FireChans

You must be confusing me with someone far more dramatic There’s exactly zero non-all time great QB’s that have won 3 or more Superbowls.

Monken was the OC on back to back national Champion Georgia…. What was Carolina’s offensive DVOA in 2021? You know, the year he got fired? More “players improving” talk. I think we all know what this means. “Lamar in year two in Monken’s system is bound to get better, he’s a year older and more experienced, he’s just entering his prime” Yawn. More players improving talk. Even brought out the jugs machine. The Bills are apparently the only team that has one. Ravens must have ran out of cash building the Ray Lewis statue. Yes, Mack Hollins has replaced our WR4 role. We don’t have a WR2. So it’s not better, yet. I concede it very well could be after the draft. I’m fairly confident Kincaid will be better. I’m not sure Knox will be better. Morris is a nothing player. But it’s still player improving talk. If Edwards was close to as good as McGovern, he probably would’ve competed for the job. Instead, he took backup money here after starting in LA. He’s clearly not. Dawkins is another year older and while he had a great year last year, he has been kinda up and downish (still a very quality LT). Spencer Brown had the best year of his career last year, hopefully he duplicates it but I’m not expecting him to suddenly be the best RT in football. Torrence we already addressed. Again, player improvement talk. Yes, I addressed the additions/losses to the group because that’s usually how you evaluate teams in the NFL. When you lose a starter and shuffle two positions, that’s what you talk about. AGAIN, every team has rookies or young OL players they expect to be better next year. Every team can say this. Um, you’re the one arguing that Von needed two years to return to form. Do we even have medicals on Milano? We know there was a fracture but I thought there was something flittering around about ligament/knee damage. I thought same to better was cautiously optimistic, personally. Seriously. I get that you have this idea in your head that the off-season magically turns players into different players than they’ve been their whole careers, but it’s just not true. Douglas is an above average starter in the NFL. He played really good last year. I expect him to be really good this year. I don’t think he’s coming into the season at 30 years old turning up another level because of…. Babich teaching him cover 3 zone concepts in the Bills training facility for 2 weeks. I tend to agree about McD making it work with CB’s but part of that was having an All Pro S duo. It’s a lot easier to hide Levi Wallace or EJ Gaines when you have Tre, Poyer and Hyde on the backend as well. He also hasn’t made Elam work yet, which happens. Sometimes players just suck. Like Elam. I think Rapp is fine. Damar Hamlin was a football disaster in 2022 so McD didn’t exactly make chicken salad with him in the past. This position group is worse, everyone agrees. So moving on. Neal was, again, a notable departure. Everyone else is the same. In your world, that means it’s better. In reality, it doesn’t. Bass was shaky last year. There was not, IIRC, any word on if he was dealing with an injury. Maybe he was. Maybe he just sucks now. Dan Carpenter sucked, then had an excellent run, then sucked. It happens. Like I emphasized before, you think “off-season = better player.” Tyrod gets another off-season with Greg Roman, he’s sure to improve. Oh wait, no. We all can be wrong sometimes, but you should try to learn from those mistakes.

There’s a lot more that goes into being a great QB than just being a great passer. Rodgers is a terrible leader. He’s closer to Jay Cutler IRT leadership with better arm talent and prefers to protect his ungodly TD/INT ratio over winning football games. I guess I shouldn’t be so harsh to our future VP.

Sure. COACHING - questionable. I like Joe Brady, but he was an abject failure before on admittedly really bad Panthers teams. I think with this team he has a chance to fix his earlier mistakes. No opinion on the new hires for position coaches, they come and go in the NFL. As far as new DC, Babich has never called plays, right? That has just as much chance of failure as it does success. We could very easily see the “McD took over playcalling duties” week 4 article. QB - the same. Josh is still Josh. Trubisky over Kyle Allen is like being covered in ***** but having clean shoes. RB - the same. James Cook and Ty Johnson. WR - pending draft. I like the Curtis Samuel signing a lot, but if the Bills don’t get a good trait WR in the draft, there’s still a gaping hole in the core. I was a big Davis critic, but he is an NFL boundary WR. We don’t have one on the roster currently. TE - SAME TO BETTER. Kincaid, Knox and Quinton Morris. Maybe Brady uses them to be more productive, and Kincaid hopefully continues to improve. OL - worse. Downgrade at LG, switched our FA acquisition LG to C where he never really played in the NFL. The Cowboys shuffled their IOL a lot when he was there and he never stuck at center. I’m fairly confident he won’t be as good of a C as Morse. How much that matters is a different question. DL - same to worse. Von another year older. Daquan another year older. AJE back. The JAGs will continue to JAG. LB - same to better. Healthy Milano, healthy Bernard in year two of the green dot. Dodson was fine but I don’t think he’s gonna be missed. CB - same to worse. Douglas, Benford, TJ are penciled into the big three, but depth is a major loss with Dane and Tre gone. Has Benford ever played a full season? We are a twisted ankle from Elam starting. Yikes. S - worse. This is kinda obvious. Micah and Poyer are shells of their former selves and we’re still much better than the stuff they have now. Maybe McD can make lightning strike again and turn some JAGs into All-Pros again. ST - worse. I hate ST anyway, but Siran Neal was good at it. So worse, even though I don’t care.

That’s probably true. like those sad Dolphins fans that think Marino is equal if not better than those guys as well.

I think we all put a little weight on it. Like you said, it doesn’t make Dilfer better than Marino but for the upper echelon of the upper echelon, it does matter, even if it’s just a little bit. QB rankings are always so fun to talk about. I’m like a moth to the flame, what can I say?

Unironically, he might be, yes. Rodgers has the regular season. Zero question. Aikman was absolutely clutch in the postseason and played much better in the postseason than his mediocre regular seasons. Hard to find a great stat to encapsulate this via different eras, but Rodgers passer rating dropped 2 points from regular season to postseason play. Aikman’s went up by 7. I kinda lean towards Aikman being an Eli type QB who got hot but I think there’s an argument there. Aikman is certainly far better than a lot of guys in his era, including Kelly.

I don’t believe that you believe that. Rank these 3 QB’s. Brady, Mahomes, Marino.

Kelly waited a bit longer to choke. 2 TD’s and 7 picks in four Superbowls? Woof.

This may surprise you, but that wasn’t the Super Bowl. Agreed that was a bad loss and Allen deserves little heat for it. Brady and Mahomes have had bad playoff losses and still seem to manage.

I wonder if TBD existed with the 4 straight SB team, folks would be posting in year 5 that Kelly is the best QB in football and he didn’t need to work on anything. Hell, maybe a lot of folks did feel that way.

I’m not saying Allen isn’t a franchise QB. I’m not saying he’s not a HoF QB. Hell, I think Allen is WAY better than Kelly, and he has less playoff accomplishments. I’m saying until he wins a Super Bowl, he’s not going to be mentioned alongside Brady, Mahomes, Manning etc. And those guys winning multiple, some with multiple teams, is what separates themselves from Marino and Tarkenton and Allen. That’s it.

Patrick Mahomes is already a better QB than Danny boy. Sure, a guy like Nick Foles isn’t better than Josh Allen because he has a ring. That’s obvious. No one is arguing that.

Marino might be one of the best QB’s ever to never win. But that’s a big asterisk and a reason why no one says, “it’s him and Brady as the two GOAT QBs.” Because that’s laughable.

Choker, didn’t watch, choker, choker. or, alternatively, not as good as the other all time greats x 4. Unsurprisingly, part of approaching the best ever is playing your best in the biggest moments.

That’s true. Somehow the all time great QB’s seem to win a bunch for their teams.

See above.

https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=what+active+qb+has+the+most+superbowls

I think that Josh Allen stopped doing as much in the off-season after 2021. He believed, after that moment, that the difference between him and Mahomes was a coinflip. Unfortunately, the gulf has only grown since then.

Yeah, I’d like to prevent my QB from getting injured so really it’s irrelevant HOW he got injured. It’s very simple, less hits = less injuries. We have seen multiple seasons where Allen is banged up for a portion of the year because of an injury, notably the UCL most recently. That includes OL investment success, which I will give Beane kudos for doing a generally decent job, with 2020 and 2023 having pretty strong OL play. That also includes receiving talent investment. Which he gets far worse grades. There is absolutely a fine line between neutering what makes him special and using his gifts too much. I totally get that Allen is gonna be Allen and a lot of the hits he takes is on him. And I totally get that he’s not safe in the pocket either, because his UCL was a pocket injury. But a good way to lessen his hits, without taking away his ability, is to surround him with good receiving talent so there’s a better chance there’s an open receiver to throw to. So he doesn’t feel like he has to run through a linebackers chest to get a crucial first down in November against a team that’s going to finish 6-11. We know that when Allen is backed into a corner and no one is open, he’s gonna lay it all out there. That’s fine. In February, go for it. Surround Allen with a better group than 2020 and his TOs will drop and his head smashing plays will also drop. He has shown he can do that. Allen had 4 broken tackles in 2020. He had 12 in 2021. 9 last year. That’s an imperfect stat, but I’d like to see that number go back down instead of up.

the most telling thing of all is that @BADOLBILZ@HappyDays @GunnerBill you and I can disagree on a trillion different topics, and yet have all agreed for years that the lack of investment in WR is brutal. Beane needs a small council. We are approaching “Whaley being afraid to draft a QB” status. I wonder if that’s gonna change in the coming years. Obviously, when most teams are targeting to have 3 or more decent wideouts, there’s a bit of a numbers game of mid to late rounders filling those roles. But similar to how late first/early second graded QB’s are taken high in the first, I wonder if we’ll see some (reasonable) value inflation. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a biggest number of WR’s drafted in the first 60 picks ever, personally. When the alternative is paying decent pros like Jeudy $60M, it just makes sense.

I know that Beane wasn’t the GM. But it was very clear they did not surround him with a lot of help on the offensive side. You’d think a guy who witnessed that first-hand would think, “hey, when I’m running my own team, and I get a franchise QB, I don’t want him running around in circles trying to do carry the entire offense every game.” But he clearly didn’t. So why should we expect he is laser focused on WR help for Josh now? And that’s all well and good that you think that Cam’s career decline can be pinpointed to one singular injury. All I know is if I have a franchise QB, the guy I rely on to keep my job and keep my team in SB contention year after year, I want him putting himself in harm’s way the least amount possible.

That's my issue with the, "Beane has to have learned his lesson, he will definitely take 1-2 WR's this draft," take. We have no proof that he learned his lesson from Carolina. Why would he learn his lesson from Gabe Davis leaving in FA? Running their athletic QB into the ground and ending their career 3-4 years before it should've by surrounding him with bargain bin bums seems to be their MO. They didn't draft Kelvin Benjamin until after they lost their old #1WR. They are not proactive at the position.

The Pats had a worse point differential by about 50 compared to the Jets. With the GOAT HC.

Agreed, but it's still using draft capital. Maybe with an asterisk. Either way its far too low. I'd like to think Beane has learned his lesson, but he was a part of the FO that subjected Cam Newton to trash targets for 5 years, so I don't know.