Beck Water

Interesting

In the sense that Saleh is talking about, all NFL teams try to do it. They subscribe to services like PFF that track plays called or defenses used by down and distance and personnel on the field. They look for tendencies and patterns. They look for tells in the cadence and the movement of the QB's hands - early on, Peyton Manning called out a "tell" he spotted with Josh Allen and told him during a Manningcast to correct it. And yes, the Chiefs have done this to the Bills. Probably the most effective was the 2020 playoff game, where the Chiefs had a whole season of empty stadium play calls to analyze and they did it. What Saleh is saying is that McVay's coaching tree is very successful, more successful than most, and the Jags among them. He's not saying that the Jags or anyone are doing what the Cheatriots did, where they were videotaping practices, intercepting radio feeds, and recording opponents sidelines.

Also, as far as I can tell, Spencer Rattler now is nothing like Josh Allen was then.

I went through the play by play. Yes, they were down 38-6 by halftime. @SoCal Deek pointed out that many metrics were relatively close between the teams: 21 1D for NOR vs 22 for SEA; 218 pass yards vs 233 pass yards; 79 rush yards vs 87 rush yards So clearly, NO was moving the ball, and especially, they had 3 long drives in the 1st half. That was my point: NOR was moving the ball. A major difference in the game was a couple of ST miscues (punt return TD for SEA, blocked punt for SEA) that led to early scores (also a 60 yd kickoff return) Another major difference was NOR just not being able to punch it in on those 3 long drives. They settled for 2 FG and had a missed FG (which of course, gave SEA another excellent field position). While SEA, as you note, did punch it in.

"When and IF"??

A propos of a post I made answering a Q what happened with SEA? NO was moving the ball and accumulating a lot of yards. They got pig-piled by SEA due to a couple of early ST miscues (PR for TD, blocked punt) So they're still an NFL team.

https://www.wivb.com/news/investigates/from-lost-to-found-how-benjis-case-exposed-a-bizarre-scandal/

How does the fact that the penalty isn't called impact whether or not it's a rules violation? And if it's a deliberate rules violation (not inadvertant), what do you call it? Just ducky? In the case of KC, it was coordinated and deliberate. Cheating. In the case of the Eagles coordinated and deliberate false starting, it's also Cheating. Do you guys think a theft that isn't reported or charged, somehow isn't a crime or something? I think I'd be beating a dead horse to continue here, but Wow.

I didn't, but this is actually a pretty great case study in box score reading. (by the way, the box scores on pro football reference are currently AFU) Bottom line: ST miscues by NOR, giving up field position, and failing to punch the ball into the endzone when they had the chance. Field position: 1st possession: NOR tried to be Dan Campbell-style aggressive, going for it on 4th down on their first drive. Result: SEA ball at SEA 45. TD in 6 plays. ST was big: 2nd possession: punt from their own 29 after 3 and out, SEA returned the punt for a TD 3rd possession: punt from their own 30, SEA blocks and recovers the ball on the 11 yd line, punches it in in 2 plays At that point it was 21-0 and they weren't out of the 1st Q. And next possession started with a 60 yd KR. NOR had 3 nice, long sustained drives in the 1st half: 65, 42, and 69 yds and came away with 6 points total (2 FG and a missed FG) 1st FG was after 1st and 10 from the SEA 15 2nd attempted (NG) FG from SEA 33, so SEA got the ball at the 42 yd line 3rd FG 1st and 10 from the SEA 20, but only 13 seconds in the half. If they'd have managed to punch those drives in, could have been a much closer game.

Dude, you're funny. Violating rules is, in fact, a form of cheating. The fact that it's taking place on many plays in the hope the refs don't call it, doesn't change that fact. The fact that it's motivated by hoping to gain an advantage doesn't make it not cheating, either. That's the motivation for most cheating: trying to gain some advantage in the belief that it's likely to go undetected or unpunished. No argument there. Actually, it's more his constant and continuous "illegal formation" positioning that gets to me. And yes, I would say that's also cheating.

In somewhat defense of Daboll, he had some awful teams to work with as OC. Brady Quinn and Derek Anderson under Eric Mangini with the Browns - ugh. 2011 with Matt Moore on the Dolphins, he managed a decent offense. 2012 Chiefs, he had Matt "Noodle Arm" Cassel who thought his excrement had no odor and the team as a whole has all kinds of stories about putting the dys in dysfunctional under Scott Pioli. There's a reason Romeo Crennel and Eric Mangini haven't gotten head coaching opportunities since (though I guess Crennel did with Houston in 2020). I've had people argue with this POV, but I think Daboll got a bit full of himself in Buffalo with Allen. I think he got to believing he could mold any QB with an arm and some running ability (like Daniel Jones) into Josh Allen. Allen could handle Daboll's form of coaching; not every player can. Daboll in Buffalo managed to have a good offense (with some spectacular failures like the Jags loss and the season opener loss to Pittsburgh) even though he seemingly said "Lalala" with his fingers in his ears any time McDermott told him that the Bills needed a competent run game. Then, when Daboll went to the Giants and had success his first year 2022, it appears his ego just exploded. There's a saying "nothing fails like success" and I think winning COTY in 2022 led to a feeling of entitlement. Some references to back up the above: https://sports.yahoo.com/ms-silver_colt_mccoy_browns_brian_daboll_112411.html https://giantswire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/giants/2024/06/28/ex-new-york-giants-coach-on-brian-daboll-we-were-all-trying-to-get-out/79593871007/ (This is about 2023) I wish Jaxon Dart the best. Do you think Wilson was the sum total of the Giants offensive struggles?

In other news, Water is Wet. It's violating an NFL rule. It's a penalty by rule. I guess it depends on if you want to call violating a rule cheating or not. You do you, but it is against the rules. Yes.

I think you should get the ban-hammer for this thread topic. 20-0 Baby!

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that Detroit confused Lamar very successfully with delayed rushers (or keeping multiple "spys" Am I wrong that the Ravens got away from the rush? Only 85 yds on the ground.....were the Lions just crowding the box all night to bait the Poe-birds into passing, then smothering Lamar? 4 rushing 1st downs (all 4 in the 1st half) 19 rushing plays (11 in the first half, only 8 rush plays in the 2nd half) 85 yds on the ground (66 of them in the first half - only 9 rush yards in the entire 2nd half, WAT?) Looking at it ...the Lions were just smothering the Ravens rush offense in the 2nd half. 2 yds, 4 yds, 3 yds, 3 yds, 3 yds...several sacks near or at the LOS that may have been LJax rush attempts. Wow.

There were a lot of habits Josh had, and a number of habits he apparently didn't have, when Daboll was here. We'll see what happens with Daniel Jones in Indy, but from early returns one does kinda got to wonder if you have a point and Josh developed to some extent, "in spite of", instead of "because of"

But isn't it a bit strange to attribute him being the "new shiny object" in his 6th season, to not having lived up to his potential before, when he actually performed (arguably) better in this first 3 games of 2023?

You could watch their D visibly wilt after Wilson's 2nd interception. They were on the KC 23, they should have at least come away with a FG and gone into halftime with a 9-6 lead I think there's more to it. I think when Wilson was younger, he took more coaching. He also had players to match his skillset. I think towards the end of his time with Seattle, he had become entitled and felt he was above both his teammates AND hard coaching. Remember "I'm the best QB in the league right now" and "Let Russ Cook"?

It's. Week. 4. Herbert had more passing yards (939) and as many passing TDs (6) in the first 3 games of 2023, plus fewer sacks and no INT

No he doesn't. It's before the trading deadline and he's completed 6 seasons in the NFL

Since when is Herbert the new shiny object? This is his 6th year in the league. We're going into week 4, plenty of season to play out good or bad. Their D was excellent. But it starts with being assignment sound.

Now That was a very good football game. The Lions D put on a Clinic for the importance of Mind Your Gap and how to tackle, and it won for them in the end.

I maintain that Brian Daboll has naughty pictures of John Mara There's also the fact that Daniel Jones looks like a totally different QB so far in Indy. He looks natural, at ease, poised, and confident. Time will tell.

I think @Simon would smite that I SMH over the decision to acquire Wilson after last year on the Steelers. Course, I SMH over the Steelers decision to acquire Wilson for last season AND the Steelers decision to hang their hopes on Rodgers. So we'll see.

That's how I heard it. Josh was talking about grass vs turf and said he has a couple turf burns on his legs that make him really like grass. Then he turned to the double entendre about McAfee (well known for his marijuana use as a player and as a podcast host) liking grass and McAfee ack'd it saying he was in a medical only state but they'd get a card somehow.