dave mcbride

You are imagining a lot of things about other posters that aren't true. Don't be so defensive.

50% is far greater than 0%. That is the Bills' batting average with franchise qbs over the past 22 years, and they have never drafted a qb in the top 5. No guts, no glory -- and never very much winning.

A franchise qb is a 15-year investment. Good teams also know how to use free agency now too - guys who have actually proven that they can play in the NFL rather than college prospects.

I am not going to respond to the meat of this because it's pointless, but have you never really heard the term knuckle dragger? If not, look it up.

Oh jeez. Given that the 10th ranked school is 964 (very sad in and of itself) and a) Alabama isn't in that top 10 and b) Alabama ranks 50th out of 51 states (plus DC, which is last) in high school math scores, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say 925-950 is a pretty accurate guess. In fact, I'd bet money on it. I don't know what or who you're arguing on behalf of at this point. Why do you even care about the academic performance of the team's football players? It doesn't tell you anything about the overall school (which you seem to care most about).

This is a ridiculous question, but let's start with Rueben Foster and Marcel Dareus. I neither know enough about their roster (nor actually care) but feel very confident in surmising that the average SAT score hovers in the 925 range given that they're an SEC school competing with the likes of Florida (a better academic school) for talent. https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/paper-trail/2008/12/30/athletes-show-huge-gaps-in-sat-scores A 925-950 score on the SAT is actually terrible. You know that, right?

Give it up. Look up UNC. Look up Florida State in Jimbo's glory days. To repeat, this is really the wrong hill to die on. Big time college sports is thoroughly corrupt but entertaining. It is what it is. Accept it.

Man, you are very, very naive about what it takes for a player at a big time D1 school to get a “degree”. Piece of advice: check out their majors, look into the special tutor systems at these places, and read up on UNC, a better school than Alabama. The guys who don’t get their degrees are generally the really good ones who can enter the draft after their junior year. These schools make it about as easy as possible for people at 6th grade reading levels to graduate with ease. Without getting into detail, I have spent the last three decades of my life at major university institutions. I know what I’m talking about. The Alabama “scholar athlete” is the wrong hill to die on. Accept big time D1 football for what it is: a thoroughly corrupt institution that makes a ton of money for the big schools and which has absolutely nothing to do with academics. I wouldn’t fault anyone for enjoying a system that I think shouldn’t exist in its current form — it is highly entertaining, after all — but I do ask that people at least see it for what it truly is.

Foles is a very good player in the right system. Kelly and Pederson had the right system for him; Jeff Fisher didn't.

https://www.nytimes.com/1983/05/03/sports/elway-traded-to-broncos-by-colts.html Chris Hinton made 6 pro bowls for the Colts at LT. The 1984 first rounder they received from Denver - Ron Solt - made the pro bowl for the Colts as an offensive guard. They traded him to Philly in late 1988 because of a contract dispute and got Philly's first rounder in '89 and a 4th rounder in '90. With that 1989 first rounder, they took Andre Rison. They traded Rison a year later as part of a package deal with Atlanta to get the number one overall pick, Jeff George. From 1983 to 1998, the Colts never won 10 games. Denver, despite giving up two first round picks that turned out to be pro bowl offensive linemen, had a good run with Elway. Franchise qbs are 15-year investments. Worrying about the line situation for this year or the next is a waste of time. Whoever they take will likely be sitting for much or all of his rookie season anyway.

I think the Colts did the right thing. Chris Hinton made 6 pro bowls, after all! https://www.nytimes.com/1983/05/03/sports/elway-traded-to-broncos-by-colts.html

Good theory, actually, but I can't help but think that this board is collectively here at this point, but with Dave Gettleman subbed in for Obi Wan. Gettleman has never traded down in his life:

Butler had some bad luck in 2000, plain and simple. He was the guy who scouted and really pushed for Thurman Thomas, by the way.

Stanford absolutely relaxes its academic standards for athletes (I speak with authority on this because I know someone who was recruited there). So does Duke, Northwestern, Vandy, and ND. I can't believe you said that! And we do know the admission standards for football players at UCLA, Alabama, and Clemson: in a word, low.

Way, way too early to tell. He got better as the season went along and had 6 catches for 101 yards and a TD in the playoff game against NO.

Incidentally, I think that Butler was a good GM. There are a lot of weird things that go unmentioned in all of this. Butler desperately wanted Leeland McElroy in 1996, but he had to settle for Eric Moulds! In 2000, he had every intention of drafting Ahmad Plummer - a fantastic CB until he got hurt (back issues) a couple of years into his career - but SF snatched him right before the Bills picked. In the second round, he really liked Mike Brown and Deon Grant and was champing at the bit to draft either of them in that order. Unfortunately, Brown went at 39 and Grant went one pick before he took Tillman. He drafted Tillman for need, figuring that a guy who was a 4th-5th round talent was the only decent safety left and that he had to grab him or lose out altogether. Grant played for 12 years and won a SB ring with the Giants in 2011. Change it around slightly, and it ends up looking pretty good.

You are misquoting him. He is clearly referring to SAT admission standards for the athletes, not the general student population. I am also very confident that he knows that UCLA has quite low SAT standards for its football players too. He named Alabama because they are flat-out the best program in the country. Like UCLA, most (not all) of the guys they recruit are basically knuckle draggers. The same goes for other elite public universities like Michigan and (infamously) UNC. As for Stanford v. UCLA, Stanford's admissions standards are higher, but it is a fact that UCLA is the second-most difficult public university to get into (based on acceptance rates) in the country after Berkeley. Comparing public and private universities is an apples-and-oranges exercise in any case; they serve different functions. As an institution overall, UCLA is pretty much always ranked in the top 15 universities globally. Stanford is higher, but it's not as if there's a huge gap. As for comparing their football teams over the long haul, UCLA's record is infinitely better than Stanford's. Stanford has, however, been a lot better in the last decade or so. UCLA had a lot of bad coaches of late despite constantly bringing in talent. Finally, football is a team game. UCLA's defense this year was historically awful. Jalen Hurts, who sucks, had a very good won-loss record if you believe in that sort of thing. I don't.

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/136094178/ DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE. ROCHESTER. N.Y., SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 16, 1996 Last season, Johnson served as Kelly's personal whipping boy. Johnson made numerous errors running pass patterns, and Kelly never let an occasion pass without pointing out Johnson's gaffe. This year, Johnson thinks he has cut down on the mental errors, and his problems are more physical. "I wish I had an explanation," Johnson said. "All I can say is I didn't get it done. It all goes back to being focused on the ball and watching it coming into my hands." Johnson knows his pass-catching production has to increase in order for the Bills offense to click. "It's a very important position, and if I don't get it done, the offense is not going to go," he said. "It's like having a car with an old battery, it's not going to run smoothly. "I heard someone say the only thing consistent about Lonnie Johnson is his inconsistency. I'm trying to work at the things that I'm supposed to do and do them well so I won't be the loose link in the chain." Kelly said of his talented but streaky tight end. Johnson thinks the problem has been a lack of practice catching balls. In training camp, Johnson stood in front of a Jugs machine every day and caught at least 100 balls. Once the regular season began, he got away from that drill because he has had to spend more time studying game plans and perfecting his blocking techniques. ''You try to work on all aspects of your game, and I guess I've been working so hard at the blocking, maybe you can say that's why the receiving has decreased," he said. "I'm a guy who has to work hard on catching the ball in order to perform as a receiver, so that's something I need to get back to doing to get out of this slump that I'm in right now." Tight end is a vital position in the Bills offense. When the Bills run their counter plays with Thur-man Thomas, the tight end has to be a good blocker, and Johnson has upgraded his skills. He has had at least two plays where his block was the one that sprung Thomas for a touchdown. "I have made progress at blocking, and I'm beginning to enjoy it a lot more than when I first came here," Johnson said. "I think I can call it a strength of mine." Coach Marv Levy agreed. "He's done a very good job of blocking as our running game has improved," Levy said. "He's done a superior job as a blocker." But in the same breath, Levy added: "He hasn't been as involved in the passing game, however." And that has been a detriment In past years, Kelly has relied heavily on the likes of former tight ends Pete Metzelaars and Keith McKeller and nothing has changed as Kelly has thrown Johnson's way almost as frequently. The difference is that Metzelaars and McKeller rarely let Kelly down. Johnson has made driving Kelly nuts an art form. "Of all the receivers, I'm on Lonnie a little more because I know what he can do," Kelly said of his propensity for directing tirades at Johnson. "The thing is, I can't say too much because he's getting it from all directions, his coach (tight ends coach Don Lawrence), the offensive line coach (Tom Bresnahan) because of blocking, and from me telling him how to run a route. "He's probably getting so much coaching, it's probably driving him crazy. He just needs to concentrate and not worry about anything but catching and running with it" The scene has become all too familiar, and Buffalo Bills tight end Lonnie Johnson realizes it. Every time Johnson drops a Jim Kelly pass, he shakes his head and points his fingers at himself to let everyone know it was his fault Give credit to Johnson for owning up to a mistake, but Kelly, the coaches and scores of Bills fans would prefer the third-year pro stop worrying about owning up, and just catch the ball. "I would say that I'm in a slump, compared to the way I got started," Johnson said. "At least it feels that way." It looks that way, too. In the first eight games, Johnson caught 31 balls for 292 yards. In the last two, he has more drops (3) than , receptions (2), and was held without a catch by the Philadelphia Eagles. "It concerns me a little bit because I know what Lonnie is capable of. "Buffalo Bills Lonnie Johnson's stats have suffered lately. The third-year pro dropped three balls in last two games. ?? - I never said he was playing with hall of fame talent. You must be confusing me with another poster.

The Colts got OT Chris Hinton from Denver in the Elway trade. Hinton went to six pro bowls for the Colts. The Colts never won ten games while was there despite the fact that he was a dominating lineman.

Believe what you want to believe about Lonnie Johnson. I wish others who have knowledge would weigh in on this. I have a sneaking suspicion that most would agree with my take. Perhaps most importantly, did you watch the games he played in? If so, what percentage? Lonnie Johnson is the wrong hill to die on.

I honestly don't know what your point is. What does Stanford have to do with this *at all*? Are you also aware that UCLA's defense was among the worst in the country (117th out of 130 schools) and that Rosen played only half a season the year before? Argue better.

I think you're making a basic error here. Rosen wasn't really demeaning either Alabama or Clemson. He picked them out because for two year running they have been the most elite programs in the country, and teams that are loaded with five-star recruits. At this point in time, they get way better talent than any school not named USC. That's the point.

He picked a RB with great receiving ability in the top ten last year. It turns out to have been a good pick.

Consider who his hero is, after all!

Did you watch the games Johnson played in? I did - all of them. Johnson sucked, and he dropped a LOT of passes. I can't find the stats, but I really do trust my memory on this one. He was a bad blocker too. He was famous for it, actually. Any number of people here who followed the Bills closely in those years will tell you the same thing. The Bills had high hopes for him but he was a MAJOR disappointment. Also, don't get caught up with catch numbers. As I always say about the NBA, even the worst teams in league history average 80+ points a game, and someone on that team is getting ~20 pts per game. It doesn't mean he's any good. Same goes for tackles in the NFL. *Someone* has to get assigned a tackle on every defensive play. The stat doesn't tell us much about whether a player is good or not, however. The tackle leaders for the Bills in 2012 were, in order, George Wilson, Nick Barnett, and Kelvin Sheppard. None were any good. And yes, Todd Collins sucked. Terrible outcome for that pick. No argument there.