WideNine

That is what you said and no, the Union did not get the final say. That link I provided was the ruling made before the State appealed. The teachers union lost in appellate court against Gov. Ron DeSantis and Education Commissioner Richard Corcoran and schools reopened. So final say seemed to remain with the state. https://health.wusf.usf.edu/health-news-florida/2020-12-02/appeals-court-refuses-to-revisit-florida-school-reopening-ruling Now I guess teachers could just quit or go on strike, but that is a different kind of final say.

This feed seems to have more realistic information. They (India) are getting a handle on their cases considering where they were at and that is cause for hope. A more rational explanation is that they have had a robust vaccination effort. Ours has been a bit of a hodge-podge state-by-state cluster ****, but is picking up steam....finally.

Just thought I would take a dip into all these sketch twitter feeds from bizarre conspiracy sites and cons. India - 100% immunity using vitamins??? Vendanta Empire is a reference to a messianic human reincarnation of a divine being. Re: Principia Scientific International From media bias fact site: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/principia-scientific-international/ Overall, we rate Principia Scientific International (PSI) a strong conspiracy and Pseudoscience website that promotes anti-vaccine propaganda and frequent misinformation regarding climate change. Detailed Report Factual Reporting: LOW Country: United Kingdom World Press Freedom Rank: UK 35/180 Founded by John O'Sullivan More on this guy - In a libel lawsuit O’Sullivan made a series of false claims, including: that he was an attorney with more than a decade of successful litigation in New York State and Federal courts; that he was employed by a major Victoria, B.C. (Canada) law firm that is representing Ball in the libel action; that he is a widely published writer, with credits in Forbes and the National Review; that he had received his law degree from the University College, Cork, Ireland and/or from the University of Surrey (O’Sullivan’s actual legal accreditation, apparently obtained after the Mann-Ball action commenced, comes from an online degree mill, Hill University, which promises delivery in two weeks); that he is a member of the American Bar Association. One affidavit includes an online comment in which O’Sullivan says, “For your information, I am a retired academic and I have litigated personally or assisted others in pro se litigation at every level of court there is in New York State as well as Federal level, for over a decade and never lost.” Although O’Sullivan admits in this particular comment that he is not, in fact, licensed to practice law, in the U.S. or the U.K., he adds, “I’m just some Brit with a brain who can go live with his American wife in her country and kick ass big time around a courtroom.” So... basically another conman leveraging social media to dupe the gullible.

It's not an argument if I am just correcting what appears to be an oversimplification and/or misstating facts. Apparently states have the final say whether schools can reopen unless of course they are sued. Which was the case in Florida, then the FINAL "final say" went before a judge to render a verdict. https://www.clickorlando.com/news/local/2020/08/24/judge-sides-with-florida-teachers-union-says-districts-should-decide-if-schools-should-reopen/

Maybe you are referring to "MSN" which is not really a news outlet. So your angst is directed at a "content aggregater". So a site that collects news articles from various news sources and delivers them probably based on interest trends and click counts. This was their 2nd top rated corona virus story when I just checked. https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2021-02-25/new-coronavirus-variant-found-in-new-york-city You are trying too hard to manufacture a narrative that simply is not true.

Would it be more accurate to say state entities working with local teachers unions. In my state it looks like a combination of state health and education departments coordinating and arbitrating with teacher unions to reach a consensus plan. Sounds like state entities have a lion's share of the decision. If unions had an arbitrary jurisdiction, they would not be suing various states over their decisions to reopen schools right? https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-s-largest-teachers-union-files-suit-against-state-over-n1234382

It is not just liberals that questioned the sanity of opening schools during a pandemic. Maybe teachers and their unions pushed back with good reason too. You cherry pick evidence pulled from studies. Studies take time, but for dumb, self-serving politicians and their ignorant drones they look at studies after the fact and say "see, no caution needed. We had a gut feeling this would work out." Even with schools "opening" folks like you seem to want to overlook all the new protocols "open" entails. Just in my child's district: Staggered on-site days. Just 2 days a week in our district. Over the summer the facilities department had to overhaul the hvac systems. Facilities also tried every configuration imaginable and could only get half the seating per class following CDC guidance for safe distancing hence the staggered attendance schedule. Entrances were limited and patrolled by teachers or volunteers that screen kids for fevers and signs of being sick upon entry. Markers were sprayed "paw prints for my daughter's school" to reinforce social distancing and to help kids stay in their lane. Masks are worn all day. Bathroom use is limited to a single child at a time. Drinking fountains are off-limits so kids are encouraged to bring their own water bottles or are given bottled water if they forget. Strict hand sanitizer use and each kid has to pitch in to sanitize their desks at the end of each bell period. Safety training curriculum around all these changes was developed. Students and parents had to take the training and sign off on it and school liability waivers. With all that, if community spread hits a certain threshold, we are back to distance learning full time. So yes, they are relatively safely open. So what is your point?

At this point I just don't know. We have already screwed the pooch getting this under control where we may have had a chance.... This new varient seems to evade current vaccines. They may have to work on tweaking the recipe or test vaccines other than the Pfizer and Moderna for efficacy. Sucks.

Folks want to argue about state-by-state policies and how effective lax vs stringent policies were when in reality the US as a whole just needed to be more united in our efforts to lower infection rates. Living in a state with strict policies I can attest that folks stubbornly walked around without masks or social distancing and they were vocal about it being a political statement. So hard to blame policies for failure when Americans don't have the grit or will to follow them. My concern has always been mutations that would make Covid-19 more transmissable and/or lethal. The more infections circulating the more opportunities for the virus to evolve...it is just a simple numbers game with random mutations. We have heard of variants arising from countries with poor pandemic containment, UK variants, Brazil variants, and now the "California" US variant? Study links the dramatic rise in cases in CA the past few months to a new more deadly variant...will likely account up to 90% of cases by the end of next month. https://ktla.com/news/california/the-devil-is-already-here-coronavirus-variant-in-california-looks-increasingly-dangerous/ Is what it is.

That's fair. At a minimum there needs to be a lot of reform where the union protects poor performing individuals and practices from course-correction. I wonder how much pressure the Janus decision and growing charter school memberships will help move the needle - food for thought.

Maybe not argue, but to quote Carroll, you've lost your "muchness". 😁 Basically, your dialogue lacks any can-do attitude. It is all the ways things won't or cannot work. Am I to take from that, that you are satisfied with public schools the way they are because you feel that change is not possible? If so, we probably do not have a lot of potential remedial actions to discuss. If not, what are your suggestions for positive change that are attainable and how would you suggest they be implemented?

I did too. Parents plan B when they moved for work from WNY to NJ. Too many fights and trouble at my new high school had me talking about how Jersey sucked and I was going to drop out. Sent me to a religious school with shirt, tie, the works. Thought there was no way, but when all the kids around you are in the same boat - meh. We got used to the unis. Sure cliques still form, but I don't remember sweating what I was going to wear - ever. Less distractions... I recall my son when I was picking him up from a practice at his public HS complaining like an old man about decaying moral standards and how the young women "these days" should not be prancing around in yoga pants. I laughed and asked him if it was distracting... "very" was his response 😂 The kid always was an old soul trapped in a young guy's body.

I agree that if parents have the time and the acumen and speak the language then yes, they can adequately tutor what used to be taught in a classroom. https://www.edutopia.org/article/whats-right-amount-homework In MN my daughter in elementary school had up to 2 hours of homework every night, till I put my foot down and confronted the school. I have a gung-ho humanities teacher that has had up to 5 hours of assignments for my 6th grader. I know because I had to painstakingly work through all of them with my daughter. If her teacher had any clue where she is at academically she would not be assigning what she does in the volume she does. They are disconnected and fairly clueless regarding the educational gaps each student has because they are not actually teaching material in the classroom. They are largely reciting in class then dumping assignments with the expectation that parents can fill the comprehension gaps. Interesting that when I was growing up my parents had little to no involvement with school. They just wanted to see that report card and if there was a problem there were parent/teacher conferences. With both of them working long hours there was little left in the tank at night to tutor me.

You seem very keen to argue. Once again, I NEVER said teachers make the schedule. Not sure where your reading comprehension gaps are coming from. And yes, the counselor at my daughter's school did not craft her schedule so based on your information it must have been an administration function done elsewhere. Second, I have looked into the pros and cons of merit-based teaching. It is good to hear your take and learn more about the nuances of what the unions have bargained for in various districts. Works in some places and in others it has not. It is actually in use in some, but it is a small percentage. Sounds like a tool that could improve performance if implemented judiciously and as more of a broad federal guideline rather than the result of patchwork state-by-state district-by-district arbitration agreements. https://www.educationnext.org/in-the-united-states-merit-pay-plans-for-teachers-are-few-and-far-between/ Not cherry-picking, was asking if you had a study you could reference that shows no performance improvements for schools with a uniform dress code. I only ask because you seemed so sure that there wasn't any. And I was curious because the practice seems so common outside the US so wondering if there there was a perception of an educational edge by having that policy.

where to begin unpacking this.... First, I believe I said "school" and not "teacher" when referencing them being unable to provision my daughter's schedule. I believe we were discussing the brick and mortar institution as a whole not just teachers. Also my daughter's middle school only has one counselor let alone having a counseling office, so I do not believe this "office creating schedules" is standard across all schools for lower K-12 grades. I expect the local HS does have a more active academic counseling dept. Second, if changing the teaching union is what it takes then that may well be where the discussion starts. I am not sure how much teachers would oppose merit systems if they were allowed more say in tailoring their education plans to student needs. I also find that State and Federal funding could be used to reward merit and could influence discussions as well. Finally, regarding uniforms, what studies have you looked at that prove that uniforms make little measurable difference in education outcomes - any links? This is a curiosity for me since so many other countries with better schools practice this simple measure.

I do agree that we spend far too much time on the nice-to-haves and too little prescriptive efforts on effective education mission. My daughter's school has a list of extra-curricular social programs they are involved in yet they cannot even get the basic logistics of class schedules sent out on time and accurate. I am not one for reinventing the wheel, but if studies show that there are other countries that are doing better while spending less per student, what can we learn from what they are doing to apply to our efforts here in the States. I am not one to drone on about America being the greatest if we are getting spanked by other nations on standardized testing that have been used for ranking. The studies I have looked into show that those countries doing well often pay teachers much more, but are highly selective - only the best of the best get the gigs. Teachers have post-graduate degrees and have to beat out other teachers to get a shot at teaching in their public education system. It is very competitive; I don't think we can say the same thing about how we think about education here and how we select and hire teachers in the US. Another odd difference I have noticed is that many schools abroad also promote uniforms. Uniforms are cheaper than the latest fashions each year and families with less means usually can still afford them. I think they help blur the lines between socioeconomic gaps that can fuel weird cliques and divisive popularity contests. Youth spend less time worrying about how to impress each other over fashion and focus more on studies. Having traveled abroad, we are one of the few nations I see that really don't promote this as part of a new education vision. Private schools in the States often do, but I think the few public districts that have tried (in one case to cut down on gang-specific attire) and folks blew a gasket... what about my child's freedom of expression - yada yada....

Funding is not everything, on that we can agree. My point is that systems and guidance adopted over the past 50 years largely have not closed the education gap between us and comparable nations. In many studies we are right where we started in our ranking if not lower. We are still woefully below average, so there should be room to rethink our brick and mortar education strategies, tools used, and investment in teachers Folks forget that there had been waves of teacher union strikes before Covid hit. Seems to have been put on the back burner since, but better pay is still a lingering underlying issue.

When my son got into HS they gave all of us parents a big speech about letting go and letting them become more responsible. Then, when he had not taken a test that made up a large portion of his grade and was dodging them at school, they started hounding the wife and me. We told them to fail him. We explained that they are not teaching or preparing him for life if he learns that not doing the work carries no repercussions. No one hounds these kids about missing assignments and tests when (and if) they go to college. They want to sleep thru classes, fine. Colleges will take your money and fail you with no ***** to give. The HS couldn't though, because failing kids impacts funding. They found a way to pass him any way and my kid was smug about calling their bluff and gaming the bizarre system we have today.

It's a mix like most things are. For many parents I talk to the first or second thing they mention is asking how are they expected to juggle a work schedule with their kids at home during the day. Not to recognize this as a major friction point and public service schools provision is disingenuous. When we get past the superlatives of calling teachers heroes while cutting their pay, supporting "one size fits all" rigid state and federal academic guidance, and reducing programs for struggling kids who they dare not fail or they impact the limited funding they get, we find that for some it is their muse and they are trying their best and for others I have met, not so much.

That is why I said that schools have largely turned into daycares as their primary mission - at least in the lower grades. But that is a different core mission from education that folks need to just be up front about. I get it. The wife and I both worked and we paid for a daycare co-located at the school for after school care because commutes coming back from work for both of us were unpredictable.

I was not referring to technology in a narrow programming sense. Just using presentation and communication technology tools effectively. Running meetings virtual and remote. Building a product. Technology tool proficiencies that most businesses expect from new employees My son was able to go a program during his highschool that took him out of the dated rote learning. He and his peers did business intern support. Learned about credit and practical budgeting. They reworked a charity website and did a marketing campaign and had business leader guest speakers. Felt he learned more those last two years to apply knowledge in a practical way than he would have otherwise.

I did not come up with brick and morter schools are outdated for the sake of a Covid debate. The wife and I have thought and talked about this for the past 8-10 years. That topic could probably be something that could have it's own thread, but even with in-person schooling during a pandemic folks need to be more honest. Schools still close if there is a local outbreak. When kids go, they are in smaller cohorts so they can maintain social distancing, wearing masks, and using strict seating assignments so they can do contact tracing when one falls ill. It is not like Covid works differently in Florida. We have the same CDC guidance on the West Coast and kids are back in our district, but staggered in smaller groups. Our schools were already overpopulated with too many kids/class before Covid so they have to stagger the days now unless they want to pack them in like sardines.

Brick and morter schools have been outdated for some time. I don't think the legacy model prepares kids well for college or for life. While much of the rest of the working world evolved to leverage remote networking and office automation tools as well as virtual teams and meetings our schools were decades behind stuck in a 1990's model. Sure they throw iPads and such at them, but they really never leverages technology in a meaningful way that would build skills that kids will need later in many workplaces. Large campuses and too many kids crammed into classrooms with too few teachers pushing paper around. Costing tax payers a premium to operate and maintain. If anything, what folks are missing most is their schools providing a daycare service. That, and the sport venues. Not sure my daughter is getting a worse education out of this, but does miss the social stuff. If anything I have more insight into how bad the teaching is. I watched a lady stare a hole through her for 5 minutes while she was crying saying she didn't understand a question in one of her remote Zoom classes. Wanted to see how long that would last, but finally couldn't take it anymore and thought "enough" and stepped into the camera. It was like I poked her teacher in the ass and she was all "oh, do you need help dear?".... Seriously? Teachers around here are all about getting the kids back into the class and a lot if it is that parents have pulled back the curtain and are more WTF about teaching methods and standards and calling them on it. If anything Covid has forced teachers and schools to actually use more of the technology and tools they have had access to for quite some time, but were stubbornly refusing to leverage.

DeSantis needs to explain how great this plan was to all the Fla. teachers who have died from Covid-19 https://feaweb.org/covid19/fea-safe-schools-report/

Trump came in there was a 19 Trillion dollar deficit. He left us with 28 Trillion. Yeah, he sure paved the way to a balanced budget. This talking point from advocates of either party is lame.