BillsFanForever19

There's a sliding scale for the cost of Draft Day Trades depending on the talent pool available. The 2022 Draft was not a great Draft. So prices were cheaper. There's also a far cry difference between trading 32, 34, and 66 for 12 and 46 and trading 33, 60, and 95 for 9 - even if that wasn't a great trade to begin with. Which is what the trade would have to be because your idea of giving 28 and giving up Bishop and Carter isn't possible. We were only able to get Carter because we traded down from 28. With 28, the best we could have offered to go along with it was 60 and a 4th. The Bears weren't giving up Odunze, even in this "what if" scenario. They ran that card up to the podium like their shoes were on fire.

I disagree with this. Like you said, if they felt Thomas was much better, they could have easily moved up and gotten him. If Beane is to be believed, he didn't even try to move up. And if guys like Worthy and Legette were people they wanted more than Coleman - they wouldn't have traded out of 28 and 32. Especially to teams they knew were taking a WR. I agree they had a number of guys they liked an equal amount, which is why they moved down twice. But I don't believe for a second that Coleman "was not a guy they really wanted to had to have". I didn't get that feeling watching the interview and I certainly didn't get that feeling with the moves he made. You're projecting your dislike of the pick here.

This is correct. And of those 20-something% of snaps that weren't lined up at Slot, more than half came out of the Backfield. He is NOT a Boundary WR. Which is why we Drafted Keon Coleman, ignored slot WR's in the Draft, and then signed MVS and Claypool.

Samuel, Coleman, Kincaid, Shakir, Cook, MVS Is there a Top 10 veteran WR in there? No. But 22 teams in the NFL don't have one of those. And while we don't have a Top 10 guy, we have a wide spread of talented players in the Offensive firepower core that spreads larger than most teams. If you take the production (or lackthereof) from Diggs and Davis into account from mid season until the end - it's quite possible, if not likely, we're going to get more out of the additions of Coleman, Samuel, and MVS than we did them, even if they don't have the name Star power. You also shouldn't forget about Kincaid. He's a Tight End almost as much as Von Miller is a LB. He lines up standing off the line 90% of the time as a WR. True, it's inside. And on the Outside, we're hoping we nailed the Coleman pick and he's that guy. But many teams #1 options come from Inside. And in Kincaid and Shakir, they want to give them more than they did last year and see if they grow more. Add in Samuel, also on the Inside, out of the Backfield, in motion, and occasionally Outside - and you've got as deep of an Inside WR talent roster as anyone. Ultimately, do I wish we had more on the Outside than Coleman, MVS, and Hollins? Yes. But we simply don't have the means to do it. The cost is too great. You DO take on the Cap Hit of a traded player (case in point, even after restructuring and massaging Diggs' deal, he still accounts for a 6m cap hit in Houston), you just don't take on the bonus money or dead cap - which lowers it a bit. But of the guys you want (that actually may be available), the cap hit's are SO massive. We have to take on the full hit before we can restructure it. And we simply can't after everything we've already done and the limited amount of moves we have left. Which is why we did what we did. We lost 4 WR's. We brought in 5. We drafted Keon Coleman and signed Curtis Samuel, MVS, Mack Hollins, and Chase Claypool. Coleman, Shakir, Samuel, MVS, and Hollins are locked in. As it is, Shorter, Claypool, Hamler, and the rest of the field are all going to be cut - save for one. This year is about evaluating Coleman, Shakir, and Kincaid in their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd years and seeing what our long term investment into Samuel yields with Josh. Adding someone else to this field pushes some of these guys down to where reps are extremely limited. And you could be burying a Superstar. Next year's crop of FA WR's is strong and we have even more Draft Capital than we did last year. They'll see where they're at with these guys now. If they're all truly HIM, we won't do much else next year. And if they aren't who Beane thinks they are, they'll get a stud next year. Denial is a good way to put your posts past the MVS signing. Would it be great to have one of those guys? Of course. But that ship sailed long before the MVS signing - which is why the MVS signing happened.

I've said this a few times already, but Hamler is an extreme long shot. I see him as a guy who either shows a little something and his ceiling is the Practice Squad or he shows poorly and is outright cut. He's this year's Andy Isabella. A 2nd Round bust who failed to impress in his 2nd chance in Indianapolis. He's on his 3rd team in less than a year. Regardless of how he looks playing with Trubisky and Buechele in the 3rd and 4th Quarters of Pre-Season games, it's not going to matter - as it didn't for Isabella. Because we know if we release him, the 3rd team to do so in a year, he's not going to be put immediately on someone elses 53 to start the season. Every year, fans play the "there's no way we can get (so and so) back" and every year we do. As for who sticks - Keon Coleman Curtis Samuel Khalil Shakir Marquez Valdes-Scantling Mack Hollins Justin Shorter or Chase Claypool

It won't be Toohill, it will be Smoot. I feel like most people on this board didn't notice his signing, as it came at the same time as Chase Claypool and Deion Jones. He's a much more productive and solid player than Toohill and signed for more money, including some guaranteed money (as opposed to Toohill) and a void year added.

Drafting Javon Solomon and signing Dawuane Smoot to some guaranteed money Post Draft, after re-signing AJ Epenesa and signing Casey Toohill - I don't see it. We lost two guys and brought in 3 already, after retaining Epenesa. I don't see us keeping more than 5 DE's. Groot, Miller, and Epenesa (who got a pay raise, denoting a larger role) are 100% safe. Floyd was only brought in bc of Von being in the shape he was last season. With Miller having a full year and a full offseason away from the injury and Epenesa having taken a step forward (and being paid for it) - they feel they've got the side opposite Groot covered. I don't see Solomon getting cut where he was Drafted (and he was underdrafted where we took him). And I don't see Smoot being cut either, as his 2.5m contract with 1.75m guaranteed (with a void year added) is more than we usually pay for the 4th or 5th DE - so there's your 5. Smoot and Solomon will replace Epenesa and Shaq's roles last year. As it is, guys like Toohill and Jonathan are on the outside looking in. The one spot I see us adding to is Cornerback. Douglas replaced White and Hardy replaces Neal. But we've done nothing to replace Dane Jackson on the Outside. And with Benford being hurt a lot and Elam still a massive question mark, I don't see us rolling with just Ja'Marcus Ingram or a UDFA beyond them to replace Dane's spot on the 53.

Another thread about Troy Franklin and bemoaning us only taking Coleman in the Draft. Yay! If their talent were "undeniable" - Mitchell wouldn't have lasted until 52 and Troy Franklin all the way until Round 4. Character flaws or not. And the league has been littered with incredibly talented college prospects that flamed out because their head wasn't screwed on straight. Troy Franklin had as bad of a Pre-Draft process as I've ever seen. I don't think we need to get into the abysmal Combine - that he strangely decided to stick to at his Pro Day. But then he absolutely BOMBED when it came to meeting with teams as well. Reportedly leading them to believe he only played Football as a means to get money and didn't really seem to care for the game. Beyond that, although you seem to deny it, I saw a lot of flaws in his game tapes beyond the highlights. EVERY team in the league passed on him multiple times. Some teams 4 times or more. He simply was NOT the prospect you thought he was. AD Mitchell bombed the interviews even worse. Reportedly he seemed downright annoyed by the whole interview process and like he didn't even want to be there. Combined with his tape of taking off plays where the ball wasn't going his way and the reports of how he treats (or doesn't treat) his diabetes, how he acts when his blood sugar is low, and that you'd pretty much have to babysit him, against his wishes - I'd say the character concerns were extremely valid and explains his falling. College game tape isn't the be all, end all. Talent means nothing if you don't have your head screwed on straight. And there was a lot of things that led teams to think both had big time bust potential. In which case, you've given Josh nothing - as opposed to the idea around here that these guys were "can't miss" talents that immediately help him.

Yeah, there's definitely no difference between an Olympic Gold Medal Winning, 2 Time NCAA Heavyweight National Champion Wrestler, to literally any Bills fan 🙄

I don't see him as an Edge. His natural gifts are more suited for Defensive Tackle. Which is why 265 is a little light. But it wouldn't take much to put a little on for 3 Tech.

It's incredibly intriguing. He'd have to dedicate himself to the game and the nuances of the position and would undoubtedly be a multi-year project. But as you said, Wrestling translates well into Football, especially Defensive Tackle. And this isn't just *some* wrestler - this is THE Heavyweight Wrestler in the United States - maybe the world. The NFL, UFC, and WWE all came calling for him with no experience in any form of either. That speaks to the kind of athlete he is. These kind of projects rarely yield success. But if we're going to try one, Steveson is the kind of Premier athlete I'd take a chance on. He wasn't signed by us. It was just a Rookie Minicamp tryout. LB Joe Andreeseen from UB was the only player from the tryouts to get a contract.

I'd think Defensive Tackle. He looks to have the body for it. Probably put on a few more pounds. Obviously, being a Gold Medalist Heavyweight, he's incredibly athletic. He's also SURPRISINGLY agile.

They didn't sign him. They just brought him in for a look and a tryout in Rookie Minicamp.

Yeah, I think he just didn't have the charisma and showmanship to translate like they wanted. And when you have the same credentials and took the same route as Kurt Angle, you're always going to be compared to that. And he just couldn't hold a candle to Angle, who was INCREDIBLY entertaining.

McDermott: You know Gable, I wrestled in High School and College. Steveson: Oh yeah? That's cool. I was a 2-Time Heavyweight Champion of the entire NCAA and transferred that into a Gold Medal at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. How'd you do? McDermott: I, uh..... I like Wrestling. Steveson: Yeah, I hear you like your Football players with a Wrestling background and try them out on the mat. Want to roll around a bit? McDermott: You know... I would. But my back is really acting up today. Steveson: Some other time then? McDermott: Yeah...

The Eagles were able to turn one of these type of guys into a high end Left Tackle for them. Personally, I think it's progressive and smart to look at pure athletes from other sports transitioning to Football. There's no risk and you never know what you'll find. Smart teams leave no stone unturned.

Greatest promo ever. Steveson is the modern day Kurt Angle. Just didn't have the charisma to make the transition into WWE like Kurt did. Hadn't even thought of the McDermott angle. Dude loves his Wrestlers and Stevenson has been the KING of American Amateur Wrestling. McDermott's probably a big Steveson simp.

https://www.si.com/college/minnesota/gophers-football/gophers-wrestling-superstar-gable-steveson-visits-buffalo-bills-01hy0r3jdqrt Gable Steveson is an Olympic gold medal-winning wrestler (2021 Tokyo), three-time Big Ten heavyweight champion and two-time NCAA heavyweight national champion. Following the Olympics, he had overtures from UFC, the NFL (we actually looked into him then too), and the WWE. He ended up signing with the WWE and had a couple moments there before surprisingly being released a month ago. As far as athletes from other sports go, he'd definitely be the most decorated of all the guys we tried and the most athletic. Would be a cool Training Camp player.

... you're a Kicker.

My prediction is the same for the most part. Except for at a couple spots: WR: I'm torn on WR6. But I'm pretty positive it won't be Hamler. He's this year's Isabella. A guy from the 2nd who busted off his Drafted team and is now on his 3rd team in less than a year. Even if he performs well late in Pre-Season games with Trubisky/Buechele, that's not going to be enough that a team is going to put him on their 53, cold, to start the season (as it wasn't with Isabella). Knowing we can easily get him back on the Practice Squad if we cut him, makes him an easy cut. As for who WR6 will be, my guess is either Justin Shorter or Chase Claypool. Wild Card being Quintez Cephus. He produced well before only being cut for Gambling and probably had other options after reinstatement. All things equal, it would be Shorter, being a Draft investment and young Draftees who never got a shot are usually the ones who get a look from other teams. If he doesn't show anything, Claypool or Cephus. CB: I don't think Lovely makes it. I think we'll be bringing in a veteran FA CB when White's money comes in a couple weeks. Douglas replaced White and Hardy replaced Neal. But we did nothing to replace Dane Jackson. And with Benford's injury issues and Elam's shaky development, I don't see us relying only on UDFA's and PS guys for the other perimeter spot on the 53. Gilliam is safer than he ever has been. Special Teams experience? Gilliam is one of our core STer's. And we've moved on from a number of those already. They're going to want to keep some continuity there.

You'd lose your entire 401k.

It's not *impossible*. But I see it as a very big longshot. He's this year's Isabella, almost to a T. A former 2nd Round Pick that busted off his Drafted team. Now we're his 3rd team in less than a year. If we're the 3rd team to let him walk in under a year, including the team that spent a 2nd for him and gave up on him, it's kind of the kiss of death. We know that the odds of him being signed to another teams 53 after that is pretty low - regardless of how he looks in the 3rd and 4th Quarters of Pre-Season games with Mitch Trubisky and Shane Buechele. Just like Isabella, who looked pretty darn good in the Pre-Season last year - Hamler has a stink on him that doesn't come off with one good Pre-Season in garbage time. I think they'll view other guys as more likely to not make it to the Practice Squad if cut than him. And ultimately, if they thought much of him - they wouldn't have brought in SIX WR's this offseason, after acquiring him. They probably wouldn't have bothered with Claypool and/or Cephus if they had any sort of plans for him.

Hollins and MVS will stick. I see it as either Shorter or Claypool sticking for the final spot. Shorter has the edge as a Draft Investment, if all things are equal. Everyone else is a very long shot with the Practice Squad as their most likely ceiling.

*sigh* We do this every year. This time we seem to have gotten a jump on it. Usually this thread gets made around the 53 cutdown date when there's some plucky UDFA or Futures underdog that the fanbase has fallen in love with and wants to find a way to squeeze them on the roster. He's an important Special Teamer, serves as an extra blocker on the field, while also providing the occasional catch out of the Backfield, and has positional versatility as an extra TE. Allowing us to keep only 3 on the 53, when we kept 4 on the 53 before he was here. He provides all of this for a meager salary. He's loved by the team and loved by the coaches. He's even more important this year after walking away from a number of core Special Teamers. His spot on the 53 is safe.

It's pretty clear this season is about evaluating the development of Dalton Kincaid in Year 2, Khalil Shakir in Year 3, Keon Coleman in his Rookie year - playing along with the long term addition of Curtis Samuel. They've surrounded them with a number of guys who have shown differing levels of production on other teams with other QB's and/or a skill profile that at least gave them a high Draft pedigree in MVS, Mack Hollins, Chase Claypool, Quintez Cephus, Justin Shorter, KJ Hamler, and Andy Isabella. 7 players (plus 4 other UDFA's/Futures) playing for 3 positions. If you can't afford high end quality, bring in quantity and find the best performing from that field. I much prefer the concept of bringing in a bunch of lower to mid level guys and choosing the best from the field as opposed to last year of just bringing in Harty and Sherfield and hoping for the best. After this season, they'll have an idea as to what levels Coleman, Kincaid, Shakir, and Samuel are at with Josh and the Offense and circumvent accordingly in FA and the Draft.