DrDawkinstein

3rd rd pick on Singletary, wasnt the guy. 3rd rd pick on Moss, wasnt the guy. FA money on Chris Ivory, Frank Gore Sr, TJ Yeldon, Latavius Murray... Trade and re-sign Nyheim Hines... None of them, NONE of them, are anything close to the playmaker Cook has proven to be. Not even current board favorite, Ray Davis (the backups are always the most popular guys). Getting a true playmaker at RB who can be a gamechanger and take it to the house on any given play is NOT an easy position to fill. Finding a guy who has that special ability and who can therefore take those dangerous carries out of Josh's hands and prolong his health is NOT an easy position to fill. We finally have that and everyone is ready to let him walk because of a few meaningless posts on social media. Absolutely insane.

I'd say it's working exactly as intended for both the teams and the players.

I gave way more examples than that. Namely, 2021, 2022, and 2023's drafts. I've even added the links now so you can see for yourself. And I'm sure if I went through more drafts, we wouldnt be surprised to see the talent fall off after the first 25 picks or so. And there is no guarantee that Jefferson/Josh works out like Diggs/Josh. Remember, Diggs was the savvy vet who provided some guidance to a young Josh. Much different when our development project QB now has to also coach up a rookie at WR. Could've happened, but success doesnt happen in a vacuum. It's very situational in the NFL. I'm not saying we always should. I'm just saying that doing so isnt crazy.

True, but it's not just about Elam and our worst busts. The reality of the situation is, there isnt (or at least hasnt been) talent available when we pick. Therefore, trading our 1st for a known quantity and high level talent shouldnt be seen aas a crazy idea. Ideally, sure, we hit on the pick and have a top talent for 4-5 very affordable years. But that talent hasnt even been there to hit on.

I'll look up the numbers for 2023 which is the only year all 4 were on the team, and for overall contracts. But before I do I'll assume the three of them added up still cost far less than Diggs on his own. But I'd also argue we got way more production out of Diggs than all 3 of them combined. Elam really sandbagging and helping my argument there haha. edit: 2023 Rousseau $1.7M Elam $1.3M Kincaid ~$1.5M Diggs like $25M lol So, I see the value in the 1st round picks, especially dollar-wise. But if those picks don't, won't, or can't produce then what's the point of saving the money? And again, it isnt even a GM problem. Look at those drafts again. There simply isnt anyone there that wouldve been a better pick even with the benefit of hindsight.

I get that. But the talent simply isnt there where we are picking in the 1st.

You could probably replace those names with all our own players we extended. I know that doesnt follow the exact path of your conversation, but it is relevant to the overall discussion of the Bengals FO/Mike Brown and how they build a team (od dont). To rewind the tape all the way back to the beginning, I think if the Bengals were an organization that, like the Bills, extends players early it changes everything. Assuming they did it the "right" way, they would already have Chase and Hendrickson re-signed. By having them re-signed early, they would have 1. likely saved some money, and 2. at least give the illusion of being proactive and having a plan. So that when they don't re-sign Higgins, instead of looking inept and like they are always playing catch up from a position of weakness, they could say "we have a lot of guys to pay, we paid all the guys in our plan, can't pay everyone". Then, with the money they're saving with early extensions and the money they are saving by being able to choose to not pay Higgins, they could take that and sign other FAs. It's just another perspective on why teams like the Bills and Eagles are doing it right, and teams like the Cowboys and Bengals are doing it wrong.

It's technically possible. It just isnt typical Mike Brown behavior. I think folks assume he stretched so far to get these deals done that he's done stretching. We'll see.

I get the value of them, and the potential perks. However, I also understand we are no longer the consistently 6-10 drought Bills picking in the 8-12 range. Being at the end of the round every year significantly affects the value of our 1st round picks. Looking back at our recent drafts, even with the benefit of hindsight, there arent even other players there within the next 10-15 picks that we should've drafted. No one after Elam in 2022 stands out as must-haves or big misses. No one in 2023 after Kincaid. Not even in 2021 with Rousseau. The talent level just isnt there. Couple that with this year being a specifically "low" talent draft. Outside of the benefit of the 5th year option, I dont see much reason to hold onto a 1st round pick when there is known talent available in a vet. edit: To put it another way, out of Rousseau, Kincaid, Elam, and Diggs who had the biggest impact and most value to the team? The answer is far and away Diggs. Maybe even more so than all 3 of the other guys combined, and I like Rousseau and Kincaid.

AKA the Jerry Jones method

I think I trust Beane more to hit on those mid round picks than whoever he would move up for in the 1st 🙈

Edmunds and Kincaid. Although Im not sure what that says about is trade-up track record, haha But we also got jumped in 2022 when the 1st round talent ran out and panic picked Elam... We'll see 🤞

I dont disagree on those players, but I dont think they'll be available when we pick. This class reminds me of 2022 where all the "1st round grades" will go before us and we're stuck panic picking to fill a need. This new winning culture of the Bills has really killed the draft fun for me But I'm not complaining.

I believe this has already been addressed. The Bengals have nothing close to the Eagles OL and DL of 2024. I think the point is the Eagles can pay those guys when they draft well in the trenches first. The Bengals have not done that more important part. They are far closer to the Dolphins with Hill and Waddle and unable to do anything because their OL and DL suck.

Ha, for some reason I thought he was mid/late 20s. That said, he's not 31 either. He just turned 30 and will be 30 for almost all of this upcoming season. Splitting hairs, but each year does make a difference. I'm still willing to give one 1st rd pick and a player. We pick so late, we're never finding anyone at that level anyways.

30 is usually ok for DEs, but yeah, its his injury history that ages him even faster. Fingers crossed.

Holy smokes youre right. Crazy. I didnt realize Hendrickson is 30 and been around that long. That changes things a little for me...

I would hope so as they are all different. Bosa is mostly a has-been signed on a prove-it deal at the end of his career. Hoecht is young, but a rotational guy at best. Hendrickson is young and playmaker/gamechanger. I think the real question is do we go after Hendrickson after paying Groot. But I'm not against throwing a lot of money in to the DE position.

2025 1st rd pick 2026 1st rd pick AJ Epenesa just to give them someone for their roster. Make it happen. Mike Brown isnt giving out another big contract.

Was just coming back in to post this. No way Mike Brown is spending any more cash. Hendrickson good as gone.

I think he could still do well even with mediocre WRs if he had a better OL. I'd be interested in seeing what he could do behind a line like ours.

Interesting move. It wasnt quite Burrow who demanded it, but Higgins and his agent...

2.66* yr deal

If this works out, who on the Bills is the new Arthur Moats?

cool cool cool