Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

JP got benched cause his play was terrible every game. Yes you can say TE has self destructed, however the difference is for the most part, JP had nothing to self distruct from as every week was the same. TE is getting a much longer rope than JP got because he is less experienced than JP is so you don't expect quite as much and he did have FIVE pretty good games to start the season with. And in 3 of the last 4 loses, as weak as he played, he was the teams only offenseive weapon. He did generate first down and kept the offense moving. The NE game and the Cleve game he looked very bad, but even in the NE game, there was little if any other offensive play from anyone else. The Cleveland game is the one game where I can totally say his play cost us the game. The other games, as little as he did, no one else did anything. So he did show he's capable of playing well. JP never had more than maybe two decent games, then a terrible game. I will grant you the offenseive line that TE is playing behind last year certianly was better thna JP had andf you expected it to be better this year too. However up until this past week, it was pretty poor. But as bad as things were those years, the Bills did run the ball better than they did agaisnt the three AFC east teams that we lost to. What did we have 150 yards rushing in the three games combined? If the next two games, the line and running game plays like it did against Cleveland, then TE has no excuses. They also have their entire offense back this week I believe??

RW pays the going rate for players, but he does skimp on coaches.

First off they still had one TO left. After missing the kick when Cleve took over they used it after 1st down. Second, when the Bills kicked there was still 35-40 seconds left. There was still plenty of time whatever happened to get the kick off. Plus if they tried even one pass and it was incomplete, when the Bills kicked there likely would have been over a minute left and the imcomplete would have stopped the clock. There were only two bad outcomes from throwing a pass, he gets sacked which would have taken him out of FG range totally , then they would have to pass next play unless of course it happened on third down, or an INT. Personally I thought they should have passed on 2nd down, and short pass maybe 5 yards or so and who knows what happens after the catch. It would be unlikely for him to have been sacked too as that was one of the few bright spots the oline did play well and gave him good protection.

Last time I looked it takes two to sign a contract. Do you honestly think JP would ever sig nan extension with the Bill's. I think JP has been very good about being a "good team player" not complaining, etc. But I don't think under any circumstances he'd ever re-sign with Buffalo. The only way I'd see it happen is if no other teams made him an offer and the Bill's made a decnet offer for him as a number two. However, if he played the rest of the seaso nwell enough to lead the team to the playoffs, then he likely would get other offers from teams, so he's gone then. The only chance he'd likely have of not getting any offers is if he doesn't play anymore and the last impression he gave teams was from the Ar. game. That's one reason why I argue it would make no sense to play JP as in no way would it benefit the Bills' beyond possibly giving them some wins this season, and that's assuming he played better than TE. If he doesn't play better, than TE just lost playing time. If he does play better he signs with someone else. I don't think Tom Brady or Peyton Manning could take this team to the Super Bowl, so if you're going to maybe at best win a wild card and lose in first round, is that much better than to make playoffs and get better drasft picks.

I disagree. I'ts not Lindells fault they didn't even try to get closer and give him an easier kick. I'd be pissed if I were him that they left him with a 47 yarder in cold weather instead of trying to get closer. And I don't blame TE for that decision either but put the blame there on the coaches. The ycould have called a safe pass, roll out throw to a slant??

Maybe that's why he got benched?? Maybe he ran the wrong route or something and it's just happened one too many times?? Not to excuse TE, but that could be why Hardy was set down?

o is he a lame duck or not?? Anything new there?

I'd also underline Lindell, Mormann, and probably Parrish but for ST play and he ain't a bd #4 or 5 receiver.

Who's van pelt?? Not Alex??? Is he still QB coach for the Bills??

That's not what was stated. Do you have trouble reading?? What was stated is you or no one one this board have any idea whether it was a good pick or not for at least three years. You have to let the players develop. Conversely there are oftne players who start out hot as a rookie but never get beyond that point. All the people you mention could be in that boat, but you won't know that either for a couple more years.

Ah... did you ever think that Ralph won't pay even half of what Bill Cowler wants. No GM in the league will decide to fire the coach without the owners buy in and the owners willingness to eat the salary, and most important, willing to pay millions for a new coach if he wants a top level coach.

I see no evidence to support that. If that were true, players would let the Bills offer sit for a couple of weeks, to see if they can get an offer from another "high profile" team close to what the Bill's are offering, then only out of desperation sign with the Bill's if no offer comes. Dockery, Walker, Stroud signed within the first couple of days of the FA period, so they had no idea if they could have got a similar offer elsewhere. They signed because they wanted to be here and felt it was a good fit. Did they overpay for those guys, likely yes. However, there's a long list of about 31 other temas who also overpay for many players every year. The one excpetion I maybe would make is NE. The trouble the Bills have is other teams will spend tons of money so a couple of bad deals don't hurt them too much as they can just keep signing people figuring eventually they will get lucky. The Bills, per Ralph's guidelines can't/won't do that so they have to have close to a 90% succcess rate on FA signings to likely be able to compete with other teams who spend wildly. The odds of any team being right anywhere near 90% is slim. The reason many players are FA is because they aren't very good. Teams see their own players every day, they know who the good ones are, and those players never even sniff free agency. There are some exceptions where a team has a backup who is better than starters on many teams but can't get o nthe field with his current teams as there's a top 10 player ahead of him. I'll bet if someone analyized it, they'd find the best free agent's in value were backups, signed with their new team for a decent $$, now became a starter and a star. Players that start for a team and aren't re-signed, aren't as good as they look, but get this huge FA offer, sign it and never live up to their contract.

Say what you want about Belichik, but he is technically the best coach in the league. Yes he cheated and his legacy will be tainted for it, but he likely could just as easily have won without the cheating. He can figure out teams and players strengths and weaknesses better than anyone I've ever seen. The things he can get out of a team are amazing. 400 yards for Matt Cassell?? Radny Moss has been content for the most part.

And then what? So he'll get to go to another team as a free agent, and TE lost 8 games to possibly learn in. No matter what happens the end of this year, JP will be gone even if the Bills wanted him to come back as I'd say I'm about 95% certain, he'd never re-sign with the Bills regardless of what was offered. I will give him the utmost repsect for taking the high road and minimuly complaining for all he was jerked around. Even this season, he could have demanded a trade and/or forced the Bills to cut him as many athletes do. But he said fine, if you can't trade me, I'll honor the contract. For that he does deserve praise. and I wish him luck, but I aslo seriously doubt he will ever becoem a consistent starter. IMO he may come in a look good for a couple of games until teams adjust to him, then will be back to the old JP again, just wearing a different jersey. TE certainly looked terrible in the NE game. In the Jet's game his turnover resulted in 10 points for the Jets which take those 10 points away, the Bills are leading. Certainly without the points and if the Jets are behind, they'd be playing the end of the game differenly and may have still won, or maybe not, who knows. So if you want to blame TE for the turnover and the 10 points, that's fine, but then you also need to give him credit for the ten other points he did get in that game as he pretty much singlehandly was their entire offense. Special teams did nothing and excluding the one Int returned for the TD, there were no sacks that generated good field position, no running game, no other turnovers. TE did keep the chains moving, kept the defense rested, and moved the ball. While I wouldn't say he played well, I won't blame him for the lose either as he was their entire offense and that's alot to ask of a second year player.

Well now that you see the results, this poll is meaningless! For JP and TE to be the top vote getters, it just shows that the people who suck both of them off evey night also know their stats by heart as they got the most votes. Both got take every opportunity you can to prove you're right!!

Thats risky though after only seeing 8 games. Anderson looked great last year too, now look at him. Many people would make the same argument about TE right now too. Looking at one year of stats are OK if you know the person as sandwiched a couple other similar years around it, then they mean something.

And how do you know his throwing mechanics are off?? So it appears you know more than the Bills front office as obviously they never would have taken a QB with bad mechanics. Believe me, if you knew half as much as you think you know about football, you wouldn't be in this chat room, you'd be working for some team as a coach. It amazes me how many people here think they really know anything. All we are are a bunch of people with limited knowledge of the game but unfortunately chat rooms make everyone think they are much smarter than they really are. If I had a nickel for everyone who thinks they are smart, but really no little of anything, I'd be able to retire tomorrow. Coordinators figuring him out, yes certainly true. So TE has to step up to next level. Will it happen overnight, not likely, may take a season or more. Will it happen? Again no one know the answer for certain. He certainly advanced quickly to the point he's at, will he get to the next level, hopefully, but you never know. As I've said many times, calling him or any QB in the league a failure makes you look smart as there are many more failures than sucesses. Until they fix the line and re-establish a run game, he will get worse. There's no way you can expect a second year player to carry the entire offense on his shoulders, partically a limited offense.

While they played a weaker NFC conf, no one expected NY and Miami to improve as quickly whom they get to play twice so that about balances out playing the weaker NFC division. They also played a tougher AFC division last year in the north vs the west this year. They did get much better production last year from their draft picks than this year. Injuries have hurt this year about as muc has last year.

Well he could be a great, well respected leader, just not a strong player. Ouside the locker room, no one know the answer. you don't have ot be the best or one of the best players to be a captain. If you look at high performing players often they fail as coaches as they expect similar performance from others and they can't relate to lower level players. I realize being a captain is different, but not that different that it doesn't still apply here.

Minn probably would be a decent fit for him. Actually Ferotte wouldn't bea terrible #2 guy here either though he is getting a bit long in the tooth. But first off you need to give TE plenty of time to see if he is the real deal or not. while many people on this board think they know the answer to that, in reality no one on this board does know, because if they truely did, they'd be working for some NFL team as a coach. and it's real easy to say "I can see it, I know these things" as more often than not in hind sight, you'll be right as most QB's do fail. I wonder if Vegas takes bets on QB's being a sucess or failure. If they did, I'd bet every QB in the leauge will fail and I'm certain I'd come out ahead on al lthe bets combined.

Wasn't TE the guy playing QB for those 5 wins?? So now you want to start making changes. you already stated he's ruined the season, so then you may as well leave TE in, no sence ruining a good thing!

Basee o nthe shortage of QB's i nthe NFL you may be right. But once he plays maybe 10 games or so, he likely will look the same. Masybe if he were to sign wit ha really great tema and is asked to do very little, he may look better.

I thought JP played very well for a backup agaisnt Az. But he also showed no improvement and no reason to expect improvment. The Bills didn't lose because of JP, but he did show he's still the same JP

You're right, in TE's 2nd year, he doesn't look any better than JP did after 4 years! I argued in 2005 and 2005 that JP, nmeeded more time to develop and I'll make the same argument now for TE. The problem with JP was he never did improve. You could be right about TE, odds are in your favor as there are way more flops at QB than successes. But he needs more than 2 seasons to answer that.

I agree he probably does have more physical talent, but that hardly makes a good GB. JP likely has more physical talent than Tom Brady too. More heart, no one knows the answer to that one including you! You compare 2006 because in your mind there is something magical about them being the same age so that means something. What relavance that has, I have no idea other than it means he must have joined the Bills at an earlier age than TE. What was JP's second year compared to this year? 8 TD's /8 int played 9 games. The problem with JP is he wasn't improving. Last year prior to him getting hurt he had 97 yards and 154 yards in two games 0 TD, 1 int 6 sacks. I don't recall alot about early last seaosn, but I think by the second game people we calling for JP to be benched. And BTW this is coming from a JP supporter. I'll make the same argument for him as I make now for TE, you need to give the person time. The problem with JP was time didn't help him get better. You could be right about TE, odds are in your favor as there are way more flops at QB than successes. But he needs more than 2 seasons to answer that. Not counting his rookie year JP had three years and showed nothing.. Granted he was jerked around, but there was a reason for it, he was playing terrible. If he were getting 200 yards per game, even meathead wouldn't have yanked him. In the last 2 games he started in early 2005 before getting yanked, he threw for 75 yards in each game and had a rating in the low 30's. So tell me which of TE's games have been anywhere near that poor? In one game that year he had more than 200 yards and that was in the Miami game where he had the three TD's to Evans. Other than that, nothing and he started the 2007 series looking about the same. He had one terrific game last year angaisnt Cinny, then looked terrible again afterwards. You compare him to Eli in 2006, well Eli did have a very good 2007 where as JP again was terrible in the 9 games he did play. Finally what possible good could be gained from giving JP "one last shot" as you suggest? What if he lights it up for the rest of the year? That would be great for him as he'd likely get a decent contract as a free agent, but do you honestly believe he's sign with the Bills after all that's happened? So if he playes great the next two games, do you offer him a 5 year contract then, because you know if he plays out the contract, he's gone. Would you give him a big contract after seeing him play two games as that would likely be the only chance you'd have of signing him and even then I think JP would say no, I'll take my chances playing out the year.