WideNine

Interesting how one of the analyst felt no one was beating KC, I think that was the knee-jerk reaction we all had after KC played with us like a chew toy, but Tampa did. They were able to disrupt timing and pressure with their front four which took away the timing KC relies on to create those shallow and middle zone windows or rubs in man that they were so effective at leveraging against us. That and although they kept the two deep safety look they jammed and stuck to Kelce with a lot of man. That is my initial take, but would like to see them break down what Tampa did and why it worked so well. Some was certainly their personnel, but some was scheme taking away guys like Hill.

Yep. I don't put a lot of stock in strength of schedule because that was last year. With the cap, free agency, and coaches moving around many of the teams have dramatic swings in competitiveness. Far fewer have stable organizations with more predictable outcomes. I am also referring to predictably terrible too. Fans and owners are more quick to pull the plug on successive years of fail.

Congrats on the new addition

He is also 22 and still pretty young so Tampa needs to stay patient - some day he will play up to his potential 😈 Edmunds is an anomaly to me. His stats seem to be on par with many LBs so are we just more focused on his negative plays? My eyes say he is often out of position, rarely tackles for a loss or breaks up passes, had a poor year, and is not much of a game changer on the field; However, how much the injuries and shoddy d-line play this year factored into the slip in his play and how he was being used I can't say. He played through a painful injury this year and the guys in front of him struggled, so I think it is fair to see if he turns his play around next year. PFF graded Edmunds at 59.4 in 2019, and worse this year at 47.9. Coaches and players have a say in pro-bowl voting so I have to think they are seeing things that we are missing. My biggest issue with Edmunds is that he seems to be getting worse or just not improving much especially in pass coverage. That being said, he and White surprisingly have some similar pass defense numbers and PFF actually grades White's overall play lower at 43.4, so again maybe some of it is how each player is being used. One of Edmunds more glaring flaws to me has been the whiffed tackles, but looking at the pro-football DB on missed tackles and it is a bit surprising where he ranks compared to others - look at Jerry Hughes... https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2020/defense_advanced.htm White is often used closer to the line and plays man coverage on TEs. Frazier has Edmunds often in a shallow middle zone about 8 yards (or deeper) I assume to play center field and defend against short passes and to make stops on dumps and runs. Most of the time I feel like he is just there to tackle guys only after they make the yards they need or more. One area that White did clearly excel over Edmunds is effectiveness on the blitz: Edmunds on 72 blitzes had: 0-hurries, 1-QB knockdown, 2-sacks, 3-pressures White on 91 blitzes had: 3-hurries, 8-QB knockdowns, 9-sacks, 20-pressures Edmunds stat lines do kind of explain why this year it really did not feel like he was trending upwards and taking another step in his development: 2018: 2 INTs, 2 FF, 12 passes defended, 93 Tgts, 635 Yds, 78.5 completion %, 8.7 Yds/Cmp, 80 solo tackles, 41 assisted tackles (121 total) 2019: 1 INTs, 0 FF, 9 passes defended, 52 Tgts, 266 Yds, 65.4 completion %, 7.8 Yds/Cmp, 66 solo tackles, 49 assisted tackles (115 total) 2020: 0 INTs, 0 FF, 3 passes defended, 64 Tgts, 543 Yds, 67.2 completion %, 12.6 Yds/Cmp, 77 solo tackles, 42 assisted tackles (119 total)

A bit of truth here. A healthy Star does not get moved off his spot and helps against the run, but rarely got a lot of push. Beane needs to be scouting for that next Vita Vea kind of Star 2.0 upgrade.

Being fair, I can see the argument that the refs took a KC Int off the board that probably should have stood. The receiver was initiating as much if not more of the contact as the defender. That led to one of those TDs and had it stood it would have put a dent in that QBR storyline. His numbers could have easily changed to something more like 20 of 29 passing for perhaps less than 200 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, and 1 Sack. Not exactly world-beating, but those kind of officiating judgement calls happen and as an opposing team you have to rise above them, and as an offense take advantage of them. The Bucs did and KC didn't.

I think if you look over the history of SB wins you will find that it favors teams that have balanced efficiency on offense and have strong defenses - there are always statistical outliers. By offensive balance, I am not thinking 50/50 run/pass but the ability to successfully take what defenses are giving up - it's efficiency. If efficiency dictates calling more passes because that is what the defense is giving up, then you pass more. The key is effective efficiency. If a team keeps only 4 d-linemen and one LB in the box and you cannot run against it - you are not efficiently running and they can cheat towards coverage all day and take away your passing efficiency as well. Queue the fat lady. By strong defense I mean defenses that do not have to rob Peter to pay Paul. Defenses that do not have to sacrifice coverage to stop the run, or sacrifice stopping the run to effectively pressure and cover receivers. Our coaches did a good job this year maximizing our strengths and covering up for a lot of our weaknesses over the course of an injury-plagued season, but when playing the best teams you can't slap enough lipstick on the pig; They will always expose you.

It is not one or the other. The defense continued to stop KC and that gave TB more confidence on offense. They did not have to press and could continue to mix run and pass. The offense made sure they rewarded the defense by sustaining drives and scoring points. Complimentary football. Brady did not have to play great and his rather pedestrians QB stats back up that argument. However, he is horribly efficient and generally does not make mistakes that will tilt the field and put his defense in a bad position, or take available points off the board. He will throw it away, or just lay on a fumbled snap, or turf the ball at a covered receiver's feet. He does not try to do things that can turn small miscues into momentum changing mistakes. TB's offensive line kept his uniform clean and their running game either moved the chains or helped keep them in manageable down & distance situations allowing them more playbook options. When in striking distance they put up TD's not FGs. Brady does not accomplish this with most teams out there. It is no fluke that he chose Tampa Bay. They had a loaded roster and were just missing that field general behind center.

Good year for o-linemen. Could see Beane nabbing 2 in this draft. Also would not be surprised if he nabs a NT in the draft as they have to be thinking about life without Star and this year it was tough. Star has a 7.6 million cap hit and over 11 million dead cap so they will be hoping for an in shape Star willing to play this season, but I would be grooming a cheap Star 2.0 behind him.

I wonder if they used Vea's likeness to design that character because you are spot on - he's a ringer for it.

I think you mean size and skill. I don't want to see a guy that looks like that 1st guard that flopped on his belly chasing the streaker.

If I am not wrong, I think we are calling that "Process" these days.

The pressure does not always have to come from the ends. It is pressure up the middle that prevents QBs from having a clean pocket or anywhere to step up. Where do they go? They try to escape right or left into the arms of the DE's who really do not have to beat their man, just be in position to clean up. I truly believe Josh with his desire to never give up on a play would have taken a few 30 yard sacks against the Tampa defense because they could have played dime against us all game long with our limp running attack and he would have had no where to go with the ball.

Tampa can run the ball. We cannot stop the run without committing the house. Had a solid TE in Gronk. We cannot stop TE's. Can pressure and stop the run with their front four. Allen has his worst outings against teams that can pressure with 4. Anyone arguing about how much better our o-line would handle Tampa's d-line seem to forget how KC's NT Jones feasted on Mongo. Our interior o-line would have been a train wreck and TB's ends are solid at cleaning up. TB would have kept one LB to spy on Allen and both are fast and strong enough to bring him down. Tampa is strong exactly where we need teams to be weak. Our strength is our receiving core and they were the walking wounded. TB's offense would have held the ball longer and scored forcing Allen into desperation mode. Nope. I love my team, but pretty sure we lose that one.

I won't deny that sideline toss was ridiculous, but folks look at the end of the play and discount the kind of effort and talent KC has at receiver too. Reminded me of that sideline toss Murray made when falling away when we played them that was nearly caught in the corner of their end zone. It was amazing that Mahomes put that much on it and in a spot that only his receiver could make a play on, but it had to be a diving awesome play by the receiver on that scramble drill as well. Would have been a toss and catch that would have had a place in NFL films annals forever. I think Beane and his staff have drastically improved their approach towards receivers, mirroring successful teams like KC. You have to have receivers that are productive pass catchers with sticky hands first and foremost. Their other measurables and times in the "underwear Olympics" are the second thing you evaluate. Successful receivers have to find ways to get open and adjust to throws and make ridiculous catches because most QBs these days have to throw off-platform on the move. That is why ol' Kelvin Benjamin did not make it in KC, on some critical plays he either short-armed them thinking he was going to take a hit (he was), or Mahomes hit him in the face mask on a slightly imperfect pass where he did not adjust his route at all. Bad receivers make even great QB's look pedestrian.

This is very true. Brady turns to steaming hot garbage if his pocket is pushed back into him and he starts to get dirty. That is why NE's offensive line coach for years was one of the absolute best at taking middling talent and turning them into a virtually impenetrable wall - that and the invisible holding-infraction begone zone that surrounded them. Interesting that more Bills fans are seeing that the rare talented offensive weapons are good to have, but most teams that go the distance have good-to-exceptional players in their trenches and have been built from the inside-out. Tampa Bay does not have a Hill - no teams really do. Beane called those kind of players "unicorns" that you just have to stop with good schemes and bracketing. Now that we face the offseason more Bills fans and the brass at OBD are echoing that sentiment about improving our trenches. Shore up with size and talent our o-line from guard to guard, and we need to shore up the interior front 4. I am still not sure if we need to overhaul our defensive ends quite yet... if we get good push up the middle, my bet is that we get a lot more production out of the crop we have. Also, a well-rounded TE who can block and can run the seam and catch the ball seems to be an ingredient common to championship-caliber teams. Interesting how many scoff at the importance of the position when the proof seems to play out every post season.

You made me delete my reply - but you are absolutely correct. They go from a talented very good defense to a great defense that runs like a well-oiled machine with Vea back in the lineup. Not just another fat guy in the middle trying to hold his ground, he is a force that demands o-line attention and double-teams. Before he was injured PFF graded him as one of the best pure 1-tech NTs in the league: https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-tampa-bay-buccaneers-nose-tackle-vita-vea-becoming-one-of-nfls-best-at-the-position That has got to hurt just a bit... 😅

Mahomes, like most QBs, has his go-to players (like Allen has Diggs and Beasley). Those QB/receiver relationships help propel a team, but are also their biggest Achilles heel. You take them away and most QB's get rattled and make mistakes or take sacks. Tampa's LB's did what ours should have. They jammed Kelce off the line, knocked him off the routes and disrupted timing and stuck to him like glue, forcing Mahomes to hold onto the ball or try to force it into coverage. Don't think either of our linebackers can cover and tackle like theirs. They used their 2-deep safeties to bracket Hill so he was not open either. The net result was very Allen-like. Similar defensive philosophy that teams use against Allen - pressure with 4, the rest in coverage. Mahomes did a lot of scrambling around, had some phenomenal passes, but had negative plays and turnovers too that effectively negated those stellar plays. In the end 3 field goals and a frustrated Kelce who was dragging ass by the 4th quarter because he was in a scramble drill for so many plays trying to shake their LB coverage.

Me too, no strong feelings for either team and the gushing over Brady and Mahomes forced me to hit the mute for much of it. Did have some sour grapes for the way they were hitting Allen late and the BS stunts after the whistle. Felt like I was forced to watch someone bully a child that won't fight back. Till we had that "Christmas Story" Ralphie meltdown near the end.

Small? Yes, but It feels cathartic having seen our team pummeled out of contention by KC. I can see why the fans of other teams did that to us during our SB years. We were better than most, but not the best. Did not really hate KC until their defense started doing their impersonation of a Greg Williams' squad.

Maybe now he sees the light. The goat, is not allowed to throw picks or fumble in a SB. It is laid out clearly in Goodell 1:1 Thou shalt not hit the goat, nor suffereth any harm or negative plays to come upon him. Welcome to our decades of hell. Pull up a chair Zerovoltz, there is plenty of room. 😁

He is freakishly strong and quick for his size. Was never a fan of his extracurricular plays after the whistle, but cannot deny he was a terror to block one-on-one.

The other reason those tackles looked like suck is KC could not give them a lot of help because TB's interior DTs have to be double teamed. I think Suh is a POS, but a good article on the value of interior DT's that can stop the run and pressure the passer. https://www.buccaneers.com/news/defense-interior-importance-against-kansas-city-sblv-media-day-ndamukong-suh "Mahomes has the second-best completion percentage against the blitz in 2020, including the postseason, at 68.4%. His 9.5 yards per attempt, 15-0 touchdown to interception ratio and 135.3 passer rating against the blitz rank first. Yeah, Mahomes has a 135.3 passer rating when he sees five or more guys in his face. And the Bucs know that. Even back in Week 12, they only blitzed Mahomes on 17% of his dropbacks, which was the lowest rate in a game under Bowles since he arrived in 2019. But while Mahomes is good against the blitz – he's not as good against pressure. Again, making the distinction between blitzing and pressure. They are not one in the same. Under pressure, Mahomes has a completion percentage of just 48.0%. His passing yards per attempt goes down to 6.3. He's got a 5-1 touchdown to interception rate and his passer rating is down from 116.4 when not facing pressure to 78.7 when he is. Ten of Mahomes' 25 interceptions since 2018 have come against pressure. So clearly, you need to pressure him. But maybe not blitz him… Which is again why a four-man rush that can generate pressure will be so crucial against the Chiefs. The good news is that said four-man rush will now also be helped by nose tackle Vita Vea, who returned against the Packers after a 15-week absence due to a broken ankle. He played 46% of the team's defensive snaps in his first game back and had his presence felt, especially against the run, and in a couple of those sacks stolen by JPP and Barrett. The Bucs are simply a better team with Vea on the field and the Next Gen Stats back that up. Against the run when Vea is on the field the Bucs give up an average of just 2.7 yards per carry. When he isn't, it jumps up to 3.9 yards per carry. Against the pass, the Bucs had a 32.7% quarterback pressure rate and a 10.5% sack rate in 153 dropbacks with Vea on the field. Without Vea, the Bucs have a 26.0% quarterback pressure rate and a 5.9% sack rate. That's a huge difference."

I also saw Kelce cut off his route and reach behind him trying to snag a poor pass, receivers diving to get their hands on balls. I also saw KC receivers make amazing attempts to come back to balls thrown into double coverage. The diving pop-up INT-that-wasn't near the end that the refs said the receiver did not get his hand under was another poor pass that was turfed. Don't get me wrong, Mahomes to me is one of the best off platform passers in the game - especially near the LOS. Sidearm, across his body, through a crowd of defenders, shovel passes, and he usually puts it in an exact area where his receivers can make a play on it. That sideline pass while airborne was freakish and in an area for a diving reception. Would have been a tremendous throw and catch. He also can throw dimes when clean - there were a few beauties tonight as well. However, with the pressure and his sure-handed Kelce safety blanket gone, he made a lot of ill-advised throws where he forced passes into coverage, was off target on more than a few tosses, had 2 turnovers (could have been a lot more), and was unable to drive his team to a TD. At the end of the day: Goat 3 TDs and 0 INTs Mahomes 0 TDs and 2 INTs

I think that the US has to rethink their overall ineffective approach to pandemic response. We need some mechanism where the US on CDC advisement can declare a Federal pandemic emergency that streamlines prevention and vaccination protocols and removes our current fragmented state-by-state management of the response efforts. It has been a cluster ****