considering Josh and the rest of the roster, especially compared to the rest of the Division. And I've shown there IS a track record of good teams with good QBs making a change and sustaining success. You havent been able to prove otherwise in any example. And given what McD has already shown, there is no way you can guarantee we'll ever do better. I've already named Sean Payton, Jim Harbaugh, and Mike Vrabel as coaches that many of us had been calling for over the last few years. Payton already out-coached McD head-to-head in 2023 in his first year with the hapless Broncos lead by lame duck Russell Wilson, when McD had to burn his time outs and then still messed up on the final FG having 12 men on the field, handing the Broncos another FG chance due to our disorganization. Payton has also turned the Broncos around with Bo frickin Nix at QB so there is zero chance of regressing with Josh here. Vrabel will absolutely steal a win against us soon enough, likely with another Belichick-esque coaching maneuver to gain a last second FG or the like. Put money on it. Heck, at this point I'd take a chance with Ben Johnson too. Who knows who the next prospects are. We'll see how this season plays out and other options that pop up. I'd love to see a link to your posts in December 2016 calling for your beloved Sean McDermott to be hired. We didnt know then, just like we dont fully know who might be out there now. But we certainly know McDermott's weaknesses and his refusal to step up in the playoffs, and his penchant for blowing decisions when it matters most. They have been proven over and over across the last 5-6 years. How many more do you need? How much longer of Josh's prime do you give him? 1 year? 5? Rest of Josh's career?

The Titans were 8-8 then 6-10 before firing Fisher and had an aging Kerry Collins at QB. Doesnt fit your example. The Bengals were 6-10 and 7-9 before firing Lewis, who already had a reputation for underperforming, and had 2nd tier QB Andy Dalton at the helm. Not elite and doesnt fit your example. And Zac Taylor with Burrow has absolutely been a better situation. The Chargers went right back to the AFC Championship the year after firing Marty, and made the playoffs the next 4 years under Turner. No big drop off. The Bears were 10-6 and 8-8 and hadnt made the playoffs for 2 years before firing Smith. Doesnt really fit your qualifiers. All these examples, plus my examples, have proven is that truly good teams with great QBs do NOT fall off with a coaching change. With more of them being even more successful after the change. The only reason not to change is fear. We are already wasting them. That's the point. So to the second question... If we fall short again in the playoffs this year, and it's once again obviously due to the defense, will that start you coming around? Or are you dug in on McD forever? How many more years of Josh's prime are you willing to continue wasting? 1? 5? All of them?

Answer my questions first. What are your examples from these "plenty of teams" who were good, made a coaching change, and then wasted their elite QB's prime, as you said. If we fall short again in the playoffs this year, and it's once again obviously due to the defense, will that start you coming around? Or are you dug in on McD forever?

Major difference between how Pegula handles the Sabres vs how he handles the Bills. He thinks he's a hockey guy. Thats how he got into this whole sports business to begin with. He has a very active role in the Sabres hirings. With the Bills and NFL, he knows he's in over his head. HE didnt find McD, a consulting firm he hired did. He would hire that same consulting firm. None of the previous hires over "17 years" matter since it was different ownership and management.

Plenty of teams? Like who? Which perennial playoff team fired their Head Coach and regressed so terribly? The Eagles fired Reid and won a Super Bowl with his successor. Then fired THAT GUY, and have since gone back to TWO Super Bowls winning one of them. The Bucs moved on from Dungy and won the Super Bowl the next year. The Colts fired Dungy and went to the SB the next year. The Cowboys fired Jimmy Johnson and won a SB with his replacement the following year. I look forward to your examples of playoff teams that fired their head coach and then fell apart. Yes. I'm willing to take that chance because what we already have has proven he cant get it done. No matter who we hire, the rest of the Division still sucks while we still have Josh. So winning the division and making the playoffs every year is a given. That is our floor. For McD or the new hire. There is no "setting us back years". Worst case is a wild card spot if there is a year NE gets hot. If we took that gamble and hired a new HC, how long would you give him before you were calling for them to be fired? Is it as long as the 5-6 season with "good Josh" that McDermott has gotten, plus how many more you are willing to give him? If we fall short again in the playoffs this year, and it's once again obviously due to the defense, will that start you coming around? Or are you dug in on McD forever? Worse than a gamble you are betting on a horse who has proven he cant win the race.

Those games are a BLAST too But now that you mention it, the stadium being built on an ancient Indian burial ground and cursing the city in everything EXCEPT LACROSSE does add up...

Hilarious example in this discussion considering the Bulls fired Doug Collins (who helped develop a young Jordan) and brought in Phil Jackson in order to take the next step and become Championship Caliber. Thank you for proving our point.

False. Plenty of posters have provided viable options over the last few years. Sean Payton, Jim Harbaugh, Mike Vrabel, Ben Johnson. The Bills with Josh would be the most attractive job opening maybe in the history of the NFL. We could pull any top candidate. We wont. But we could. The idea that we'd end up with some lesser quantity is based in nothing but fear and PTSD from the Ralph era. Promoting Brady and hiring a Spags/Fangio type would be ideal. (Actual ideal would be just winning a SB with McD, but...)

We've already wasted 8 years. How many more are you willing to risk on the known quantity that has proven he cant get it done? Why is McD so different that he gets an indefinite timeline, but you want to cap anyone else? If you're worried about wasting Josh's career, then welcome aboard.

And then they fired Pederson too, and went right back to the Super Bowl and then won another one...

Excuses, excuses. Every team deals with injuries and bad bounces. Good coaches make their own luck. In 2021, we needed a stop in just 13 seconds and our Defensive HC let us down. Last season, KC just needed one stop, and Spags sent a new blitz off the right side we had never seen before because he knew Josh would roll right. THAT is the difference. Maybe not right this minute. But Payton, Harbaugh, and Vrabel were all out there and should have been strongly considered. Oh BS. We have Josh. We win 10-12 games every year with him at QB and ME coaching (and I dont know jack!). Changing coaches, at worst, means we only win 10-12 games each year. To your point, we still have Miami, NE, and the Jets in the Division. Taking the Division and making the playoffs, with a Josh Allen on the team, is a given. This is about what happens once we;re in the playoffs and all the talent is equal and it is coaching that sets teams apart.

So true and unfortunate. I'm on record in a ton of posts singing McD's praises for what he does well. And he does plenty well. Unfortunately, where he lacks is exactly the difference between playoff team and Super Bowl championship. But anytime we talk about that nuance, the insults and strawmen start flying. The best description of McD I've seen is "He's the type of coach that can take a 4-13 team to the wild card round. And also the type of coach who can take a 14-3 team to the wild card round". Making the playoffs isnt the goal anymore. I'm happy with it and I love winning the division, but the goal now is winning the Super Bowl. And that takes a different level that we havent seen from him once in 9 years.

Great post, lot to respond to here IMO, if you are looking to bring in another HC in an advisory role, then that is enough evidence that you just need to fire him and move on. I actually think McD would be better in a President/advisory role where he can help set the culture. My issue with McD is with in-game decisions and "playing it safe (scared)" when he should be looking to stick a dagger in the opponent. And more so, his inability to step it up a notch in the playoffs. I'm looking for a link or video, but there were clips and articles recently discussing how the coaches who win in the playoffs (Reid, Siriani, McVay) know that when they get to the playoffs they need to make changes and take their schemes and teams to the next level. Where as McDermott stays in his base schemes and continues to rely on his players just making plays. That works in the regular season just fine, but we've seen it bite us in the ass numerous times in the playoffs. This team lacks that extra gear and that is due to McD. For Sean, and this team, to take the next step, I think he needs to bring in a real Defensive Coordinator, let them run their own scheme and stay out of their way. And Sean should just be a true HC. Or we can find a HC who will.

Lots of interesting tidbits... Josh is too busy to watch Hard Knocks (for the "get back in the film room" crew) Fitz wasnt happy being a Harvard alum last year, wonder what that was about. Loved Fitz and Whit's reaction to "we'll always be in the honeymoon phase". Oh young love... Fitz and Whit at 18:00 mention they paid Spencer Browns fines for fighting last year. Cybo is the funniest OL out of all those characters even tho he seems so quiet Everyone is afraid of Spencer Brown McD goes by gut feeling on whether Josh plays in preseason and sat him last minute once (wonder if we avoided an disaster there) Hyped on Keon Coleman and how he's learning how to live the NFL lifestyle. Wonder what that means. Commitment to his craft? I didnt catch who Big Cheese could be, but Chrome is Krome, Aaron Kromer.